IKE QUEBEC

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Anyone know the story behind these two sessions remaining unreleased. Hard to imagine why they missed surfacing during 'the great vault emancipation' of the late 80's-90's.

Could they possibly be that bad? I mean 2 attempts at the same session by these players. Seems strange.

Ike Quebec Quintet

Ike Quebec (ts) Freddie Roach (org) Grant Green (g) Butch Warren (b) Wilbert Hogan (d)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, May 25, 1962

Sonny Boy Blue Note rejected

Take Your Shoes Off -

Cop 'N Blo -

Early Morning Shuffle -

Travelin' -

Born To Be Blue -

Throwing A Brick -

Ike Quebec Quintet

same personnel

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, June 1, 1962

tk.8 Take Your Shoes Off Blue Note rejected

tk.13 Cop 'N Blo -

tk.20 Sonny Boy -

tk.32 Throwing A Brick -

tk.40 Early Morning Shuffle -

tk.44 Travelin' -

From what I have heard, only Grant Green is truly "on" for these sessions. The rest of the band has some trouble. Good, but not great and I can see why Blue Note didn't issue it.

So what status and purpose do these original tapes serve now if they will never see the light of day. If Lion and Quebec deemed them rejected at the time, why were the session tapes not destroyed instead of being archived for all these years?

To give us something to complain about.

Actually, I'd rather them be stored than destroyed like the tapes from Horace Silver's "Live At Pep's" recording session.

[jazzbo]

Or that studio session of Horace Silver's.

Though I'm not sure there IS a Blue Note reissue program at the moment, as long as Michael Cuscuna is involved in the program we are not likely to see these rejected sessions. He has striven all these years to uphold and honor the decisions made by Alfred Lion, and I don't see him reversing this position. . . . . It's an admirable position to hold.

Edited May 18, 2012 by jazzbo

[David Ayers]

All that and defending the Alamo.

[JETman]

All that and defending the Alamo.

You know as much about defending the Alamo as I know about disassembling Big Ben!

[JSngry]

Time to call in Phil Collins!

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

So Alfred and Ike decided against release. I would say this is probably an informed decision.

Yes, maybe. But I have a more than sneaky feeling that Mr Cuscuna dislikes Freddie Roach. The only Roach LP that was reissued by BN USA was "Good move" and surely that was because Hank Mobley was on it. That's the least Roach-like of all the Roach albums.

MG

[J.A.W.]

So Alfred and Ike decided against release. I would say this is probably an informed decision.

Yes, maybe. But I have a more than sneaky feeling that Mr Cuscuna dislikes Freddie Roach. The only Roach LP that was reissued by BN USA was "Good move" and surely that was because Hank Mobley was on it. That's the least Roach-like of all the Roach albums.

MG

Pure speculation. You know how this thing works: next time someone will post something like "MC doesn't like Freddie Roach" as a fact.

Why not ask him directly? He can be contacted via Mosaic.

Edited May 18, 2012 by J.A.W.

[danasgoodstuff]

Or that studio session of Horace Silver's.

Though I'm not sure there IS a Blue Note reissue program at the moment, as long as Michael Cuscuna is involved in the program we are not likely to see these rejected sessions. He has striven all these years to uphold and honor the decisions made by Alfred Lion, and I don't see him reversing this position. . . . . It's an admirable position to hold.

Generally true, BUT some 'rejected' sessions have seen the light of day, either in whole or in part (and some merely 'unreleased' ones haven't, so?)...

[danasgoodstuff]

OK, I change my vote to the Born to Be Blue session with S. Clark & G. Green, not sure about optimum running order though...

[robertoart]

Anyone know the story behind these two sessions remaining unreleased. Hard to imagine why they missed surfacing during 'the great vault emancipation' of the late 80's-90's.

Could they possibly be that bad? I mean 2 attempts at the same session by these players. Seems strange.

Ike Quebec Quintet

Ike Quebec (ts) Freddie Roach (org) Grant Green (g) Butch Warren (b) Wilbert Hogan (d)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, May 25, 1962

Sonny Boy Blue Note rejected

Take Your Shoes Off -

Cop 'N Blo -

Early Morning Shuffle -

Travelin' -

Born To Be Blue -

Throwing A Brick -

Ike Quebec Quintet

same personnel

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, June 1, 1962

tk.8 Take Your Shoes Off Blue Note rejected

tk.13 Cop 'N Blo -

tk.20 Sonny Boy -

tk.32 Throwing A Brick -

tk.40 Early Morning Shuffle -

tk.44 Travelin' -

From what I have heard, only Grant Green is truly "on" for these sessions. The rest of the band has some trouble. Good, but not great and I can see why Blue Note didn't issue it.

So what status and purpose do these original tapes serve now if they will never see the light of day. If Lion and Quebec deemed them rejected at the time, why were the session tapes not destroyed instead of being archived for all these years?

To give us something to complain about.

Actually, I'd rather them be stored than destroyed like the tapes from Horace Silver's "Live At Pep's" recording session.

Of course I'd rather them be stored as well. But to play the devils advocate - is it not equally disrespectful to the wishes of Lion/Quebec to have a rejected session 'circulating' among aficionados, as much as it is to have it out in the 'open' market. I suppose the counter argument is that 'aficionados' will be more knowledgeable about the context and merits of Quebec's artistry from an overall perspective. Whereas a 'novice' listener stumbling upon the recording might consider such a sub-par session as 'definitive' of Quebec's legacy.

However, where does respecting the wishes of the artist and producer begin and end - with not having it officially released, or not having it heard at all.

[clifford_thornton]

Having an archive doesn't mean that the public has a right to hear/experience all the material. One has to separate the need for preservation of the cultural record from some sort of hypothetical unlimited public access.

[robertoart]

Having an archive doesn't mean that the public has a right to hear/experience all the material. One has to separate the need for preservation of the cultural record from some sort of hypothetical unlimited public access.

Oh sure this is true. Time will inevitably change the way future custodians of the cultural record will view things anyway. The jazz legacy is unfortunately at the mercy of corporations now, which is different to the way other cultural treasures like Visual Art are kept. Art for the most part is held within civic collections. And is actually accessible to anyone that is willing to take the necessary steps to gain access to it, even if the institution has it on public display or not. So I would suggest the cultural record in terms of Jazz heritage is far from being at a level of optimum preservation, despite the efforts of devotees to be essentially 'trojan horses' in a transparently mercantile industry.

[Bluesnik]

the 45 sessions and the swingtets are two of my favourites. specially the swingtets.

[Guy Berger]

So I've been making my way through the 45 sessions - have listened to the the first two sets, from 1959 and 1960. They are MAGNIFICENT. Wow. Highly recommended.