The duds.

[Rooster_Ties]

Bitches' Brew is just a rip-off of Larry Young's Mother Ship anyway.

Bertrand.

[Morganized]

I'm pretty much mostly in the camp that likes "New and Old Gospel". Not that I would whole-heartedly recommend it to everyone, but for those with open-minded ears, this is a pretty darn interesting album.

Gee Rooster,

Last time I checked I think my ears were pretty "open minded" but guess I'll have to check it out again just to make sure. I love most of Jackie's work and always find him pushing the boundry of creativity. I think this was just such an attempt. Unfortunately for me, I just don't think it seems to work. Compared to some of his other work there seems to be a little tentativeness in his and Ornette's exchange.

Just my opinion. I will listen again with those "open minded" ears and see if I hear anything different!

[JSngry]

I'm pretty much mostly in the camp that likes "New and Old Gospel".

Same here. The rhythm section catches fire, Jackie is rawer than fresh meat, and Ornette's trumpet playing sounds like he shedded for the gig.

[Morganized]

I'm pretty much mostly in the camp that likes "New and Old Gospel".

Same here. The rhythm section catches fire, Jackie is rawer than fresh meat, and Ornette's trumpet playing sounds like he shedded for the gig.

OK, OK.....I'm pulling it out again right now to see what I'm missing.

And thanks Free for All. Looks like there are equally strong opinions on the other side.

That's what I love about this board!

[Nate Dorward]

Hey, New & Old Gospel's just fine--one of Ornette's better trumpet outings. The title-track's a good tune, too.

Bad'uns:

Yosuke Yamashita, Asian Games--horrible Laswell-produced effort with Yamashita on synths throughout. The only bad Yamashita disc I've heard.

Cecil Taylor--I'm told the meeting with Mary Lou Williams is (as they say) "interesting" but nonetheless a terrible mismatch. I haven't heard that so I'll go with the Taylor/Dixon/Oxley meeting on Victo--47 minutes of Bill blowing raspberries while Cecil & Tony do their best to coax him out of his shell.

John Zorn's "Mystic Fugu Orchestra", Zohar--20-odd minutes of Zorn & Eye pretending to be doddering rabbis.

Derek Bailey/Pat Metheny, Sign of 4. This is a disc which should only be acquired with great caution because most 2ndhand record stores, I've found, refuse to buy it, because it's a disc returned by virtually everyone who purchases it. I did manage to trade it away to a correspondent after years of trying to ditch it.

David S Ware, Threads. I probably have dissed this one enough, but it still is a bona fide clunker.

William Parker/Hamid Drake/Joe Morris, Eloping with the Sun. Desultory "ethnic" jam session, with Joe on banjo & banjouke for the duration.

Evan Parker/Han Bennink, The Grass Is Greener. 'Cause nothing much happens.

[clifford_thornton]

I BET BOOBY W/ STRINGS IS A SPLENDID AFFAIR.

I like my boobies with no strings attached, personally...

[Jazzmoose]

Derek Bailey/Pat Metheny, Sign of 4. This is a disc which should only be acquired with great caution because most 2ndhand record stores, I've found, refuse to buy it, because it's a disc returned by virtually everyone who purchases it. I did manage to trade it away to a correspondent after years of trying to ditch it.

Please never mention this one again. Every time I hear about it, I get a little more curious...

[GregK]

Please never mention this one again. Every time I hear about it, I get a little more curious...

[Brad]

Did Bird ever put out a bad record? Although strings may not be to everyone's fancy, he never did a bad one.

[Nate Dorward]

Squelch that curiosity about Sign of 4 if you can. It's a waste of time, despite what some critics say (e.g. four stars in Cook/Morton). But if you're genuinely looking for a copy you probably won't have much of a problem finding someone happy to ditch a copy. Ditto Metheny's awful solo disc Zero Tolerance for Silence.

Bird? The infamous Lover Man/Gypsy/Max Making Wax/Bebop session was hardly his shining hour--the spaced-out ballads & slurred uptempo pieces.

[cliffpeterson]

jack de johnette-zebra

jackie mclean-antiquity on steeplechase with michael carvin

phil woods-the lp which has never been reissued where he plays greek music and/or with greek musicians.

john coltrane-om

cassandra wilson-jump and dance to the drums

[MartyJazz]

Sonny Rollins "The Solo Album." I was so dissappointed by this. Sounds like he didn't think about the date at all, and just showed up and warmed up, kinda, for an hour. No connected thoughts or anything. Really bad.

I was at the Museum of Modern Art back in July '85 when Sonny performed this session that was recorded by Milestone. Lots of musicians were present in the audience, Charles McPherson for one stood on line right next to me and we had a great conversation going in. Yeah, I missed a rhythm section that evening, but Sonny's power and creativity did come through and the audience was highly appreciative.

I think Sonny, whom I revere (check out my avatar) has made worse recordings for Milestone, e.g., "The Way I Feel". He must have felt like shit that day

[bertrand]

Antiquity is a great record - it's definitely different, so it might not be to everyone's tast, but it is not a dud.

Steve Slagle told me it's one of his top ten records of all time.

Bertrand.

[JSngry]

I think Sonny, whom I revere (check out my avatar) has made worse recordings for Milestone, e.g., "The Way I Feel". He must have felt like shit that day

Yeah, I almost sent Lucille a sympathy card and flowers...

[Aggie87]

I've got Cassandra's "Dance to the Drums" as well, and it's definitely not her best work, but it's not as bad as her live album on JMT, in my opinion. Cool cover, but I can't recommend anything else about it.

And to add another to the list, Charlie Haden's "American Dreams" - coulda been great with that supporting cast...

[Dave James]

There were periods in Chet Baker's life when if you'd asked him to record My Funny Valentine with a kazoo orchestra and children's chorus, he'd just have wanted to know where, when and how much. If you've read the rather troubling Baker bio by James Gavin, you'll certainly know that Chet was driven by many things, few of which had to do with his music.

As to the issue at hand, "duds", how about Art Blakey's "Hold On I'm Comin'"? It was made up of Messenger-ized renditions of tunes like "Monday, Monday", "Walkin' My Cat Named Dog" and my own personal favorite, "Secret Agent Man". Ouch!!!

Up over and out.

[ajf67]

I was at the Museum of Modern Art back in July '85 when Sonny performed this session that was recorded by Milestone. Lots of musicians were present in the audience, Charles McPherson for one stood on line right next to me and we had a great conversation going in. Yeah, I missed a rhythm section that evening, but Sonny's power and creativity did come through and the audience was highly appreciative.

I think Sonny, whom I revere (check out my avatar) has made worse recordings for Milestone, e.g., "The Way I Feel". He must have felt like shit that day [biggrin.gif]

I'm a huge Sonny Rollins fan also, and have seen him live and loved him. It's not the absense of the rythm section on this that gets me, its just that for me he doesn't seem to take the music anywhere, or at least anywhere that I have been able to get into. Which is what made it dissappointing for me. And I came to this with very high expectations, so that might have something to do with it too. And as you mentioned, the crowd is obviously appreciative on the recording, so it obnviously was "gettable" for some folks.

Has he done any other solo recordings?

[Chuck Nessa]

I'm pretty much mostly in the camp that likes "New and Old Gospel". Not that I would whole-heartedly recommend it to everyone, but for those with open-minded ears, this is a pretty darn interesting album.

From my perspective, this was the best of Jackie's working bands (not many of those). I am not a big Moncur fan and admire some of these dates in spite of GM III. Not a JJ fan either - so shoot me.