Jimmy Raney

[7/4]

[Cliff Englewood]

I love the pictures of that ES-150, what a great axe!!!

Been enjoying this one, via the Brookmeyer Select:

And this one, although it's not on the Select, it should have been, it just should:

Would love to hear this, as Zoot is in the mix, it would probably be as good as the stuff with Getz:

This one can't be too bad either:

Edited May 7, 2008 by Cliff Englewood

[7/4]

I love the pictures of that ES-150, what a great axe!!!

I've never played one, I'm curious. Here's two of 'em:

Edited May 7, 2008 by 7/4

[7/4]

and another, this one has the Charlie Christian p/u like Raney's gtr:

[Larry Kart]

"Two Jims and a Zoot" is at times a bit too bossa-nova-ish and laid back for my tastes, but there's some great playing here. In particular, Hall's tune "Movin' Out" has some of best Raney there is; I've virtually memorized his solo without intending to but am thrilled anew each time I listen to it. The young Steve Swallow is a big asset.

[Cliff Englewood]

I've never played one, I'm curious.

7/4, not only have I never played one, I've never even seen one!!! I'd love to have a go on one though, just because.

What I meant was as that particular ES-150 was his main axe during his prime years, it must have been one hell of a guitar. I mean he must have had to have it refretted after those Storyville sessions with Stan the Man Getz, which oddly enough, no one has mentioned in this thread.

What's the tune they play again that's actually faster than Bird's "Koko", or something to that effect. I think it was mentioned in the Getz Biog.

Small bit of info. on Jimmy here.

[Joe G]

No time to collect my thoughts now but I put a band together for the Chicago Jazz Festival with Raney, Lou Levy and Warne Marsh. It should have "killed". Odd outcome to say the least. More later if someone prods me.

I listened to the tapes recently and was dismayed.

Anything you'd like to share about Raney would be appreciated by me.

~

Getting ready to dig into the Play Duets cd with some of my students. Sounds like big fun to me!

[Cliff Englewood]

Got this one recently, only had a chance to listen to it once, was quietly impressed, doesn't seem as "flash" as his earlier stuff, more thoughful and restrained although that could be something to do with his age/heraring.

[AllenLowe]

Al Haig once told me that Rainey was "a nut." Well, I liked Al, but you know the old saying about the pot and the kettle -

Edited October 29, 2008 by AllenLowe

[Big Beat Steve]

This thread and the other guitar recommendation thread running concurrently made me pull out that Al Haig/Jimmy Raney "Stirings Attached" album on Choice (rec. 1974) again.

While I have a fair number of Jimmy Raney's 50s recordings (along with those by numerous other 50s jazz guitar greats), somehow I talways shied away from buying much more recent (well, relatively recent by now) albums, and listening to this one reminded me why:

While the piano/guitar interplay is fine, I somehow cannot manage to "listen through" those bass lines (Jamil Nasser in this case). Somehow all that droning, resonating busybody bass style on those 70s non-horn small-group jazz recordings really gets in the way of the other instruments IMHO (this album is not the only one where this bugs me). Maybe I'm just too much tuned to 50s-style jazz bass playing or maybe all that busybody, every-man-for-himself-because-I-am-a-soloist-at-all-times-too attitude among bassists was just a sign of the (70s) times but it does bug me. The pulse and foundation of the music just seems to go missing at times. A real pity for on some tracks it tends to crowd out Jimmy Raney's and Al Haig's playing here.

Just my 2c ...

Edited October 29, 2008 by Big Beat Steve

[Joe G]

Got this one recently, only had a chance to listen to it once, was quietly impressed, doesn't seem as "flash" as his earlier stuff, more thoughful and restrained although that could be something to do with his age/heraring.

Man that's a great cover. Not pretty, by any means, but it is real.

[Joe G]

Although you might think he was trying to get his Gibson to take a drag.

[7/4]

ES-175 instead of a ES-150 and he's got those hip boots on too!

.

[Joe G]

And monster sideburns!

[AllenLowe]

a friend of mine's got one of those old Gibson's with the original P90s - nice guitar, every "woody," but, honestly, you can get the same sound with a new and well-made hollowbody electric and Lollar P90s that measure at about 6-7K -

as for Strings Attached, problem in those days was that every engineer was recording the bass direct, and that gave it this weird buzzy thick sound - Jamil is/was a fine bass player, but I think, also, he was tired of fighting loud rhythm sections and so also tended to turn things up and rely upon a mediocre amp -

[michel1969]

René Thomas played a non cutaway ES 150 (then switched for an es 175) This is a special soud, strong and dry. Nothing to compare with very wide bodies like Super 400, for axample. Don't know anyway if his ES 150 had soap bar or older charlie C p'ups ? Anyone know that ?

[7/4]

René Thomas played a non cutaway ES 150 (then switched for an es 175) This is a special soud, strong and dry. Nothing to compare with very wide bodies like Super 400, for axample. Don't know anyway if his ES 150 had soap bar or older charlie C p'ups ? Anyone know that ?

I thought that a soap bar pickup (aka p-90) and a Charlie Christian were almost the same thing.

CC pickup:

later photos with an ES175 show humbuckers.

Edited October 29, 2008 by 7/4

[AllenLowe]

different animals with certain similarities - P90s are a little guttier, the CC a little plumper -

sorry for the scientific terminology -

[7/4]

different animals with certain similarities - P90s are a little guttier, the CC a little plumper -

sorry for the scientific terminology -

So a P90 has a bit more grit, a bit more edge?

I've thought about a P90 for my Epi Joe Pass.

[AllenLowe]

defnitely grittier - I would be careful which kind of P90 you get, as current-make ceramics are just loud and splashy - I like Jason Lollar's 1950s style alnico P90s - plenty of grit but not enormous output - sounds like a nice old Goldtop. Mine is only about 6K, but most people like them stronger. At 6k there's lots of old blues feel, but not that exaggerated heavy-metal splash, and you can still play it through a low power tube amp - of course these are just my preferences -

[7/4]

defnitely grittier - I would be careful which kind of P90 you get, as current-make ceramics are just loud and splashy - I like Jason Lollar's 1950s style alnico P90s - plenty of grit but not enormous output - sounds like a nice old Goldtop. Mine is only about 6K, but most people like them stronger. At 6k there's lots of old blues feel, but not that exaggerated heavy-metal splash, and you can still play it through a low power tube amp - of course these are just my preferences -

Thanks. I'm not exactly in the market right now, maybe after new years. I like low output for this.

[7/4]

Keeping in mind that a pair of $90 pickups cost almost as much as the guitar did.

.

[Jim R]

and another, this one has the Charlie Christian p/u like Raney's gtr:

That's an ES-250, which was a short-lived (1938-1940), fancier version (inlays, binding, tailpiece, 17" body, etc) of the 150. It was basically an experimental model, which went through a number of changes in its short life span. Charlie Christian used a couple of them, T-Bone Walker had one, Tal Farlow had a modified example for awhile, and there were a few others, but those are EXTREMELY rare. I got one (previously owned by Harold Bradley) from George Gruhn in 1990, and at the time he told me that there were probably no more than 20 or so ever built. In my networking, I've only ever seen/heard about a dozen or so.

[7/4]

Thanks!

I learned something new!

[Jim R]

7/4, you're very welcome. You know I enjoy talking guitars.

different animals with certain similarities - P90s are a little guttier, the CC a little plumper -

sorry for the scientific terminology -

Guys, check this out: Charlie Christian pickup essay

Both great pickups, but for my money, there's nothing like a CC.