Underrated non-BN dates from 1965 thru early 70's

[Rooster_Ties]

1965 to 1970 is probably my favorite half-decade of jazz (I know, that's six years, so sue me ).

I certainly don't like everything recorded during this era, but the quirky "inside/outside" stuff that I like the most, seems to come from these years. You know, 'progressive', but not quite 'free', and sometimes 'groovy', or 'progressive' and 'groovy' at the same time!!

What are some of your favorite 'underrated' recordings from the last half of the 60's?? (Let's leave BN out of the mix, for the most part, cuz in varying degrees, we've all been there, and done that.)

And yeah, let's include 1970 too. Or heck -- how about the really early 70's too -- in so much as the suggestions fit in with the rest of the discussion. (Absolute cut-off is about 1975.)

Edited April 1, 2005 by Rooster_Ties

[Eric]

well, this is gonna be random but:

Clarke/Boland Big Band - not really out, but they put together a ton of good stuff in this era

Stanley Turrentine - Sugar or Best of CTI - there is a certain "authority" on some of these tracks that stands out even more than on his BN stuff - I really like the "Best of"

Dave Holland - Conference of the Birds - you may have, but a real classic of the era, with Sam Rivers and Anthony Braxton

Enrico Rava - Pilgrim and the Stars - with John Abercrombie

I am sure you are familiar with 'em, but everything McCoy did on Milestone - if you don't have Enlightenment - grab it

My gut - and what I would like to hear more about from fellow board members - is the European angle from this era - me thinks this is where much fruit may reside

Also - some of John McLaughlin's early stuff, including a very nice Gordon Beck side called Experiments with Pops

Oh yes - and this is on Blue Note - but Moon Rappin' by Jack McDuff. Believe it or not, I think it damn near meets your progressive and groovy requirement

Edited May 27, 2004 by Eric

[John L]

You mean to say that non-Blue Note recordings can be underrated too?

[couw]

try some Hans Koller on MPS

[charlesp]

Where to begin ?

Art Ensemble of Chicago - PEOPLE IN SORROW on nessa

Chet Baker Quintet - SMOKIN' w/ ,or GROOVIN' w/ , on Prestige

Marion Brown - THREE FOR SHEPP on Impulse!

John Carter/Bobby Bradford Quartet - FLIGHT FOR FOUR on Flying Dutchman

or - SEEKING on Revelation

Sonny Criss - THIS IS CRISS! on Prestige

Art Farmer - THE TIME & THE PLACE w/ Jimmy Heath on Columbia

Stan Getz - SWEET RAIN on Verve

Roland Kirk - RIP, RIG & PANIC on Limelight

Lee Konitz w/ Martial Solal - EUROPEAN EPISODE or IMPRESSIVE ROME on Campi

Warne Marsh - NE PLUS ULTRA on Revelation

more later...

Edited May 27, 2004 by charlesp

[Eric]

yep ... anything by Sonny Criss from this era is worthy ... a particular favorite:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&u...l=A3aqpg4abtv8z

[jazzbo]

Here's three ---there are so many---

Charles Mingus, "Let My Children Hear Music"

Duke Ellington, "Soul Call"

Yusef Lateef, "A Flat, G Flat and C"

[brownie]

There are quite a number of underrated albums from that era but what is startling is the absence of albums through those years of musicians who were at the top of their developments in those years and went - with rare exceptions - with no records under their name.

Where are the albums by Kenny Dorham, Lucky Thompson, Warne Marsh, Zoot Sims, Al Cohn, Hank Jones and others? What a shame the labels ignored them!

[ejp626]

I like Heavy Sounds by Elvin Jones and Richard Davis on Impulse, which I listened to a couple of times over the weekend as part of my all Elvin weekend. I think is definitely better than the 3 star review AMG gives it. Frank Foster plays on nearly all the tracks. My favorite track on this album is the last one -- Here's That Rainy Day.

[Guest akanalog]

eric kloss-eric kloss and the rhythm section (with miles davis' corea/holland/dejohnette rhythm section and pat martino on half the cuts)-i actually hate that rhythm section with miles, but here i like them better for some reason...

herbie mann-stone flute (this is actually a pretty weird album...can't really describe it...not commercial...has sharrock, vitous, ayers and some strings...very spacey)

pat martino-baiyina (sort of eastern fusion with sitar-ey sounding guitar interaction-richard davis and charlie persip in the rhythm section though)

eberhard weber-yellow fields (is this a little too late? not sure...awesome album with charlie mariano and jon christensen...rainer bruninghaus plays some shimmery keyboards)

just got a sweet terumasa hino album on vinyl called hogiuta-it has cecil mcbee, mtume and maybe motohiko hino on drums...very percussive and bass groove heavy with some out parts..i know dustygroove did have it on CD before)

Edited May 27, 2004 by akanalog

[tjobbe]

to add to the Kollers and CBBB, the German MPS label was throwing tons of good stuff on the market, where lot of them is re-issued meanwhile. ... you'll find some of them as Verve in the US.

Cheers, Tjobbe

EDIT: some other samples are the records Oscar Petersons did for them or some other german Fritz Pauer or Horst Jankowski,

Edited May 27, 2004 by tjobbe

[Eric]

one of my all-time favorites ... Miroslav Vitous - Mountain in the Clouds, with Herbie, Joe Henderson and John McLaughlin ...

[undergroundagent]

I'm going to buck the trend thus far and point out some heavyweight groovers.

Charles Earland "Black Talk"

Charles Kynard "Professor Soul"

Melvin Sparks "Sparks!"

Cedar Walton "Spectrum"

[Guest akanalog]

well i guess then you could also say perhaps that

herbie hancock-mwandishi

herbie hancock-crossings

are kind of underrated since they are not too well known or talked about in the hancock canon. two of my favorites, though, just below "sextant".

also have you heard the german group embryo? mal waldron played on a few albums with them in the late 60s-early 70s. personally i do not love these albums, mostly because of the sound of the drums and also the voilin, but

embryo-rocksession

embryo-steig aus

both have waldron on electric piano and are pretty cool.

just post waldron,

embryo-father, son and holy ghosts

is a lot better i think, production-wise and has better compositions. the "father" in the title is mal waldron.

an incredible, possibly my favorite album, is

mal waldron-the call on japo from 1971.

this album has eberhard weber, waldron on electric piano, this dude jimmy jackson who played organ in embryo alongside waldron's electric piano, and fred braceful on drums. it is great.

why doesnt ecm release some japo stuff. it is mostly awesome. also lets see more MPS stuff more readily available! well the less straight-ahead stuff anyway (peterson, alexander, grapelli, etc)

[Guest akanalog]

speaking of cedar walton, his first prestige album...before spectrum..maybe it is called the cedar walton trio, quartet and quintet..is really great. it has some bouncy kenny dorham, bill higgins, leroy vinnegar and junior cook, who i am usually not a big fan of...but this is an upbeat and playful album to my ears. this is from 1967.

[Eric]

presume you have heard all the early 70s Woody Shaw stuff on Contemporary and Muse ... not a sucker in the bunch ...

[7/4]

Dave Holland - Conference of the Birds - you may have, but a real classic of the era, with Sam Rivers and Anthony Braxton

essential.

[7/4]

eberhard weber-yellow fields

I wish ECM would release that on CD, the only one of his ECM output I've never heard.

[7/4]

Circle.

[7/4]

Anthony Braxton on Arista.

[7/4]

eberhard weber-yellow fields

I wish ECM would release that on CD, the only one of his ECM output I've never heard.

And the Abercrombie Qt. too.

[GA Russell]

Well, some of these have already been mentioned, but I'll vote for them again.

Stan Getz - Sweet Rain

Miroslav Vitous - Infinite Search

Chet Baker - Comin' On

Dave Pike - The Doors of Perception

Steve Marcus - Tomorrow Never Knows

Steve Marcus - Count's Rock Band

Mose Allison - I've Been Doin' Some Thinking

Attila Zoller - Gypsy Cry

Cal Tjader - Plugs In

Mark Murphy - Bridging a Gap

And although this is bossa nova pop, high marks go to Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66's second album, Equinox.

edit: I want to add some jazz rock that was important to me at the time. These bands were marketed as rock bands, but there was a lot of jazz there.

Manfred Mann Chapter III

Manfred Mann Chapter III Volume 2

If (with Dick Morrissey)

If2

If3

If4 (also known as Waterfall)

Dreams (with the Brecker Brothers, John Abercrombie and Billy Cobham)

Edited May 27, 2004 by GA Russell

[Guest akanalog]

yellow fields is out on CD. just only in europe. i ordered mine from ECM online.

a lot of good ECMs are out only in europe..they deserve wider distribution.

but ECM should really get on the ball-there is a ton of stuff both ECM and japo-wise that should be out here in america.

actually i think the abercrombie quartet album "arcade" is on CD in japan. again...deserves to be everywhere....

[Eric]

eberhard weber-yellow fields

I wish ECM would release that on CD, the only one of his ECM output I've never heard.

And the Abercrombie Qt. too.

oh yes ... most definitely ...

[.:.impossible]

one of my all-time favorites ... Miroslav Vitous - Mountain in the Clouds, with Herbie, Joe Henderson and John McLaughlin ...

Wow. I didn't know about this, and I've been thinking about McLaughlin's early days lately... hm.

I just picked up a couple of ESP reissues this week that I think deserve mention. The first is the Ronnie Boykins-led session. I recognize 0 names on the album, other than Ronnie, but it is a hell of an album. Kind of Ra-ish I guess.

Lowell Davidson Trio with Peacock and Graves. I can't really hear what Peacock is doing, but the interaction between Davidson and Graves is fantastic. This probably fits into one of Rooster's earlier threads about progressive piano trios. Nice. Also ESP.