Tina Brooks

[mikeweil]

I had the Mosaic but sold it after buying CDs of the three later albums. I never liked Minor Move for the attitude Morgan et al. displayed towards newcomer Brooks.

[bertrand]

6 hours ago, mikeweil said:

I had the Mosaic but sold it after buying CDs of the three later albums. I never liked Minor Move for the attitude Morgan et al. displayed towards newcomer Brooks.

Can you elaborate on this?

[mikeweil]

In the notes to the Mosaic box ( I don't remember who wrote them) the author described his impression that Brooks seemed intimidated by the fast company Alfred Lion gave him, and that Morgan and Clark, in particular audibly showed him where the hammer hang - I thought, too, that it sounded like that. Please have a look at the commentary to that session if you want more -  as I said I sold the box set. Maybe I have a photocopy of the liner notes, but no idea where they could be stored.

[Brad]

6 hours ago, bertrand said:

Can you elaborate on this?

I have the book. It was written by Robert Palmer. Here are the relevant excerpts.

[bertrand]

Thank you! He speculates that the veteran players may have tried to protect their turf but certainly does not give specific examples and I don't hear it. Would love some examples.

Lee does seem to have taken credit for Nutville on the Monday Night at Birdland date, although it is not clear that Brooks is the composer (no copyright). Curtis Fuller was asked, and he seemed to think it was a take-off on Sonny Red's Bluesville. Hmm...

Edited April 3, 2021 by bertrand

[Dan Gould]

12 hours ago, mikeweil said:

I had the Mosaic but sold it after buying CDs of the three later albums. I never liked Minor Move for the attitude Morgan et al. displayed towards newcomer Brooks.

 

5 hours ago, mikeweil said:

In the notes to the Mosaic box ( I don't remember who wrote them) the author described his impression that Brooks seemed intimidated by the fast company Alfred Lion gave him, and that Morgan and Clark, in particular audibly showed him where the hammer hang - I thought, too, that it sounded like that. Please have a look at the commentary to that session if you want more -  as I said I sold the box set. Maybe I have a photocopy of the liner notes, but no idea where they could be stored.

 

5 minutes ago, Brad said:

I have the book. It was written by Robert Palmer. Here are the relevant excerpts.

To me that's a case of projection/presumption by Palmer. "Intimidated" could also mean "not so sure of himself" or simply "not quite ready". It doesn't mean Morgan or Clark went out to make him look bad or treated him poorly (how does one do that?). Lee was on fire - and the album is better for it. 

I get why Alfred didn't put it out at the time. He wanted the right presentation for someone he probably hoped would move some records and make some noise. 

The record is still fine as it is and I am glad to have it.  Lee teared it up. Doesn't mean he was hating on Tina Brooks.

[Brad]

21 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

 

 

To me that's a case of projection/presumption by Palmer. "Intimidated" could also mean "not so sure of himself" or simply "not quite ready". It doesn't mean Morgan or Clark went out to make him look bad or treated him poorly (how does one do that?). Lee was on fire - and the album is better for it. 

I get why Alfred didn't put it out at the time. He wanted the right presentation for someone he probably hoped would move some records and make some noise. 

The record is still fine as it is and I am glad to have it.  Lee teared it up. Doesn't mean he was hating on Tina Brooks.

I also thought Palmer was projecting. 

[bertrand]

I thought it did not come out at the time due to phasing problems with the drums, same as Witch Doctor. RVG had a little trouble with getting Blakey's drums right.

Anyone else heard this story? I doubt I am making it up. Phasing is perhaps not the right word.

Edited April 4, 2021 by bertrand

[Chuck Nessa]

2 minutes ago, bertrand said:

I thought it did not come out at the time due to phasing problems with the drums, same as Witch Doctor. RVG had a little trouble with getting Blakey's drums right.

HUH?

 

[gmonahan]

Palmer, by the way, wrote the "detail" notes for the Mosaic booklet. Michael Cuscuna himself wrote the introductory essay.

 

 

gregmo

[mikeweil]

On 3.4.2021 at 1:39 AM, bertrand said:

I thought it did not come out at the time due to phasing problems with the drums, same as Witch Doctor. RVG had a little trouble with getting Blakey's drums right.

Anyone else heard this story? I doubt I am making it up. Phasing is perhaps not the right word.

The ride cymbal sounded distorted, as if the level was set a bit high.

[bertrand]

I wonder if technical issues such as this were sometimes the reason dates were not issued. Maybe Alfred annotated the logs with this type of info, maybe not. If there was tension in the studio because the veterans were trying to put the newbie in his place, Alfred might well have held back the session because of that. He would have been present to witness it, but I was not of course.

 

The only session for which we know why it was not issued is Redd's Blues. Freddie and Alfred had a big fight in the studio, partially as a result of the last minute addition of Benny Bailey without proper rehearsal time. Freddie is the source of information for this.

[Dan Gould]

11 hours ago, bertrand said:

 

 

The only session for which we know why it was not issued is Redd's Blues. Freddie and Alfred had a big fight in the studio, partially as a result of the last minute addition of Benny Bailey without proper rehearsal time. Freddie is the source of information for this.

Freddie told you about the fight but what did he think of the record when it did come out, so many years later?

[Shrdlu]

A very late reply to mjazzg's comment about the best sounding version of Tina Brooks's "Minor Move". The Blue Note Works TOCJ--1616 CD sounds fine, and the one alternate take is on TOCJ-1601. I put together a CDr of everything in session order and gave it a spin today.

Everyone plays well, and one can't have enough Sonny Clark, but the session doesn't happen, and I won't be playing it again soon. I wouldn't have issued it. There are plenty of good recordings by the participants. For Brooks, "True Blue" is where it's at, and the September 1, 1960 session, with "Street Singer", is excellent.

[Late]

Lee Morgan is a cloven-hoofed Dionysus.

[clifford_thornton]

Brooks has been described as being "effete," "slight," or "effeminate" and I wonder if his sexual orientation had something to do with being hired for jobs or given more attention by Blue Note at the time. I have a hunch that Brooks was gay, and while in today's jazz world it wouldn't matter so much, there was a time where it definitely would have. Anybody else catch this?

[jazzbo]

I've had that thought. A pretty big "personal habit" might have been a contributing factor to a diminished career as well. I wonder how his life was in the Ray Charles band.

[clifford_thornton]

yeah, for sure. And habits linked to personal stressors like being black and gay in America... recipe for a very tough life.

[JSngry]

2 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

Brooks has been described as being "effete," "slight," or "effeminate"...

Keep in mind that "they" said the same type of things about Lester Young.

I'd not read too much into it.

[clifford_thornton]

and Ornette. But it's hard to say for certain of course.

[bertrand]

7 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

Brooks has been described as being "effete," "slight," or "effeminate" and I wonder if his sexual orientation had something to do with being hired for jobs or given more attention by Blue Note at the time. I have a hunch that Brooks was gay, and while in today's jazz world it wouldn't matter so much, there was a time where it definitely would have. Anybody else catch this?

Doris from Theme for Doris was identified in the Mosaic booklet as his girlfriend, IIRC.

[clifford_thornton]

gotcha, hadn't noticed that or hadn't remembered it. Of course one can have a girlfriend and be gay but that's a whole 'nother ball of wax.

[Holy Ghost]

True Blue is a great record. Back to the Tracks (partially Street Singer/ J's Bag I think) for Jackie alone is awesome, and the other two Connie's are sweet. Glad to have all the BN's. I really don't care if Tina (whoever) is gay or straight, this is simply great music. 

[Stonewall15]

Holy Ghost- I feel the same way as you do. The music is what counts not sexual orientation, drug addictions, alcoholism, mental problems or marital problems. The 4 Blue Notes by Tina Brooks are wonderful and some also feature great trumpet by Lee Morgan.

[jazzbo]

Well, only one features trumpeter Lee Morgan, but Freddie Hubbard and Blue Mitchell contribute strongly to the others.