JSngry Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Max Roach in Amsterdam was on Baystate, correct? That's another amazing body of work, his Baystate output. Between Denon & Baystate, Max Roach and Max Roach-assocated records tell a story that has yet to be fully heard by the general market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulpope Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, JSngry said: Max Roach in Amsterdam was on Baystate, correct? Baystate RVJ-6029 .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HutchFan Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, JSngry said: Max Roach in Amsterdam was on Baystate, correct? That's another amazing body of work, his Baystate output. Between Denon & Baystate, Max Roach and Max Roach-assocated records tell a story that has yet to be fully heard by the general market. Another below-radar release by this same quartet: Confirmation, released on the Fluid label in France. Recorded 1978. Discogs entry here. Subsequently, Billy Harper left Roach's Quartet and was replaced with Odean Pope. (I love Harper, but I think Pope is a superb tenorist too.) Roach then started making record for Soul Note. (The first of these is the excellent and also under-appreciated Pictures in a Frame.) I suppose Roach's series of Soul Notes are more well known than the LPs Horo, Denon, Baystate and Fluid. But only just! At some point, Columbia gave Roach a shot. (FINALLY, a "major"!) I think he made two records for them. Chattahoochee Red is EXCELLENT, but it seemingly vanished without a trace. (Not surprisingly, Sony has never reissued it.) The other LP was made with Roach's percussion ensemble, M'boom, not the quartet. Missed opportunities right and left. Edited October 7, 2019 by HutchFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Look at these Max records on Baystate: https://www.discogs.com/search/?q=max+roach+baystate&type=all Billy Harper had one: https://www.discogs.com/search/?q=billy+harper+baystate&type=all Another Max/Billy from Japan: https://www.discogs.com/Max-Roach-Quartet-Nommo/release/1919200 Of course, Billy on Denon (there were three, actually, a fact which had eluded me until not that many years ago, Love On The Sudan was not in the shops here like the two later ones were, I guess because it wasn't PCM'ed) Just saying, that whole Max/Billy band left a legacy, if not in breadth or repertoire, then definitely in intensity of performances. One of the strongest bands Max ever had, imo, even with Cecil Bridgewater not really being anything scorching himself. He didn't need to ba. Although, imagining that band with Hannibal in the trumpet chair...oh well about that. And still - no representation in the general marketplace, which is a crime of sorts, really, so distorting of history that absence is. The Soul Note records were different types of records, quite by intent. I DID see Max's band (at Carnegie Hall, of all places) shortly after Odean joined, and it was quite intense. But Max apparently decided not to make records like that any more, after Billy left, something about making them more "listener friendly" by having shorter tracks and more tunes per record. Whatever... I wish somebody would do a legit set of this part of Max's career. Most people still don't know, and time's a'-wastin'. 26 minutes ago, HutchFan said: At some point, Columbia gave Roach a shot. (FINALLY, a "major"!) I think he made two records for them. Chattahoochee Red is EXCELLENT, but it seemingly vanished without a trace. (Not surprisingly, Sony has never reissued it.) Chattahoochie Red (how many people today would even know what that title was about?) was a thing that Max leased to Columbia because of his friendship/trust/respect/whatever of/with Bruce Lundvall. Columbia also reissued We Insist on the same type deal, a lease. And Max kept an association with Lundvall as he moved to Electra/Musician, and then to Blue Note. Apparently, Max could be "difficult" to do business with. Oh well about that too. The records still got made. Now they need to be saved, if only so they don't get forgotten completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulpope Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, JSngry said: Another Max/Billy from Japan: https://www.discogs.com/Max-Roach-Quartet-Nommo/release/1919200 Superb platter .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HutchFan Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, JSngry said: Apparently, Max could be "difficult" to do business with. Oh well about that too. The records still got made. Now they need to be saved, if only so they don't get forgotten completely. I know that I'd buy a Denon/Baystate Roach set in a heartbeat if someone like Mosaic did their thing. Do you think there'd be any market for it? I know that that more contemporary (i.e., post 1960s) stuff doesn't necessarily sell as well as the older stuff. Or at least they haven't concentrated on it as much. But it's not like we're talking about an obscure guy from some far-off corner of the jazz world. It's MAX ROACH for god's sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 1 minute ago, HutchFan said: It's MAX ROACH for god's sake. Exactly. And for the truth(s) of Max Roach to be distorted is to distort the truth(s) of jazz. Not that anybody's ever gone broke doing that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh1958 Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 I've never heard (nor seen) any of these Max Roach with Billy Harper records. The two main memories of my one time seeing Max Roach in person (with Odean Pope, Tyrone Brown and Cecil Bridgewater) are of Max playing a solo history of jazz drums piece, and a nearly hour long version of Scott Free that was devastating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HutchFan Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 (edited) 48 minutes ago, kh1958 said: I've never heard (nor seen) any of these Max Roach with Billy Harper records. Here's Live in Tokyo, Vols. 1 & 2 on YT: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyHn3f7-9IUIUnMFVjF5HIkLd11FvuxPE Max Roach - drums Billy Harper - ts Cecil Bridgewater - tpt Reggie Workman - bass Rec.Yubin Chokin Hall, Tokyo, Japan, 21/01/1977 Denon C38-7006 Currently, not available anywhere -- even as a download! Unless you pay $50 each for the two LPs, like Pim did. Edited October 7, 2019 by HutchFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gheorghe Posted October 8, 2019 Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 I think I have all or nearly all Soul Note Albums, but it´s really a shame that the band with Billy Harper was recorded only for quite shortlived labels. I say, Max Roach is one of the most important musicians from the generation that created "modern jazz". How many Bird, Bud, Diz, Mingus CD´s are available, and how little of Max Roach´s work is available. I didn´t know Max Roach was difficult to deal with. On stage I always had the impression he was very very articulate, very gentleman-like and very nice to the audience, that´s how I remember him on stage. About the "second" quartet , I mean when Harper and Workman were replaced by Odean Pope and Calvin Hill, well I also enjoyed that but I didn´t like Odean Pope´s Sound so much as I liked Billy Harper. And Maybe Calvin Hill used another bass amp, but his bass sound was not the same like Reggie Workman, it sounded more amplified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillF Posted October 8, 2019 Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 55 minutes ago, Gheorghe said: I think I have all or nearly all Soul Note Albums, but it´s really a shame that the band with Billy Harper was recorded only for quite shortlived labels. I say, Max Roach is one of the most important musicians from the generation that created "modern jazz". How many Bird, Bud, Diz, Mingus CD´s are available, and how little of Max Roach´s work is available. I didn´t know Max Roach was difficult to deal with. On stage I always had the impression he was very very articulate, very gentleman-like and very nice to the audience, that´s how I remember him on stage. About the "second" quartet , I mean when Harper and Workman were replaced by Odean Pope and Calvin Hill, well I also enjoyed that but I didn´t like Odean Pope´s Sound so much as I liked Billy Harper. And Maybe Calvin Hill used another bass amp, but his bass sound was not the same like Reggie Workman, it sounded more amplified. Yes, Roach was very articulate on the one occasion I saw him (around 1968). I'm not so sure about "nice to audience" though. He asked the English audience the politically/historically embarrassing question of why the members of his band (Tolliver, Pope, Cowell, Merritt) all had "good old English names". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gheorghe Posted October 8, 2019 Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 10 minutes ago, BillF said: Yes, Roach was very articulate on the one occasion I saw him (around 1968). I'm not so sure about "nice to audience" though. He asked the English audience the politically/historically embarrassing question of why the members of his band (Tolliver, Pope, Cowell, Merritt) all had "good old English names". I have heard about that question why the bandmembers had "good old English names", embarrassing indeed ! Well, anyway, 1968 must have been a rough year. I´m too young, in 1968 I was 9 years old. I saw Roach twice , in 1978 and 1980. On the second occasion, Roach made the stage announcements in German language, much to the surprise of the audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted October 8, 2019 Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 NY USA mono Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulpope Posted October 8, 2019 Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 2 hours ago, Gheorghe said: And Maybe Calvin Hill used another bass amp, but his bass sound was not the same like Reggie Workman, it sounded more amplified. Calvin Hill was no match for Reggie Workman, though a good bass player .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pim Posted October 8, 2019 Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 19 hours ago, HutchFan said: Unless you pay $50 each for the two LPs, like Pim did. Nah that was 50 for the both incl shipping. Not bad eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulpope Posted October 8, 2019 Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 Just now, Pim said: Nah that was 50 for the both incl shipping. Not bad eh? A pittance .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HutchFan Posted October 8, 2019 Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Pim said: Nah that was 50 for the both incl shipping. Not bad eh? Not bad at ALL!!! $25 each from JPN is a steal. 1 hour ago, soulpope said: A pittance .... Indeed. Especially when we're talking about THAT music. Now giving this new-to-me LP another spin: Edited October 8, 2019 by HutchFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HutchFan Posted October 8, 2019 Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 Junior Cook - Pressure Cooker (Affinity, rec. 1977) with Mickey Tucker, Cecil McBee (or Juini Booth on two cuts), and Leroy Williams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HutchFan Posted October 8, 2019 Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 (edited) François Jeanneau - Techniques douces (Owl, 1976) with Michel Graillier, Jean-François Jenny-Clark, and Aldo Romano Edited October 8, 2019 by HutchFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 6 hours ago, HutchFan said: Junior Cook - Pressure Cooker (Affinity, rec. 1977) with Mickey Tucker, Cecil McBee (or Juini Booth on two cuts), and Leroy Williams Blast from the past - a common sight in the racks, back in the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulpope Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 6 hours ago, HutchFan said: François Jeanneau - Techniques douces (Owl, 1976) with Michel Graillier, Jean-François Jenny-Clark, and Aldo Romano 👍! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gheorghe Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, sidewinder said: Blast from the past - a common sight in the racks, back in the day. Inspired by the album cover, another Affinity Thing: The Wynton Kelly Trio with George Coleman. Recorded About 1968/69. Ron McLure had replaced Paul Chambers. I remember Ron McLure very well as a very very fine bass Player: I heard him a fantastic group Dave Liebman had around 1980: Ron McLure was on bass, Terumaso Hino was on trumpet, John Scofield was on guitar. It was young John Scofield who helped me to "meet Dave Liebman". John Scofield was fantastic but still not as well known as he was a few years later. I had been Aware of him since he had recorded with Mingus (then recently). 3 Years later I hear that he joined the Miles Davis Group. I thought "Incredible", THE JOHN SCOFIELD, the guy who led my way to "meet Dave Liebman" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HutchFan Posted October 11, 2019 Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 Such beautiful & joyous music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HutchFan Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 Now this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted October 12, 2019 Report Share Posted October 12, 2019 Wonderful band, wonderful album. Japanese New Jazz. On 09/10/2019 at 7:38 AM, Gheorghe said: Inspired by the album cover, another Affinity Thing: The Wynton Kelly Trio with George Coleman. Recorded About 1968/69. Ron McLure had replaced Paul Chambers. I remember Ron McLure very well as a very very fine bass Player: I heard him a fantastic group Dave Liebman had around 1980: Ron McLure was on bass, Terumaso Hino was on trumpet, John Scofield was on guitar. It was young John Scofield who helped me to "meet Dave Liebman". John Scofield was fantastic but still not as well known as he was a few years later. I had been Aware of him since he had recorded with Mingus (then recently). 3 Years later I hear that he joined the Miles Davis Group. I thought "Incredible", THE JOHN SCOFIELD, the guy who led my way to "meet Dave Liebman" Yep, McLure is really excellent. Have only seen him the once, in an Adderley tribute band which had George Duke and Lenny White. Uptown LP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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