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Patty, you must have a clean conscience. How come you work 2 1/2 part time jobs instead of 1 full time? Good question. Because I have no contacts here and it was important for me to take any job, or jobs which would earn enough, together to pay my rent, bills and put groceries on the table. I organize the office, compose letters and mailers and do typing etc. for an investment broker, about ten hours a week, the paperwork at home, so actually more. I work in a ladieswear store about twenty five hours a week and, work about fifteen hours a week at the liquor store, around the corner from my building. I was working full-time at the liquor store, but they are open until two in the morning and with my other jobs, three hours sleep isn't enough, so I asked to just fill in. Amazing what we women end up doing for a living, regardless of the skills we may have to offer, if we simply have to pay the rent.

Patty, you must have a clean conscience. How come you work 2 1/2 part time jobs instead of 1 full time?

So then Patty, perhaps I can deftly segue this topic back on track, and ask if you could explain to us the genesis of how Sadaam earned his nickname: Saddam "Big Beef" Hussein?

Thanks Brad. That was it. I was hoping to get that term from our loveable and loquacious Patty.

Canada was there Patty because England was there. Canada wasn't quite independent at the time. They had some degree of autonomy but not completely. Perhaps you could remind me of the details of the arrangement. I forgot the term used. Conn, Yes, Canada's constitution was held in England, by the British, although we didn't pay taxes to them. Our laws were based on English Common Law and still are. The "Speech from the Throne" was originally read by whoever the King or Queen was, but then was passed to our Attorney General, and is still read as a formality, at the opening of Paliament. Originally, our laws had to be approved by Britain, but they aren't any more. Pierre Trudeau, during his tenure, in the late 1960's, as Prime Minister, formally asked that our constitution be given to us, by England and it was. We had been independant of the British Empire for decades, for all intents and purposes. Our connection to the British is merely a cultural one, at best now. We are as independant as the U.S. is from Britain. However, during the early part of the twentieth century, we were part of the British Empire, and our army volunteered as a matter of course, as well as as a gesture of solidarity against a common enemy, Hitler. Oh, and GROPER, I don't hate Mr Bush. I simply thought, and still think that the war that Mr Bush has initiated was based on a series of deceptions and, although I don't hate him, I wonder how much of the intelligence he received was known, by him to be untrue. He may very well have been totally out of the loop. Of course, he doesn't, as far as I know, take the position that Truman took that "The Buck Stops Here" and if challenged will most likely point to underlings, who will fall on their swords, much as Reagan's underlings did, after the Iran/Contra affair. Wasn't the word Paul was looking for was "dominion"? Wasn't Canada then referred to as the Dominion of Canada or something like that? Yup. We were a Dominion and now, we're just Canada. Some thought that the formal, public assertion, by our re-claiming of our constitution from England was unnecessary, considering that we had been independant of Britain for a long time. But, Pierre Trudeau felt that we had to bring our constitution to Canada and did. The first visible sign of our independance, ceremonially, was the replacing of the Union Jack as our country's flag, with the red and white one, with which you are probably familiar. Lester Pearson, a previous PM was responsible for that. Apologies to our thread originator for veering so far afield. I'm sure that most of you don't really care about Canadian history, but, I was asked. If anything, it might help our neighbours to the south, if they just remembered that we are not just a tiny strip on the northernmost part of the map of the U.S. Canada is bigger than the continental U.S., although our entire population is about equal to two of your largest cities. Next..........

Canada was there Patty because England was there. Canada wasn't quite independent at the time. They had some degree of autonomy but not completely. Perhaps you could remind me of the details of the arrangement. I forgot the term used. Conn, Yes, Canada's constitution was held in England, by the British, although we didn't pay taxes to them. Our laws were based on English Common Law and still are. The "Speech from the Throne" was originally read by whoever the King or Queen was, but then was passed to our Attorney General, and is still read as a formality, at the opening of Paliament. Originally, our laws had to be approved by Britain, but they aren't any more. Pierre Trudeau, during his tenure, in the late 1960's, as Prime Minister, formally asked that our constitution be given to us, by England and it was. We had been independant of the British Empire for decades, for all intents and purposes. Our connection to the British is merely a cultural one, at best now. We are as independant as the U.S. is from Britain. However, during the early part of the twentieth century, we were part of the British Empire, and our army volunteered as a matter of course, as well as as a gesture of solidarity against a common enemy, Hitler. Oh, and GROPER, I don't hate Mr Bush. I simply thought, and still think that the war that Mr Bush has initiated was based on a series of deceptions and, although I don't hate him, I wonder how much of the intelligence he received was known, by him to be untrue. He may very well have been totally out of the loop. Of course, he doesn't, as far as I know, take the position that Truman took that "The Buck Stops Here" and if challenged will most likely point to underlings, who will fall on their swords, much as Reagan's underlings did, after the Iran/Contra affair. Wasn't the word Paul was looking for was "dominion"? Wasn't Canada then referred to as the Dominion of Canada or something like that?

Canada was there Patty because England was there. Canada wasn't quite independent at the time. They had some degree of autonomy but not completely. Perhaps you could remind me of the details of the arrangement. I forgot the term used. Conn, Yes, Canada's constitution was held in England, by the British, although we didn't pay taxes to them. Our laws were based on English Common Law and still are. The "Speech from the Throne" was originally read by whoever the King or Queen was, but then was passed to our Attorney General, and is still read as a formality, at the opening of Paliament. Originally, our laws had to be approved by Britain, but they aren't any more. Pierre Trudeau, during his tenure, in the late 1960's, as Prime Minister, formally asked that our constitution be given to us, by England and it was. We had been independant of the British Empire for decades, for all intents and purposes. Our connection to the British is merely a cultural one, at best now. We are as independant as the U.S. is from Britain. However, during the early part of the twentieth century, we were part of the British Empire, and our army volunteered as a matter of course, as well as as a gesture of solidarity against a common enemy, Hitler. Oh, and GROPER, I don't hate Mr Bush. I simply thought, and still think that the war that Mr Bush has initiated was based on a series of deceptions and, although I don't hate him, I wonder how much of the intelligence he received was known, by him to be untrue. He may very well have been totally out of the loop. Of course, he doesn't, as far as I know, take the position that Truman took that "The Buck Stops Here" and if challenged will most likely point to underlings, who will fall on their swords, much as Reagan's underlings did, after the Iran/Contra affair.

Canada was there Patty because England was there. Canada wasn't quite independent at the time. They had some degree of autonomy but not completely. Perhaps you could remind me of the details of the arrangement. I forgot the term used.

PATTY, You go girl. Now you're finally starting to make sense. Those people are not fellow citizens of the planet. That turning the other cheek shit is wearing pretty thin. I only wish they'd show those planes crashing into the WTC on a 20 times a day basis. Inquiring minds (especially the young minds) NEED TO KNOW (and be reminded. I think that the Sandchucks are starting to get the picture that Bin Laden fucked with the wrong people. If they're smart they'll turn the fuckhead in to the U.S.....but as we all now...THEY'RE NOT VERY SMART !! DEEP

Cool! I started something without even trying... Love those suggestions, but I wanna play too. How 'bout: "Snoopy's Fight Song" "Reincarnation of Woodstock" "Wam Bam Thank You Peppermint Patty" "Dog Callin' Blues" "E's Flat (Charlie Brown's) Flat (on his back) Too" "Song With Pumpkin" "Orange Was the Color of Her Dress, then Pig Pen Showed Up..."

I think the DEEP ONE only wants his punctuation corrected, Patty. No need to make any substantive changes. DEEP has his own style as you mentioned.

Conn ( A Linguist), I belive you misunderstood this sentence. The reference is to a "still" as in a distillery. We've changed it to "distillery" even though the meaning is different. A "still" is illegal as opposed to a distillery. If you missed it then the average reader will miss it so "distillery" it is. Thanks. DEEP My bad, DEEP. So sorry. My head is still in football right now. Cancel my suggestion. Patty: How about taking point next time??? You football fanatics!! A formidable task, given the unique expressions and colourful discriptive phrases of the author. I will if I'm given permission to do so by our thread-originator. The missive is written in an interesting, conversational tone and style, so it is a challenge, to say the least, to proof, without destroying the piece' originality. I'm tempted to rip out entire passages, but that's only because the thoughts are being expressed differently than I would express them. But, that's it's charm, if that's the word. The corrections you've made, along with pointing out of flat-out wrong usage of particular words are realtively easy. The problem becomes how to do more, without turning the piece into your or mine, rather than Steve's thoughts. Something to ponder.....

Conn ( A Linguist), I belive you misunderstood this sentence. The reference is to a "still" as in a distillery. We've changed it to "distillery" even though the meaning is different. A "still" is illegal as opposed to a distillery. If you missed it then the average reader will miss it so "distillery" it is. Thanks. DEEP My bad, DEEP. So sorry. My head is still in football right now. Cancel my suggestion. Patty: How about taking point next time???

Happy Birthday Patty!! Get a good book, good wine, hopefully some material on early jazz with players sporting odd nicknames. Tip the glass a little to all of us. We love you over here!

PaTTY, CAN THE NICKNAMES UNTIL I GET THIS PROOF READ. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Conn....Paulie, Check in quick. Tension and release: the mechanism of life. Our hearts beat, our lungs breathe, blood flows and nourishes our bodies' other members. Distill and bottle this mystery and you've got music, most elemental of the arts. Many are the base, conflicting ingredients tried and tested in the metaphoric still, but few are they who humbly purvey Purified Disparate Spirits ...[ethereal theme UP] It was a cold day in hell when Mr. Bigtime New York City Jazzcat insinuated himself into my life. Hell in 1966 was the U. S. Army at Camp Casey, South Korea. As conscripted volunteers in the Seventh Infantry Division Band, our only consolation was that we were temporarily exempt from that napalm-hot hell south of ol’ China down Vietnam way. Not only was there ice on our rice, but we were also subjected to the daily penances of digging ditches, moving rocks, cleaning latrines, polishing brass, cutting grass and painting everything that didn't move shades of gray (basic training, indeed!). We regularly hauled concertina wire, large tents and small stoves to the field, set up bivouac among the honeypots (shitholes), and then commenced guard duty for several days at a time, four hours on, four hours off. After breaking it all down and hauling it back to Camp Casey, we relaxed by cleaning all those muddy tents and sooty little stoves. The oxymoron "martial music" and the attendant mickeymouse ceremonials were incidental to our mission. Officers to the left of us, sergeants to the right, our grim preoccupation was to keep a low profile and gut it out for thirteen months. As Mr. Bigtime Staten Island First Army Band sauntered into the second hooch, our quonset-on-the-tundra, he took a long disdainful look around his new barracks and sniffed, "This is merely an inconvenience." Veteran inmates clamored vainly to disabuse him of his cool bravado, but he persisted. "They don't even know I'm here," he intoned. I immediately hated the arrogant bastard. Mr. Bigtime Exile, recently separated from fellow jazzcats Dave Liebman, Mike Garson, Donald Hahn, Steve Grossman and their ilk, had the supremely confident demeanor that typified--to the impressionable--New York City hipness. Sensing my alien vibe, he zeroed in. I was entitled by seniority to inherit a coveted corner bunk near one door of the second hooch. The vacating occupant, a weasel like (aren't they all?) clarinet player, was due to leave this hell for "the world." Mr. Bigtime Tipper slipped him a fin, preemptively buying my targeted living space. I sputtered my profane objections, but lost the battle. If I didn't adjust to the new regime, Mr. Toughman threatened, he'd work my mind over until I was talking to myself. Like all new arrivals, Mr. Drumperious was quarantined during his first two weeks in Korea. However, this policy was oppressive to him, since he was impatient to sample Asian culture in the nearby village of Tongduchon (yeah, he wanted to get laid). He tried to convince, cajole or con everyone in the band to buy him a forged "slickie" pass on the black market. All stood firm against his entreaties, mindful of the serious disciplinary risks involved--all except me. I was the sucker who cracked just to shut up his New York whine. Being pretty slick myself, I explicitly briefed Mr. Bigtime Horny on my infallible Plan B for returning to the post at curfew. We were to meet at the main gate a few minutes before midnight. In the event that word was passed back that the Military Police were collecting passes, legit or otherwise, for periodic scrutiny, he and I would dash to a different, little-used gate where the M. P.'s were known to be less meticulous. Does it surprise you to learn that Spec. 4 Different Drummer didn't show before the final beat of the I2 O'clock blues? As always, he set his own tempo-- and took me down with him for the kicker. In the morning our company commander, a defector from Castro's Cuba aptly named Candido, performed a conga riff on our sorry asses, then dismissed us. At that point I had to jab Pfc. Bigtime Pumpkin hard in the ribs as a reminder to execute a proper salute and about-face before marching out of Capt. Candido's office. (His civilian instinct was to just turn and split) As we headed back to the second hooch, I couldn't resist the delectable temptation to twist the blade. "They know you're here now." Thus a forced friendship was forged from our loss of rank, loss of pay and two weeks of extra duty. Settling into my embezzled crib, "D" campaigned in earnest to redeem himself and to convert his bandmates into disciples. He possessed an eclectic array of jazz tapes and the knowledge to explicate them. Every time he cranked up the box was a revelation. Charismatic and didactic, garrulous, querulous, gregarious and hilarious, he was the ideal leader of misfits. He corrected one guy who was snapping his fingers on one and three. Poppin' on two and four, the cat learned to swing. Prof. "D" elucidated the jazz argot, e.g. "hip" means perceptive, au courant (pardon my French, I'm paraphrasing here). Liberally lubricated by beer, pot and the then-legal Korean "mental energizer," Anapong, this son of a saloonkeeper extolled the affinity between a "taste" of intoxicant and "tasty" musical passages. And in all seriousness, I'm here to testify that "D" was a mentor to the late tenor player (and pride of Washington, D. C.) Carter Jefferson. Young Pvt. Jefferson was talented but directionless. Under "D"'s tutelage, he found the path that led him, in his maturity, to the likes of Art Blakey and Woody Shaw. Rest in peace, Carter, you crazy little motherfucker. Danny's generous spirit has shone throughout the many years I've known him. He got me a gig with the Glenn Miller Orchestra when he was a new hire himself. Later, he jumped that band in Japan to retrieve his Korean family--the twin sons he had himself helped deliver and their mother, his impish, constant wife, DuYeon. I met them at San Francisco International the exhausted day they all arrived to begin a better life. Danny had one dollar in his pocket and no job, but the beaming pride of a patriarch. We've laughed many times about the "mere inconvenience" of his Korean sojourns, but I've seen the satisfaction that he quietly enjoys whenever he can provide an opportunity for family, friend or fellow musician. Generous? Hell, he introduced me to my fifth wife, the only one of my ex's to pay me alimony! I've related these "war" stories for two reasons. 1) To illustrate what I've come to know is characteristic and consistent of the man and the musician. Danny's traits are often tensely contradictory. He leads without leaning heavily; he plays with simultaneous ebullience and restraint; he celebrates tradition with eyes and ears open to innovation; he's loyal and fickle, duty-bound and footloose. He only plays music in the key of D-Bop: his cues impel you to blow, to stretch out if you like, but you must know and negotiate the changes, follow the form, speak the idiom, make a statement, Tuff. Love him or hate him, Danny is the most confoundedly self-effacing egomaniac I've ever met. Therefore, reason number- - 2) This is my sweet revenge. I've witnessed the evolution of D-Bop's musical concept from his sextet at the duMaurier Jazz Festival in Toronto, 1993 and '95, through his small band of Bloviators and the initial Big Band Bloviation in upstate New York, to the present product. Peter Mack, by our putative leader’s admission, the rhythm and business pilot of their collaboration, has been a key player in the purification process. Look for new ingredients (hint: an Oliver Nelson chart or two) on their next purveyance, Volume 3, in September; aught-four. Until then... Purified Disparate Spirits abound; Imbibe those which are at hand... [ethereal theme FADE AND OUT] Steve Groebner 7th Inf. Div. Band, 1966-67

Check out Clint's avatar, Patty. May I say, in my typically elegant, decorous and restrained way.............MY MY, WOW???????? As for remembering the last time I answered in the negative to a gentleman's request, well, it's easier to remember the last time I said "yes". I say "I'm flattered, but no" much more often.

Check out Clint's avatar, Patty.

Geez, I'd come to think of this thread as a private Deep/Patricia place, now I see something from SGUD! If Danny and Patty get back to panting I can ignore another thread and "have a life".

Patty is correct. Got it DEEPSTER?

PATTY, How bout Walter "FOOTS" Thomas ?? or even better.. The legendary pianist DARNELL"DILDY" WILTSIE?? DEEP

tense is incorrect. He has participated... Same with the paragraph on Lew Tabackin: "He has been involved..." is better. And the second to last sentence: "He's featured extensively..." doesn't work. Try: He is extensively featured... okay? That's all the nitpicking I've got time for. Patty: Your Turn! Conn (definitely a linguist), Corrections made. CLASP !! DEEP

tense is incorrect. He has participated... Same with the paragraph on Lew Tabackin: "He has been involved..." is better. And the second to last sentence: "He's featured extensively..." doesn't work. Try: He is extensively featured... okay? That's all the nitpicking I've got time for. Patty: Your Turn!

Patty: come put some of your book-learning to use here. Help DEEP out. It's the DRY SEASON and he's suffering. Nothing duller than proofreading something. "For extensive biographical data on the holdovers from our first BBB release, please refer to my notes..." etc.

Ya see, Patty, I spent and still spend a lot of time in NYC. I always have a knife with me. In the situation I posed, I would shoot and not ask ANY questions. Before calling the police I would place the knife in the intruder's hand. I learned long ago that if you are threatened in your own home and you have to shoot an intruder make sure that you pull his body back in your dwelling before calling the police. Also place a weapon in the victim's hand and break glass from the outside inward to show an intrusion occurred. I keep guns within reach at all times, including when travelling, walking on deserted paths, and especially when sleeping.

True enough, Patty, but DEEP has extra tolerance for members of the FAIR SEX. Yeah, Dan, I guess you should have started your own thread there. We have to be quiet so DEEP can HIBERNATE through his dry season. (I love using those CAP LETTERS in DEEP fashion. Should have patented that one DEEP!) Remember, DEEP: HOT TEA (with a dab of milk like the English do!)