Leeway

There was a period of time when I first got seriously into jazz that I used Penguin and other guides to help me sort things out. Then I stopped looking at them and went my own way. Now I read Penguin simply for the pleasure of the writing (that erudite yet breezy style that marks much of British arts and letters writing) and the keenness of the critical arguments. They are serious about the subject yet not ponderous. In another age, one might label this an exercise in "connoisseurship" but now that term has a--unfortunately-- pejorative connotation. I also have the MusicHound Guide to Jazz, which has evaluations by a host of critics and reviewers. Generally, these people are passionate about their subjects and generally quite knowledgeable, but there is an inherent unevenness and inconsistency in such an approach. Still, it's a useful counterweight to Cook and Morton, who are, after all, not infallible (thank goodness). The point of any of these guides should be, in the end, to stimulate the reader/listener to develop their own critical thinking.

Are the prices the same for K2 or SACD versions?

I have the 3rd and 6th, don't know if I'll pick up the 7th, might wait for 8 or 9, supposing there will be an 8 or 9. I doubt 7 will have a signficant amount of new material, but we shall see. Cook and Morton provide some of the best assessments of any guide book. In fact, I think of this less as a "buyer's guide" than as a critical reference book.

"A Beautiful Day" might be described as Mingus meets Ornette, at least as a way of describing the sound of the arrangements. It's also somewhat reminiscent of Bob Belden's "Black Dahlia." Hill works out his ideas through the large brass section, and his piano plays a relatively minor role. OTOH, I think the most successful-- at least most immediately appealing-- cut on the album is "New Pinocchio," where Hill's piano takes on a more dominant role. I'm not sure why Hill wanted to offer these performances in a live setting. This is not the type of performance that benefits from having a live audience, and, in fact, I suspect the performance would have been better if Hill took advantage of a studio setting. I think you do have to work at this one a bit, but it also makes you willing to do so. It bears repeated listening. BTW, Stanley Crouch wrote the liner notes.

Finally figured out how to insert picture; wanted to post the Lee Morgan "City Lights" album cover, per my post above. That image of Lee slumped (?) in a chair looks like a piece of Renaissance iconography, set against a faintly surrealistic "city lights" background.

Enrico Rava Quartet- "Opening Night" - ECM, from about 1981. My first exposure to Rava. A definite Miles influence there. I'll need to hear more. Lee Morgan- "City Lights" - Blue Note/Toshiba- Lee with George Coleman, Curtis Fuller, et al. Songs by Golson and Gryce. Real good stuff, and Lee plays great. One of Reid Miles more esoteric cover illustrations. Horace Silver- "The Trio Sides" - Blue Note Re-Issue Series. Perceptive liner notes by Ran Blake.

I'll ask my psychologist next time I see him. Let us know what he says

Mr. Cobb has his own web site! Jimmy Cobb Web Page

I noticed that that seems to be a category of "anonymous members." How does that work? Why would people choose to be "anonymous"?

Can't find it now, but there was a good article on Cobb in Jazz Times within the last year. From the article, it appears he is in good form and still quite active in clubs and recording studio.

I just want to add that I gave the LP a spin, and it is a MUTHA! Talk about total presence and impact. I felt like I was right there with Mr. Turrentine. And thanks for all the good info. I learned something, and that's what it's all about.

PM sent re: Leo Parker.

Stanley Turrentine- "Rough 'N Tumble" - NY USA/Liberty MONO (see my other thread on the odd discographical issue with this LP)- totally kick ass sound- like you are RIGHT THERE with Stanley--terrific lineup; Lou Donaldson- "Midnight Creeper"- Liberty- a Francis Wolff production. Funky playing as only Lou can do it. I love the cover- one of those "girl covers" - not by Reid Miles but would have done him proud; Nina Simone- "Forbidden Fruit" - Colpix- what a fabulous singer, a singer of real distinction and power. Lee Morgan- "Sidewinder" - Liberty- as the guys at Penguin comment- this LP was both the best and worst thing to happen to Lee from an artistic standpoint. Still a lot of fun to listen to.

Reading the liner notes for "Woody III" by Amiri Baraka, Baraka comments that MUSE Records was "the Blue Note and Prestige of the '60s." Actually, that line appears as a quote in Baraka's essay, and it's not clear if he's quoting Woody Shaw, or some other unnamed source. Anyway, it got me thinking about Muse. I really don't know much about it. Maybe this would be a good place to discuss its history, who owned and ran it, its key artists, what happened to the label (I know a lot of Muse titles are offered by Evidence Records, and I think a lot of them found their way into the 32 Jazz catalog). Finally, was Muse the "Blue Note and Prestige of the 60s"? (Actually, as BN and Prestige were still going quite strong in the 60s, at least the early and mid-part of that decade) , maybe this line should be read as Muse had the importace in its time (the 70s?) that BN and Prestige had in the 60s? In any event, was Muse an "important" label, and did it have a significant influence on contemporary jazz?

What d'yall think of the Silver release? From what I've read here and elsewhere, these albums are not among Horace's better-regarded efforts. For example, from AMG: OTOH, there seems to be a growing appetite for "funk, fusion, soul jazz, African spirituality and hippie mysticism," and it's hard to think that Horace and Harold Vick together can be all that bad?

Well, I'm glad we got THAT settled I'm calm now I can just see the scene at the record pressing plant: JOE: Hey, Charlie, you runnin that Blue Note stuff? CHARLIE: Yeah, runnin it right now. JOE: Did you see those new labels they sent us.. Library or Liberty or somethin? CHARLIE: Uuuh, nah, aint seen nothin JOE: Oh yeah, new owners, new labels. CHARLIE: Oh, uh, um, yeah, OK, hey Joe, I gotta go fix somethin... see ya

I don't know what I can add that might be useful. The selections were made by TL's editors, mainly Jerry Korn, Phil Payne and Jeanne LeMonnier, all great people to work with and all jazz enthusiasts, but not experts. As annotators, we had the great advantage (apart from receiving fees that would be outrageously high even 25 years later) of being able to avail ourselves--through the editors--of TL's amazing research department. As a result, the notes often contained new information, interesting (albeit sometimes trivial) details that previously had escaped the inquiring minds of low-budget jazz writers. Thanks Chris. Those high fees sound pretty nice! Thanks Mr. Luce (or at least his money), I suppose. Is there anything you can add on the quality of the transfers, viny, etc? How would these sets stack up, let's say, against Mosaic's LP sets?

I'm not sure they are "fairly common," as I've gone through a lot of vinyl myself and not seen it, but obviously they are out there. Wollf, could you be more specific which mismatch you have. I find these kinds of things interesting. I suppose these mismatches take place at the pressing plant, but I wonder why and how they happen? Edit: Let me add that, in the used and rare book trade, where I spent most of my life (and still have a foothold), "rare" is considered something that you run across once in a lifetime. 'Scarce" is maybe once every five years (roughly). "Common" is something you see all the time. I would think by these definitiosn that mismatches (or mutants, as Dmitry calls them) are 'scarce." FWIW

Yes indeed Dmitry, it has "BNLP 4240" and "van gelder" stamped in the deadwax. Thanks for pointing that out. Do you have the same mismatch (Liberty/NY USA) or some other?

This is a great group of titles. I'll get all but the Wilson, which I already have. But at this point I can't figure out BN's reissue policy. For example, at least several former Conns are coming out as RVGs. One I'm really surprised to see make a re-appearance is "Little Johnny C"- which didn't do very well as a Conn and is now back as an RVG. There are others ( McLean's Destination Out comes to mind). Is it now about re-issuing re-issues? It also looks like all the stuff from the BN Mosaics are eventually finding their way into individual re-issues.

He frequents this board. If Chris notices this post, maybe he can add some background and additional information on these sets.

I picked up a Stanley Turrentine LP, "Rough 'N Tumble." At the bottom of the back cover, in large block letters, it says "MONAURAL" and "Also Available in Stereo." Address given is 43 West 61st St, New York. Here's the odd part: On Side 1, it says "Blue Note- A Division of Liberty Records" On Side 2, the label says, "Blue Note, New York, USA." I've never seen a BN LP with mismatched labels. Maybe some of you who have been collecting longer have (?). Does this seem pretty unusual? Have you come across it before? I'm pretty happy to find a mono copy too

Was let out of work a little earlier today, got to listen to some vinyl: Andrew Hill, "Nefertiti," Inner City. Complex, interesting music. Hill's piano solos sound orchestral at times. Woody Shaw- "Woody Shaw III" - Columbia- with some of the longest liner notes I've seen on a single LP, 2 sides of the inner sleeve, by, somewhat surprisingly, Amiri Baraka, saying good things about a fellow Newark, NJ resident- long, sometimes rambling notes, but often illuminating and informative. Billy Taylor Orchestra- "The Original Jazz Score of 'Kwamina' " Mercury Mono - with Clark Terry, Phil Woods, Jimmy Cleveland, and others. Good playing but the music is nothing special. Cal Tjader- "Warm Wave" - Verve- lush Claus Ogerman string arrangements, stops just this side of kitsch, which is maybe why I like it. Produced by Creed Taylor, this LP lists both Phil Ramone and Rudy Van Gelder as recording engineers! I don't think this one made it to CD -with all that lush orchestration and over-the-top vibes it's a natural for analog.

I don't know why anyone is apologizing. The topic of the thread is pretty clearly stated. The posts have been informative (this whole issue has been fairly well obscured until now). The issue is important from the point of view of collectors and of MUSIC LOVERS. If this thread is wrongheaded, then about 90% of the other threads on this board are no better. AJF67, I think you've been awfully nice about it all. I'm rather more pissed but I suppose there is little to be gained from further controversy about it.

Doesn't anyone at Mosaic listen to the set before it goes out, or check and verify the contents? This has been a perennial problem for BN and Mosaic. Most recent gaffes, the Eldridge cover photo, and the Moncur disc. If availability of personnel is a problem, I bet you that a call for volunteer help would net a good sized bunch of capable folks willing to help with production issues- just for the love of the music and of Mosaic (and maybe the chance of a free set ).