Captain Hate

I find this the most enjoyable of his music as well although I pretty much like anything he gets involved with (as Nate noted), including the Kamikaze Ground Crew. I saw him at Tzadik-fest at the Tonic in October 2001 with his Diaspora Soul group and I don't think I've had as much pure fun at a concert for a long time. As good as the disc is, he drove the musicians so damn hard that night that it took things to a whole 'nother level. Sex Mob had a regular Friday night midnight gig at the Knitting Factory for a long time where they really honed their chops. Although obviously he's not for everybody.

If you expect all who listen to Butcher to respond to this thread, think again. Obviously I defer to your knowledge of how things work here; I just think it's strange that a thread about Butcher in which somebody asks for recs goes idle for over a year.

Bill, sorry to just now respond to your query (wtf, doesn't anybody here listen to Butcher except Nate and Red?) but Invisible Ear is outstanding, assuming it's still in print . I just found this thread doing a search on Way Out Northwest which is excellent on its own terms.

Nate, I gave this (along with a few other cds) to a longtime bud of mine for Christmas which was both a sign of how much I liked it and how little else I've heard in the past year that I thought he'd like.

Subject to Chuck Nessa correcting me, I believe that Air started by playing a lot of ragtime songs in concert.

I just took a look down there at the thread treading. Thanks, BW, the barf bag came in handy. It seems to have come down to the troll, who has a high school crush on Wynton, the babbling Bush biker, and the main contrarian, who reads race into everything and appears to have edged ahead of the rainy Oaklander in that department. They all deserve each other and the web dominatrix deserves them all. This might be some of the most accurate satire on the innerwebz.

Good to see a thread for one of my favorite groups: Air Song was one of my earlier purchases of this type of music that is one of the more approachable recordings for a noob. The intricacies of the compositions were mesmerizing as were the solos (Hopkins first long solo on the first side was probably the first bass one that held my interest the whole way through multiple plays). I unfortunately never had a chance to see the group and agree that adding ak Laff (who is a cousin of a person I used to work with) made a slight group name change advisable. Everything I subsequently heard from the group (including some excellent concert boots) added another facet to the entity of the group and was most welcome. Like Tom Storer, I had a *lot* on vinyl that I no longer have an ability to play, that I wish was available in cd because I'm sure my ears would now hear them somewhat differently (ie. finding additional things to enjoy).

That pretty well says it for me. I saw him in the late 70s backing Johnny Griffin for a tour promoting Return of the Griffin; a very nice concert. Nothing flamboyant by Matthews but a solid backup for the Little Giant. RIP

The only time I saw Blythe with his own group (I saw him as part of the Leaders elsewhere) was with Stewart and Battle. Battle was quite the basher, lacking a lot of the subtle aspects of McCall, but he was fine that night. It's really sad that Battle, along with Hopkins, McCall and Hicks are no longer with us. Unfortunately I never got a chance to see McCall play. I was going to post earlier that I felt very fortunate to start listening to this type of music in the late 70s, because it seemed like it was a particularly fertile period for Black Saint/Soul Note, so much so that you could pick up any lp (their pressings were flawless, which used to be a big sticking point about vinyl to me) and almost be guaranteed of hearing something extremely innovative. And the groupings: Pullen/Rivers, Pullen/Moye, Pullen/Freeman/Hopkins/Battle, Brax/Roach, Murray/Weston.

Some of it, particularly the early stuff imo. In The Tradition was released shortly after Air Lore and was part and parcel of updating ragtime and Ellington standards. It was a working group with Stanley Cowell, Fred Hopkins and Steve McCall. The record was very good but Blythe's alto was strangely recorded on some cuts, particularly "The Jitterbug Waltz", where he almost sounded like a soprano. Maybe it was a deliberate recording thing to try and get a period-piece lo-fi type sound but it irritated me and other listeners. That was followed by Illusions which I think has been re-released on Koch. This began his practice of having two groups appearing on his recordings: The previously mentioned quartet with John Hicks replacing Cowell, and one featuring Blood Ulmer, Abdul Wadud, Bob Stewart (who appeared with him on earlier India Navigation and Adelphi releases) and Bobby Battle. This was also very good imo. Then came Blythe Spirit with the same dual group breakdown (except Kelvyn Bell replaced Ulmer) and one cut with Stewart and Amina Claudine Myers on organ doing "Just A Closer Walk With Thee". The next one was Elaboration and featured the Bell/Wadud/Stewart/Battle group and was good iirc (I haven't listened to it for a long time). Probably those four are Mosaic-worthy imo. The next one was a Monk retrospective which didn't strike me as particularly inspired, particularly considering it came out at a time when everybody was doing them. Then came Put Sunshine In It which was absolutely horrible and should never be released again. I'm not even sure who was on it but it was uninspired drum-machine garbage of the worst order. A total embarrassment. On Da-Da he got some better players back (Hicks, Battle, Stewart, Dara & McBee) but I never heard this because I'd lost interest. Basic Blythe was ok with Anthony Cox joining Hicks and Battle but the strings on it don't work very well at all. imo, Blythe ran out of song ideas. Even during his Columbia years he was re-recording songs that were released earlier. That has carried through to post-Columbia period; Spirits in the Field is made up of old material being redone; I like it and he plays with gusto and verve but that can only be sustained for so long. I was surprised the robber barons at Columbia stuck with him as long as they did since they shitcanned Threadgill's Society Situation Dance Band concept and dropped Murray after Ming's Samba which was a very good disc.

Count me among the fans of Winehouse's music. Derivative? Sure but tell me who isn't. I think she has a nice retro-soul/girl group sound that she pulls off well. Too bad her life's such a train-wreck but that's been apparent from day 1.

hey! Music that I feel qualified to add something to the discussion.

Thanks Bill; it's a pleasure to find some place where music is still being discussed.

Ok fair enough; I'm sure I'm not the only person to have heard the Society Situation Dance Band and will wait for any comments.

Dunno if you guys discuss boots here (although if not I'm sure I'll find out shortly) but some of the best Threadgill I've ever heard (and I go back to the early Air days) are three recordings of concerts by his Society Situation Dance Band recorded in the late 80s and 90s. It was a large group (20+) of shifting members (Stubblefield, Daniels, Zollar, Craig Harris, Frank Lacy, Wadud, Burnham, Jenkins, AkLaff, Ross, Jenour....) that played some of the most accessible and joyous Threadgill ever. I've heard this group knocked 'em dead in NYC and a legit recording was in the works until the robber barons at Sony got cold feet [edit]confirmed in the linked article. Maybe some other posters have more insight but this is primo stuff. I've seen him a couple times; once was an early version of Very, Very Circus and, when I came out of the concert I felt like I had a new insight into the ways of making music. Very rarely do I feel that way.

I'd forgotten about that one and I'm not sure if I ever heard it. Wasn't that recorded within a day of the Horo double lp with the same lineup?

There was also a Black Saint release Free to Dance by Marcello Melis that came out in the late 70s on vinyl and I think was released on cd in 94. That was back during the time that you could just buy any Black Saint/Soul Note release and be guaranteed it would be of high quality.

They're far from obscure but there are a couple Leaders discs w/Moye, Chico Freeman, Blythe, Lightsey & McBee.

Glad to see such a large number of posters giving their thoughts on Mike Osborne, unlike the scant response at another bbs that leads me to believe that the posters there aren't nearly as steeped in edgy music as they like to think (although it was a poster there that first made me aware of him a few years ago and strongly urged that I get Bordercrossing/Marcel's Muse and Outback). I subsequently picked up Live at the Plough which might be my fave. Don't have anything to expand upon what's been written already other than to reiterate how heartening it is to see such an overlooked figure recognized.