DMP

The Prestige albums seemed to be more "in your face." The first one I ever bought was Miles' "Steamin'" (the last material from that marathon session) and it seemed to leap out at me. (You can't beat those Heathkit amps.) By the way - what about his work for CTI? Much different than the other labels, and very identifiable. Where did he put all those string players?? Did Creed Taylor tell him what to do?

No offense, but I never thought Blue Note albums sounded like anything special, especially compared to many of the Contemporary or even Columbia LP's of the period. They sounded fine, but nothing really popped out at me. (And where's the bass? On records like "Hustlin'" and "My Point of View" it disappears!) And, while I've mindlessly replaced my first-generation CD's with the "RVG"'s, I really don't have that many complaints with the earlier releases - they sounded pretty much as I remember the LP's sounding - good, but nothing out of the ordinary.

I agree that there are only so many licks and pet phrases you can play over those vamps, but, as I mentioned above, Green sure looked like he was enjoying it - especially when he was playing those repetitive figures behind the other soloists. The last time I saw Green play (around the time of his "Kudo" release), I went expecting his usual organ/tenor group, and, instead, he was fronting a local rhythm section, and all the material they played was standards! Caught me by surprise! I was a little disappointed, but, in retrospect, glad to have had the opportunity to hear him in that setting. (And he looked like he was having a good time then, too.)

One of the few advantages to being older - we were around to see and hear our musical heroes. I caught the tale end of the era, when a wide range of jazz artists made regular (and week-long) stops in what were basically neighborhood spots. Here in Pittsburgh we had one club which primarily featured organ groups (Donaldson, Lonnie Smith, John Patton, McDuff, Scott, Earland, Pat Martino & Gene Ludwig) and a second (not far away) that had more straight-ahead groups (Horace Silver, Kenny Burrell, 3 Sounds, Art Blakey, Roy Ayers, James Moody... One time there was an appearance by the short-lived and apparently un-recorded "Jazz Communicators" - Freddie Hubbard and Joe Henderson!). Green was one of the only musicians to play both venues. Great atmosphere, very reasonable (a beer was maybe a dollar), it was no big deal to drop by a couple times during an engagement. (I saw Green so many times I think he thought he knew me.) I've lost track of all the people I've heard in this setting. Hope I appreciated it. The scene hung on for a few years after the King assassination (and the subsequent riots), but was pretty much over by the mid-seventies (when jazz in general was having a tough time). (About a week after the riots I went to hear Groove Holmes, after hearing a campaign speech by Eugene McCarthy. Seems surreal.) I'm sure there are many people around here who heard a lot more than me. One of the other advantages of being older is the discount at "SuperCuts."

Some groups were conscious about entertaining the audience, and went beyond simply playing the music. McDuff, for example, would drop a handkerchief to signal the band's entrance (anyone remember "Gin & Orange?") or go into that Count Basie "One More Time" routine. He would plan the set to get the most impact from the music - something many groups didn't do. (How many times have you sat waiting in the audience while the group discusses what to play next?) Joe Dukes was almost like a "show drummer" - something you don't get from the records - there was a strong visual element to his playing. (Red Holt played a similar role in the original Ramsey Lewis Trio.) The tunes themselves had all kinds of "hooks." He would really work the audience, conscious that the crowd wanted to have a good time. The group always seemed to be well-rehearsed, and, of course, the music could easily stand on its own. Johnny Lytle really didn't need those colored lights, and you don't necessarily have to play the Hammond organ with your tongue. Green's groups pretty much just played the music, without many extra-musical elements, in a solid, professional manner. Although the music they played was very approachable and catchy - Green didn't need to stand on his head. Believe me, the audience always left smiling. Does this make any sense?

Not that this CD needs anymore analysis (the comments and opinions above cover a lot of bases), but my 2 cents... 1) The sound quality is a factor, and probably lessens the impact somewhat. It's certainly acceptable. 2) I agree with Bob Belden's points about the repertoire and audience. I heard Green's groups of this period several times in the kind of venues Belden describes - they usually led off with "Ease Back" and continued with similar material. One time, seemingly out of the blue, they did a 20 minute version of "Fancy Free" which caught me by surprise - later it turned up on the "Lighthouse" LP's - but this wasn't typical of what they were doing. ("Maiden Voyage" showed up on the last "Alive" release, it's in a similar vein.) 3) Green never put on a "show" the way (say) Jack McDuff or Jimmy McGriff would - his group pretty much played the music unadorned. (The Miles Davis of the organ lounge?) But Green always had a big smile on his face when he comped those repetitive figures behind the other soloists, and when Claude Bartee was finished he'd pop the sax out of his mouth with a big grin. 4) Green almost always used Idris Muhammad on his albums - a wonderful drummer in this (and, as it turns out, ANY) setting. But his regular drummers were no slouches, either, just as strong in their own way. I think one of the reasons for the success of the "Lighthouse" session is the drummer from his regular working band. (All in all, I still think that record is the most accurate representation of Green "live" - the extra musicians give it an extra oomph, but Green's quartets were pretty exciting as they were.) 5) Even Grant Green has only so many licks to play over a vamp.

I agree with the view that the past few years (and the CD era in general) has been some sort of "golden age" for jazz albums. There has to be more material available than ever before (and my wish lost seems to dwindle daily). As a kid, buying jazz in the LP era (early '60's on) whole parts of jazz catalogs were out of print or discontinued. (I think I got "Waltz For Debby" as a cut-out!) Today (as one example) we're pissed because we can only get Jutta Hipp at the Hickory House in a couple of versions - 40 years ago it had completely disappeared! Not only is there so much available, it's often loaded with extra material that we couldn't even imagine as kids. (Out-takes from "Kind of Blue" and "Love Supreme" - who knew?) But, as to the original point of this thread, it's all too true that the retail outlets that we all love are pretty much doomed. Let's hope our CD collections don't turn to dust, we may never see so much again.

By the way...Did anyone read the interview with John McNeil in the June "Cadence?" McNeil relates how Van Gelder pretty much screwed up his "SteeplChase" session, and makes him out to be a jerk. True or not, an interesting (and funny) interview.

Thanks MG - you learn something every day!

I thought "Jan Jan" (for me the highlight of the "Lighthouse" double LP) was by "The Fabulous Counts."

A question about that "JSP" reissue (which I finally picked up).... I've read many times about the superior sound of this, but what source is this material "remastered" from? Wouldn't Columbia (or Sony) have the original recordings? In other words, remastered from what??

The only 2 albums I ever got rid of because I didn't like were Cannonball Adderley's "The Price You Have To Pay To Be Free" and Tyrone Washington's "Natural Essence." What was I thinking? Now I keep everything, even when I upgrade.

And the Eddie Davis/Johnny Griffin "Minton's" material.

Alice sounded good - the people sitting next to me thought she out-played Gibbs, but she wasn't quite THAT good. (They did one of those routines where both players play the same set of vibes and trade solos.) It was July of '63, Coltrane opened with "Afro-Blue." I took a picture of the front of the place with the "sandwich" board announcing the double bill - one of those kid's cameras, 120 film (or something) - still have the negative, occassionally pull it out and make a print for someone's birthday; should post it somewhere.

I've read many times that Roy Haynes replaced Elvin Jones during the summer of 1963, but I caught the group at Birdland in July of that year, and Jones was the drummer. So, I guess the above confirms what I sometimes thought I was imagining. (The other half of the bill was Terry Gibbs, with Coltrane's future wife on piano and vibes.)

Jeremy Steig's "Flute Fever" was apparently going to be released by "Collectables" a couple of years ago, but it never materialized. It's a nice quartet session of not over-played jazz standards. ("Blue Seven," for example.) And I also have a soft spot for the Art Farmer group playing jazz "hits" - a couple unreleased tracks from that session showed up on the above mentioned "Time and the Place" double LP reissue.

As much as I like Barry Harris, I'm not sure he's completely at home with some of the choppy rhythm patterns on the album, and I've always wondered what that session might have been like with someone like Cedar Walton or Herbie Hancock. (My original LP, bought when it came out, had a skip in Harris' third chorus of the title cut - I still hear it in my head 40 years later when I play the CD.)

Kenny Burrell disappears for about half of "Back At The Chicken Shack" - does this count?

Picked up the Crusaders and Adderley, both LP's I've owned since their release - always liked them both and the extra cuts are strong, especially on the Cannonball.

"Keep Your Soul..." was out, probably long gone, though.

I have mixed feelings about "Red Clay" (which I've owned in some form since it came out) - great group, good tunes, actually fairly uncompromising considering what CTI would soon become... But Hancock's electric piano, so strong during that period, has always struck me as a little thin, and really colors the date. (The sound is a lot fuller on "Straight Life," but the addition of guitar and percussion may have something to do with the over-all feel.) Also, if I never hear another of those "mysteriouso" (sic?) introductions again...

Maybe the worst sounding CD reissue I have is Nat Adderley's "In The Bag" (an OJC title, originally on Riverside Jazzland), THAT would be a test...

Not that you haven't already long ago figured this out, but George Benson (in the interview in the recently released "Essential...") (a nice collection, by the way - sort of unexpected) confirms that the McDuff "Live" album was indeed recorded in a studio, although with an audience present. (Shades of Captitol Records!) And Joe Dukes told me (many, many years ago) that the follow-up ("Live at the Jazz Workshop") wasn't recorded there, although I didn't press him for the details. No big deal, anyone could figure out from listening that there was something fishy going on.

Am I the only person who finds Davis' trumpet the least interesting part of this music? Probably...

Unfortunately, some of "Black Messiah" is pretty lame, although when it's good, it's VERY good. The album of leftovers that came out later ("Music Y'All") is just as good, and it would be nice to have all of it in one place. (As much as I enjoy the "Zawinul" CD, it leaves out a couple of the best post-"Mercy" performances - "The Scavenger" and "Rumpelstiltskin" (sic), which are much stronger than some of the material included.) (I know, I know, Zawinul himself made the picks..)