jon abbey

to be fair, I believe Jon's record store burned down at one point during that hiatus, which tends to put a crimp in one's plans. running an improvised music label is a very good way to lose money; anyone who does it for any length of time should be commended, not chastised for having to stop. and while I obviously feel for the musicians whose projects were on hold, and I know that Jon wasn't always so responsive to them, they certainly could have taken them elsewhere, it wasn't like other labels were lining up to release them. anyway, I know you guys all pretty much know this already, just felt like putting my two cents in...

any recommendations for those who have never explored the label? limited to what is currently available through ErstDist, say? sure, it's not really my favorite area of music, but there are two I'd definitely recommend: Jeph Jerman-The Second Attention (generally considered his best disc) and Loren Chasse-Hedge of Nerves, I like both of those a lot.

that was the distributor going out of business, the label itself continued to operate until fairly recently, although that's now defunct also.

I'm not especially crazy about the Dorner/Drumm record myself, those guys had (what I thought was) much better material that they could have used, but I was outvoted (ignored). the Drumm/Tetreault, on the other hand, I think is great. I recommended Sheer Hellish Miasma to Jared earlier today on JC, I think that one will blow him away. I like Matt Davis also, but he barely plays trumpet on open, he mostly sticks to electronics there. Axel is amazing live, it's tough to document his experimental playing well on disc. I have a proposed project in the works with him that would be very interesting if it coalesces, I think.

Send it as a present to somebody - jon abbey, for example. oh, you guys! just what I need in my mailbox, more unsolicited crap, how did you know?

just saw this, thanks for the repost! the response has been very strong so far, which is really nice. anyway, I'm happy to answer any questions anyone has or to give pointers as to where to dip in, I check the new EAI thread more than this one...

your wife's name is Traci? try to get her to listen to ErstLive 003 with you when you play it for the first time...

Titles from Erstwhile the label, not Erstwhile the distributor, I'm assuming? rod --- Now playing: Tetzui Akiyama - T.T. yes, sorry, that's why it says "only good for all-Erstwhile orders". we have very small margins on most of the other stuff we stock... what's T.T.? is that an individual track name?

apologies for the promotional message below, but I know you guys enjoy a good sale, especially when it's in semi-worthless American currency. I sent this to my mailing list just now, so if you've ordered from me before, you've already seen it, but in case anyone is interested in dipping an initial toe into the Erstwhile catalog, now's the time: ============================================== OK, in the 5-plus years I've been running Erstwhile, I've never had a sale before, and I don't expect to have one again for a while. but I moved this week, and am having a "I have too much stuff and not enough money" one-time sale, through the end of February, details below. all single CDs are $10, doubles $15, plus my shipping estimate. buy any 5 releases, get an additional single CD free. the box set is still $100 plus shipping, but you also get two single discs of your choice included for free. sale ends last day of February and is only good for all-Erstwhile orders directly through me at ErstRecs@aol.com. no preorders will be accepted; this only applies to releases out now. please e-mail me your orders before sending money so I can tell you the correct shipping. the full catalog is listed here, 010 is OOP, and 004 has only a handful of copies left, everything else I've got... http://www.erstwhilerecords.com/catalog.asp thanks for your time!

I'd personally only describe TD's first record, Electronic Meditation, as "krautrock", after that any rock influence is pretty much gone (if I recall correctly, that's the only album where Conrad Schnitzler is a member). as for the rest of your post, maybe eai's not for you. I strongly disagree with your comments about emotion and soul, but I think they're there, just in a different way from what you're used to hearing. the best eai musicians often have a strong personality (as anyone who's seen a Keith Rowe solo set in the last few years will testify to), but it's often wildly different from project to project, and needs to be pieced together by listening to a bunch of a musician's projects (not that the best CDs don't stand on their own). anyway, if you're still interested, I'd recommend checking out something from the Vienna crew if you haven't already (maybe Too Beautiful to Burn or Wrapped Islands). I agree. I'm not talking about "semi-new" or "partially-new", I'm talking about which areas of a huge field a listener might best connect with. if they're coming from a noise background, I'm going to point them to the Rowe/Beins, the Rowe/Fennesz, or maybe the Lehn/Schmickler (as far as Ersts go). if they're coming from a contemporary classical background, I'm going to point them to Duos for Doris, Hands of Caravaggio, or maybe the upcoming four hour set. and if they're coming from a Euro free improv background, I'm going to point them in the direction of the Europeans before the Tokyo stuff. every person is different, whatever works for you, I'm just trying to help based on my experience.

Chaney, do you like any electronic music? (not meant to be obnoxious, just trying to figure out your perspective)

that's awesome, but that's different. a lot of people think the Tokyo crew is the most interesting scene I document, but they're almost never people with a Euro free background, as on the Funny Rat thread. I'm guessing your friend has familiarity with other aspects of Japanese culture? Jared, you would have enjoyed Tim Barnes playing along to 'Good Night' in the Experimental Intermedia festival in December, great sound system in Niblock's place. I haven't heard the recording yet, maybe an ErstLive candidate... Tony, what did you think of La Voyelle Liquide?

with all due respect, I don't think that the Funny Rat thread gets much into "raucous noise", if at all, which is an entirely different genre. it seems to stick mostly to Euro free improv (as a style, not a geographic location). if you're curious about noise, try a Prurient CD, or Kevin Drumm's Sheer Hellish Miasma at high volume, or most Merzbow, just a few examples...

thanks, Tony, I didn't know those were up. for people coming from free jazz/free improv, interested in this area and not sure where to dip in to begin with, I think the Rowe/Beins is a great starter for the field. (disclaimer, for anyone who doesn't realize it, the Rowe/Beins is on my label, Erstwhile). maybe John B can chime in as to whether he thinks that's true or not...

hey, Rod! and 7/4, are you David B.? I do like going off on Zorn occasionally for Bruce's benefit. on a side note, nice to see Zorn gracing us with a upcoming double CD of outtakes that didn't make the cut for the original ten or so discs of acoustic Masada. I'm not crazy about the Erik M/Fennesz, it's desperately in need of some editing. both have done much better work elsewhere, IMO. John, all three of the musicians have agreed to do AMPLIFY 2005, so it's fairly definite, we just need a venue. I'll focus more on this after I finish moving next week sometime.

I've already been chiming in on the Funny Rat thread when "eai"-related topics come up, so would probably do so here also if this thread continues, assuming that's OK with Kevin, of course. B-)

Fukyo has different meanings depending on which kanji characters are used, "economic depression" or "spreading religion, like Christianity" or "discord, dissonance" (not specifically musical) or another one having to do with military power and economic gain, all according to my wife, a Japanese/English translator.

I read somewhere, maybe this thread, that the editions of those were 5000, so the fact that DMG hasn't seen any over 2000 seems pretty random. if you're desperate, Amazon's German site seems to have them in stock for 18 euros apiece, and possibly less when you check out, since VAT will be removed (this is what happens when you order from their UK site to be delivered to the US, I've never ordered from the German one)... http://www.amazon.de personally, I was kind of hoping the two I wanted, the Art Ensemble-Phase One and Certain Blacks, would show up at Dusty Groove. but they haven't yet, so I snagged the last copies of each when I was at DMG yesterday...

depending on your perspective, of course. I'd recommend the Stangl, the Polwechsel, the Earl Howard, and the Pair A' Dice over the one Nate picks, but my taste is obviously towards improv incorporating live electronics. RA was a very important label in their first incarnation, quite a few of their musicians ended up on Erstwhile six or seven years later, for some with little documentation in between (Stangl and Howard being the main two). I haven't heard those two solo discs, John, I was never too curious about them, for some reason.

"I note your list of fave Bailey discs has a strong Japanese slant! " kind of, I guess, only one of them has Japanese musicians on it, and another has a Japanese dancer. not sure if a solo disc recorded in Japan really counts towards "a strong Japanese slant". maybe part of the reason I like those two (New Sights, Old Sounds and Duo and Trio Improvisations) is that they're better recorded than most of his other records, but I can't say I've ever spent time really checking out this hypothesis. FWIW, Aida's Call (with a lot of overlapping personnel to Duo and Trio Improvisations) is worthless, dreadful sound quality, shouldn't have been released no matter the historic value. but maybe, much like Keith Rowe a couple of decades later, Bailey's exposure to Japanese musicians and Japan gave him the breath of fresh air he needed to rejuvenate his music, filtering into his solo disc recorded there also. I wonder if Ben Watson's bio addresses this at all (my guess is no), when I get my copy back from Mr. Olewnick, I'll take a look...

I already wrote my list of recommended Bailey discs a couple of pages back. I do like Ode, but it's not a place to hear Bailey specifically, as it's a large ensemble.

I'm not a big Kaoru Abe fan, but Masayuki Takayanagi, the other preeminent Japanese free improviser in the seventies, is/was amazing. he independently invented the tabletop guitar, in the mid-sixties in Tokyo when Keith Rowe was doing the same thing in London, neither with knowledge of each other (as best I can determine). Takayanagi was also extremely influential on Otomo Yoshihide, who studied under him for a while until they had a serious falling out, which was unfortunately not reconciled before Takayanagi died (one reason Otomo doesn't talk about him much, because Takayanagi made him promise to never say he was his student). a lot of his stuff has never been reissued on CD, and others are long OOP, but the first one listed here is quite good, and will give you a good idea of what he was up to at his wildest (the second one is good also): http://www.fe.org/artists/takayanagi.new.d...n.masayuki.html

no, to clarify, I said that "a lot of my favorite Bailey is from 1978-1980". I don't like Arch Duo much either.

for more info on Kaoru Abe, check Nick Cain's series of reviews in issue 4 of Opprobrium, archived here: http://www.info.net.nz/opprobrium/html/pri...4_reviewsA.html