The Groper

Conn 500, I enjoy your semi-detachment, but I need to straighten you out re: prurience and the connotations of my handle. I repeat: my nickname long predates Arnold's recent "outing." I have been groping mentally, professionally, financially and maritally for many years. I have been married five times and have no interest in looking for a sixth miserable experience. My conjugal equipment AND libido are in DEEP hibernation.

Christiern, Just read the Chalmers Johnson piece. He refers several times to "a(n) (so-called) arc of instability." IF the United States is an imperialist power, it is of necessity. We have been called upon time and again to confront totalitarian forces in this world, sometimes reluctantly. We have responded to "arcs of instability" because THEY EXIST. Are economic interests at play? Of course. That doesn't taint us any more than any other nation's efforts to participate in world markets. Even the Chinese "Communists" finally woke up to that healthy reality. The political and economic freedom that our military activities engender is the bottom line, not a statistical rant that can't see the forest for the trees.

Well, well, well--dim bulb on the marquee,eh? Sorry to give that impression, Your Deepness. You're wrong, of course, but I'll try to keep my indignation to a minimum. Obviously, you ARE the marquee and guard your status jealously, yea RABIDLY. You are a provocateur par excellence, even though some other posters repeatedly take your bait, stale as it is. Patti, Patti, Patti--I'm delighted you missed me, and only slightly offended at your curt dismissal of my previous comments. You apparently have some of the contentious competitiveness that DEEP exhibits, but you really need an editor. Your repetitious trashing of my (more secure) HOMELAND is tedious. Please consult your many reference books, starting with the dictionary, to properly understand the concept, history and definition of MURDER as practiced through the centuries. Also check out the various entries for PILLAGE, PLUNDER, TORTURE, RAPE and COLONIZATION. See TYRANNY, DESPOTISM and OPPRESSION. Make certain you do your research in a variety of languages, particularly French, German, Russian and Arabic. Now count the number of times U.S. presidents, particularly George W. Bush, are credibly accused of these sins, then carefully digest and THINK before you continue spouting your drivel. PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH--DOING HIS CLEAR-HEADED, CLEAR-EYED DUTY AND IGNORING LIBERAL MYOPIA. THE STATE OF THE UNION IS STRONG!!!

Sister Patricia, Studying history is best, of course. I only offered the movie suggestion AS SYNOPSIS. Why do they want to kill us? That's easy: feelings of inferiority/humiliation engendering DEEP resentment and ENVY. See The Sodomizer as Saladin for the pathology involved.

I believe that the use of "The Sodomizer's" first name by Bush I originated in Arabic custom. Whatever the derivation, I think it is emblematic of the U.S.'s diplomatic efforts over the last (approximately) 14 years to solve the Iraq problem before resorting to armed conflict. Playing his bellicose game of hide and seek, Hussein seemed to invite war. Throughout this extended period we enjoyed the support of many civilized nations, including the U.N. It was only when the U.N. refused to back its own resolutions that we acquired the unjust "unilateralist" tag. Certain key members were afraid to jeopardize their (gasp) ECONOMIC INTERESTS. (I hesitate to even mention that filthy commodity, OIL, to all you pure humanitarian democrats out there.) I'm reminded of a sixth-grade essay that I was assigned to write (ca. 1957), arguing that the U.N. would continue as a successful experiment in world government. It seemed so OBVIOUS to my 11-year-old mind because it was so high-minded. To a buddy of mine the reverse seemed OBVIOUS--that it would founder on fractiousness ala the League of Nations. To understand the ongoing turmoil in Iraq and other Arab nations (unfortunately complicated by the West) you only need watch the ending of "Lawrence of Arabia." THERE'S some fractiousness. Brother Christiern, there are "ideological fog"(s) and there are self-delusions. It's truly obscene to compare The Sodomizer and OUR President, to equate them or even mention them in the same breath/sentence. Forgive my own transgression.

Ah, such a stew of delicious issues...I see that my new friends are passionate and loquacious in their political views, so I'd better not slink off, though I don't have as much free time as some of you apparently do to rant and rave. And since this thread has some reference to "olive branch"(es), I am sucked in by my desire for peace, brotherhood and masochism. I see I am mistaken for Brother Deep by Brother Christiern, among one or more others--despite his protests. It's true, however, that I am a different, but also similar person. Deep shows me an admirable, if savage, view of our nation's essential interests. The Bush administration is protecting our legitimate (sovereign--making other nations' interests secondary) posture throughout the world. It's not always a neat and clean process, but we have no choice. The U.S. was thrust into a position of leadership by the cataclysmic historical forces of the 20th century AND our willingness to confront them. We also just happened to stumble upon the most productive economic system in human history, providing opportunities for a standard of living which continue to draw immigrants from all corners of the globe. (Is it too outrageous to suggest that we need to screen them?) The U.S. and its current administration need to apologize to NOBODY. Speaking of legitimacy, Christiern, Bush was elected under state and federal laws in effect at the time. The fact that the Supreme Court ruled narrowly in his favor only emphasizes the closeness of the election contest, Gore's and his supporters' lack of grace notwithstanding. Unfortunately, the suspicion and paranoia you exhibit is widespread and colors every negative perception of Bush's motives. We STILL enjoy a government of laws, not men. Sister Patricia, I used that question mark only because I couldn't remember for sure if you were the one who brought up Patti Bown. I'm really not very good on computers. In this case I couldn't refer back in the middle of typing my message. I also salute your earnest idealism, but doubt that the U. S. can ever afford to acquiesce to heckling from the sidelines.

My country 'tis of Thee (God, in case you weren't aware) Sweet land of LIBERTY Christiern, why do you squander your (inalienable) right to free speech on petulant BUSH BASHING? How about your considered thoughts on the sources and solutions of repression, brutality, poverty, ignorance and the other major ills BEYOND our borders? Go ahead--light a single candle... SGUD--Glad to make your acquaintance, and I'm sure your views on President Bush are significantly more tempered than those aforementioned. Thanks to Patricia (?), who brought up Patti Bown. I have her Columbia release CS 8208, "Patti Bown Plays Big Piano," which I shall now cue up for the first time in many years. GOD BLESS AMERICA! All Choked Up, The Groper

Dear New Friends, Pardon me for loving and running--or should I say planting a stinker and evacuating? Clinthopson and Christiern: Yes, I am proud of my Germanic heritage. However, I totally disavow Hitler, Nazis and all other forms of totalitarianism, particularly political correctness, the closest I hope the U.S. will ever come to mind control. Arnold is not my hero and "groping" describes my intellect, not my behavior with women. Patricia: You, like so many other bleeding hearts, must learn to connect the dots. The world is a dangerous place and we do ourselves and kin no favor by hiding, ignoring, hoping, appeasing and cynically suspecting. There is no safe haven. There are imminent threats and there are gathering threats, implied and explicit threats. You can't whistle past the graveyard. The U.S. has not killed "thousands" of innocents in Iraq (define "innocents" for me anyway--and don't obfuscate with "the children"). No one can honestly answer the question, "Would you die for this or that cause?" until that supremely existential moment. All I can say is that I served in my country's armed services when called upon. How 'bout you?

Oh, goody--a jazz and politics forum. Or is it politics and jazz? In either case a distinctly heady brew. I just stumbled in, but would like to add my two-cents' worth. President Bush is a LEADER. Disagree with his policies if you like, but you cannot accuse him of DITHERING, like a certain predecessor did (I might include his own father). Since 1979, when our nation was humiliated in Iran, a succession of ditherers has failed to formulate a coherent policy in the Middle East. Meanwhile, theocratic and totalitarian states festered and spawned emboldened terrorists such as the arch-villain bin Laden. After 9/11, the inevitable result of strategic impotence (post-Cold War), President Bush said, "NO MORE!" Like Truman (The buck stops here), he took responsibility for the DEFENSE of this country and like-minded democracies. That is his CONSTITUTIONAL DUTY. (note to the cynical and conspiracy-minded: It's only incidentally about oil). Sure, there are other areas of the world that suffer repression, brutality and a dearth of arts funding, but there is a NEXUS in the Middle East and Saddam's Iraq was the logical place to put a lot of people on notice. Tactics, diplomacy and arguments will come and go, but RESOLVE is understandable in any language. HAIL TO THE CHIEF!