Geoff

I think the reactions on this thread are a bit over the top. I'm only new to this forum, so I am unaware of the board etiquette. I knew that a lot of people (since this is a jazz forum) would know about the albums that I will write up on, and this is by no means a one way thread. More of a call and response thread. I take the time to write a review on an album, and you tell what you think of it, etc etc I just think what some people have said has been pretty mean on someone just trying to pick out some of his favourite under-recognised jazz albums. Alas, this forum can be tough and is one of the major reasons I don't come back very often.

Mal Waldron - The Quest I have chosen 'The Quest' as my first album to discuss. I have chosen it because I believe it offers much in terms of both Mal Waldron's unique compositional skill and style as well as the excellent playing of Waldron and his sidemen for the date. The album is completely comprised of Waldron originals and is a true showcase of his composition. The focus of the compositions vary, while 'Status Seeking' could be considered a 'hard-bop' tune, 'Warm Canto' which features Eric Dolphy on 'ordinary' b-flat clarinet (instead of his usual bass clarinet) sounds almost like the music of pastoral british classical composer Gerald Finzi. The addition of cello (played by Ron Carter) also adds to the almost classical atmosphere of the tune. Still further more Waldron explores other areas, including the soulful 'Warp and Woof'. The final track is none other than 'Fire Waltz', a tune that Eric Dolphy's band (which included Waldron) would play and record at the Five Spot just a few weeks after recording this album. Perhaps it is 'Fire Waltz' that is closest in conception to the music of Thelonious Monk. Mal Waldron's musical technique was even at this relatively early time, greatly influenced by Monk's unique 'stop and start' and 'percusive' technique. Waldron later in his career was one of the most avid of Monk's disciples, and along with another Monk disciple Steve Lacy would often play his music in concerts. Yet it isn't just the compositions that make this album as unique and successful as it is. The performance of the band members are just as remarkable. The band featured a somewhat unique line-up, including a a young Ron Carter playing Cello. A instrument outragiously under-used in jazz music. Ron Carter's cello playing is perhaps (with Dolphy's playing) the most remarkable and unusual characteristic of the album. Ron Carter both plucks, and bows his cello to create a sound that is quite foriegn to the jazz world. It is most unfortunate that the Cello was as unused as it was in jazz, for as exampled in this album it had the potential to be a remarkable instrument used in a jazz context. The solos that Carter plays, especially on the fast paced tunes like 'Status Seeking' the cello becomes almost like a guitar in tone. Eric Dolphy is the other key member of the band. His influence was so strong that for a period the album was reissued under his name not Waldron's. Dolphy's tone is perhaps the most unique in all of jazz music, he is instantly recognisable, and has no contemporary counterparts, that even sound remotely like he did. Indeed unlike John Coltrane, Charlie Parker and other saxophonists, he had no imitators, his unqiue tone, rapid flow of ideas, often shrill bursts of sound has been unmatched. His playing on this album is particularly interesting, and it is fruitful to hear the contrast between his playing and the more conservative, Booker Ervin on this date. Booker Ervin plays with much zest and although he is perhaps overwhelmed by Dolphy, his playing is solid. The constant pulse behind much of the tunes are the two rhythm section members. Bassist Joe Benjamin, plays 'walking bass' throughout the album and although not a primary soloist does what is needed to provide a rythmic background and drummer Charles Persip is impeccable throughout This album recieves a 5/5 rating from me. It is indeed one of the most undervalued albums in jazz music. At least in my opinion.

Jazz often suffers the misfortune of having certain artists canonised, leaving the vast majority in the dark to the mainstream public. Most people even those not interested in Jazz, at least know who Louis Amstrong was, and most I dare say may even know Miles Davis and possibly John Coltrane. The Jazz 'Canon', has in my opinion a negative effect on people first getting into jazz. For much time in the 'conservative' jazz world, it is thought that one must first 'study' the Jazz canon before progressing into the more avant-garde jazz recordings. However, in my opinion this is what destroys jazz, I believe that there should be no Canon, and although I like Miles Davis, John Coltrane and other Canonised jazz musicians, there are a lot of unmentioned jazz musicians that are just as good, if not better than the 'main few'. This thread is dedicated to some of the artists, and recordings that I believe deserve to be as respected and acknowledged as 'Kind of Blue' or 'A Love Supreme'. Both of these albums, are just jazz albums, and they aren't isolated cases of genius. Sure they are wonderful albums, but it doesn't mean that they are the very best jazz albums ever. In fact I would encourage people to delve into the deep end, right at the beginning. Forget about 'set' introductions. There are many ways to arrive to one destination, rather than just one. What I am meaning to say is that some people might think on listening to their first jazz album (whether it be Kind of Blue, A Love Supreme, Sachmo's Hot Five or any other canonised jazz album) and come on the miscomprehension that the sound of these particular albums is what jazz overall sounds like. In reality jazz music is a vastly diverse genre, and representing it with just a few albums could never cover the full spectrum. In this thread, I wish to examine some of the lesser known, underappreciated, neglected jazz albums that have been made. As well as covering albums by so called 'Canonised' jazz musicians, that have been outcasted (is this even a word?) from their main output because it may sound slightly different or be on a smaller label than their 'major works'. I have over 20 albums in mind for this thread, however I feel I can only do justice by talking about one album at a time.

I got the Steamboat/Orange Slice Cd the other day King Ubu. I plan to listen to it in the near future. Thank you again for the effort and time spent to send it to me. Thanks, Geoff.

Hello. I've been listening to Brotzmann's Nipples. I think it is pretty fantastic, and the best thing that Manfred Eicher has ever produced I wish Eicher would have kept a sound like this, rather than starting ECM and the ECM sound. To me this sounds a lot more real, so much music on ECM would sound so much better had there been different production values. Hmm, I'll stop my ECM hating for now.

compared to some things I listen to, Heavy Metal is easy listening. I don't really listen to heavy metal at all, however I do listen to lots of modern 'noise' music, which is often more challanging than anything in the heavy metal catagory.

I have heard around 5 different versions of In C. My favourite would have to be the In C you mentioned, by the wonderful Japanese band Acid Mothers Temple. The original version features Steve Reich in the ensemble. oh yeah and for LaMonte Young, the Well-Tuned Piano is a pretty good album. It is rather long though.

Ghostly Paul Dunmall

Evan Parker playing Tenor Saxophone

One last photo. Totally unrelated to music, but just to show off my photography skills hehe. These were all taken with an unzoomable/no flash disposable camera.

Here is a beautiful written piece of music from Riley. It is part of his keyboard study series.

Here is a picture of Terry Riley with Morton Feldman. As we are discussing him.

Kenny Wheller, the photo was actually taken by me. I didn't use flash, (as I don't like disturbing musicians when they perform). So forgive the poor quality of the photo taking, mostly due to my terrible digital camera (only 1.3 megapixels) and the bad lighting at the Vortex Jazz Bar London.

yeah I guess that is true. I guess I'll just have to beg you to send some copies (via post) of those great out of print jazz albums you own. hehe. an mp3 CD can contain upwards of 10 hours of music, meaning you can put around 10 albums one cd.

You know, there is one big fan of Sade (well, at least her looks) around here (not me, though). (Oh, I sure don't think she looks bad or something...) I started buying jazz whilst at highschool, around 16 or 17 years old, and I stopped counting my CDs a year or two ago. It's in the four digit range, much more than 1000, but I really don't know it more exactly... and I'm NOT A COLLECTOR - maybe that I am an addict or a freak or whatever though Geoff, thanks for the Rzewski recommendations. I'll look for a recording as soon as I can afford. Terry Riley anyone? ubu I like Terry Riley a whole lot King Ubu. My favourite Riley is 'Music for the Gift', which features tape experiments with delay with portions of the Chet Baker Quartet playing Miles Davis' So What. This is amazing stuff. Really interesting. does anyone use instant messanger programs like MSN/AIM in this thread. It is often an easier form of communication than the message forum.

do any of you guys use Soulseek or other mp3 trading software? It would allow for easier recommendations etc. Since most of the stuff we listen to is hard-to-find and often out of print, it becomes the only way we can hear each other's favourite music.

How's that? I always wanted to get this! Is this OOP or not? What recordings do exist? Are there several? Hell, as we are discussing Satie here, and you list such stuff, why not add some minimal music recommendations? Anyone has some particular favorites? Any one heard Rzewski's "Moutons du.." (shit, what's it called again?) Another piece I love is the Reich Marimba one - five, I guess it is. ubu edited (only wanted to have the Rzewski in the quote) There are several versions of Rzewski's The People United Will Never Be Defeated (at least 5) I have heard around 3 versions, one on New Albion (pianist Stephen Drury), one on Hyperion (pianist Marc-André Hamelin) and one on OODISCS (a japanese label, with a japanese pianist Yuji Takahashi). Out of all of them, I favour the Japanese recording.

Mine's bigger but you are a bit older than 19 right?

I bought this Leo Cuyper's album second hand on the cheap. In fact with my budget, I can only afford cds that are on sale, I rarely buy my cds at full price. I quite like the album, although I wouldn't say it was terrific. Just quite good.

I have a pretty cool cd collection for a 19 year old.

Bought some more records from the cheap record shop. Some Jazz some Classical. Hamid Drake and Joe Mcphee - Emancipation Proclamation: A Real Statement of Freedom (on Okka Disk) Evan Parker/Cecil Taylor/Barry Guy/Tony Oxley - Nailed (on FMP) Irene Schweizer & Pierre Favre - Duet (on Intakt) Frederic Rzewski - The People United Will Never Be Defeated (on New Albion) Ruth Crawford/Johanna Beyer - 9 Preludes etc (on New Albion

I had a big big spend day, mostly due to the undeniable attraction of being Free Jazz albums on Hathut, FMP, Intakt, Victo, Atavistic for only $15 Australian each (new!). That is only like $8.50 US per cd! Crazy Crazy Crazy! I bought up, they were selling every cd, even double hathut records that normally price at $40 AUS, for $15, I even got a 3cd set on the avant-classical label Wergo that usually is $50 for $15. I was in heaven, I had too much choice I might go back for more, they have like 20 different hathut albums there, some are now out of print. Alex Von Schlippenbach Trio - Complete Combustion Keith Tippett - Une Croix Dans L'Ocean Peter Brotzmann's Die Like A Dog Quartet - Fragments of music, life and death of Albert Ayler Myra Melford - Alive in the House of Saints (2 CD Hathut) Joe Mcphee & Survival Unit II at WBAI's Free Music Store, 1971 Willam Parker - Possium Pendasem Peter Brotzmann Sextet/Quartet - Nipples Sir Richard Bishop - Salvador Kali Gurdjieff/De Hartmann - Music for Piano: Volume III: Hymns, Prayers, and Rituals (3 cds). I might buy some more tommorow

I really like Bill Evans, he was truly fantastic pianist.

I get more excited about new Rune Grammofon (a label co-owned/sponsored by ECM) than new ECM recordings. Have any of you heard Maja Ratkje's debut album 'Voice' on the Rune Grammofon label? The most amazing vocal album ever.

I was lucky enough to see Kenny Wheller play live with Evan Parker! with Keith Tippett's Mujician band (minus Keith Tippett). It was really interesting to see Wheller play in an entirely 'free context', especially in contrast to much of his solo music which is normally quite structured. He wasn't even listed as playing, he was a guest star on the second set!