chuckyd4

Sometimes jazz is overly intellectualized. Sometimes it is not. Seriously, not to keep beating up on you here, but you should probably elaborate a bit on the original question if you want some serious answers. Who "overly intellectualizes" it? Where is the line between talking about jazz and "overly intellectualizing"? I'm honestly not really sure what your question even means. Not trying to be disingenuous, it's just too vague to make much sense of.

Should have been a poll: 1) Yes. 2) No. I'll go with Yes. Wait... No. Ah crap, I give up.

Glad you found that thread, Chuck. I'd been meaning to direct you it's way, and to thank you for the great shipment of CDs I received a couple weeks back. Seeing as how you have under 100 posts over there and over 5,000 here, I thought it'd be a good idea to send the guy over here - figured he'd get a much quicker response. Was kind of surprised when I saw the edit. I understand not promoting commercial sites, but I think not allowing people to link to another BBS is kind of strange. It's not like it's a competition - I come to both JC and the O, because they play a different role for me... different subjects, different characters, etc.

Bertrand expressed my sentiments exactly... only much more eloquently than I could have. Thanks Fantasy, and I too hope the catalog continues to be treated with the same respect. Oh one thing you didn't mention. All that stuff they've kept in print they've managed to keep relatively affordable as well. Often when I can't afford stuff on other labels, I reach for an OJC I've wanted for quite a while.

For sentimental reasons (long story), I am currently rooting for Ghana's Black Stars. And so far, so good - they are currently heading for a spot in the qualifying finals (forgive me if my terms are wrong, but hopefully you know what I mean). They actually managed to pull out a 2-0 victory back in June over the group favorite South Africa, which is what propelled them into first in their division. All that's left is a match against group worst Uganda, and one against Cape Verde. I think it's okay to use the phrase of Kumasi's professional team here: Wo kum apem, apem be ba. (You kill a thousand, a thousand more will come). Oh yeah, the victory over S.A. was in Johannesburg, as well, so that was especially impressive.

Umm... whoops... sorry, I somehow missed that last post.

Burrell is fantastic - if you're lucky he'll be doing a solo show. He's one of those guys, like Jaki Byard (though totally different style), that just encompasses decades in his playing, moving smoothly between ragtime, free and whatever else. Not a bad composer, either, as his Windward Passages attests. He doesn't play around that often, either, so I'd say jump on it.

This is a very old and very tired argument. IMO, culturally and in their approach to how to make music, hip hop is a clear continuation of what jazz musicians were doing up until about the 60's. In terms of the actual music, though, they are two very different animals. Hip hop is just as much influenced by things like early disco/house, punk rock, soul/funk and a whole host of other things as it is by jazz. Somebody mentioned that they'd heard A Tribe Called Quest, Gang Starr, De La Soul and a lot of other good groups, and still hadn't been impressed. That probably just means that the stuff that's fantastic about the music doesn't interest you - that's not what gets you going about music. Fair enough, and I don't think you're wrong. It's your taste, that's all. Same thing with my friends who love hip hop and don't care about Coltrane, Miles, Mingus or Monk... different strokes and all that. But the tired arguments about how there's no invention in rap music, because sometimes they use samples, etc... are just that - tired. It's a good 30 years old now, and there have been way too many different styles and advances in the music for people to keep trotting out the same old complaints.

That pretty much perfectly sums up my feelings about this record. But then again I have a fair amount of music like that in my collection. At least that ensures that no matter what kind of a mood I get into there will be some kind of music to accompany it.

Okay, I guess most everybody agrees that #5 was a parody, which is really out of line with my first reply. Clearly, something is not right with the saxophone player, but that is actually what I liked about it. Very unusual. Makes me feel like an idiot compared to other peoples' responses, but I'm actually curious to hear him play on other stuff.

Who are we supposed to hate? OP? Hargrove? For me it's neither one, but I love Peterson and sort of like Hargrove on occasion. But Telarc definitely needs better graphic designers. I know it's shallow, but seeing that cover makes me go "meh."

That's funny, as I was reading through this thread I was thinking the exact same thing. That was actually the first bit of Zappa that I bought, and helped me find a few other of his albums that I dig.

A couple of beers and a bottle of wine later, here I come to embarrass myself. Two very different feels on the two discs, but I wouldn't say one was better or worse (except for track 9 on this one - see below). Either way, thanks as always to compilers and distributors. Great stuff. This is the first time I've ever been in on the "ground floor" of one of these. Fun. Track 1: A giveaway? Not really a giveaway. I'd have to be somewhere I could dance like a fool to really listen to this. Reminds me of the feeling I get watching Black Orpheus: happy, maybe a little out of place, but not really caring. Would have been scared to guess the alto player without the help at the beginning. Don't know how anybody couldn't dig this: "happy people," indeed. Track 2: This is a fascinating track - apparently the party is over, at least for all but the most die hard. This is the kind of thing that sends my girlfriend running from the room. I swear that sounds like Stan Getz (at 2:30 in or so), but I can't imagine under what what circumstances he would have recorded something like this. The two tenor blow out at the end is probably the most exciting two minutes of the entire BFT so far. Track 3: Just beautiful (minus the hokey keys - though mercifully mixed way down). I imagine many will say "ick," but the bottle of wine I'm drinking tells me "awwww.... damn." There is a faint echo of revivalism in the rhythm section: listen to the steady strum of the guitar player. This is wedding dance-worthy, and I mean that in the best way. Probably a sax player I own stuff by, but can't blindly ID. Track 4: Great obligatti by the tenor. Don't know my singers very well, obviously. Fine bop-based piano. What is that quote at 2:20? That's gonna drive me crazy: well-known standard. Like the mix of fine articulation and off-kilter pitch in the singer; just this side of the contrived singing that bothers me so much. Not great, but a fun listen. Track 5: The stuttering, funk/blues-inflected trumpet phrases say Freddie Hubbard to me; and another standard I should know. Same tenor from the last track? This really cooks, and is an album I will buy once revealed - worth the 12+ minutes. Knowing Jim's love for the Marsh, I quickly thought that in the head, but the solo proved me wrong. Great left-hand bumpy work in the piano solo. If this is Hubbard, no wonder he busted his chops at some point; absolutely blistering. Like I said, I will buy this. Track 6: Guess I should think this is exciting, but it kind of wears on me; think I'm just not in the right mood. Like where the piano in the left channel is playing that balladic stuff around 3-4 minutes in and the right channel keeps going with that incessant line. Kind of Stanley Cowell-ish, but I'm tired after listening to this one (unlike most Cowell I've heard). Not enough direct interplay for me. Track 7: How many sopranos are there, really? Feel like I should know this one, eerily familiar. Again, I'd liek to hear the whole album here: reminds me of the Akiyoshi-Tabackin big band, one of my favorites. Too short to say much else, but it hits that special spot. Track 8: Nice African influence (bass & percussion), via the Caribbean (steel pans). Sounds like an Ibrahim (Brand) percussion section (the ostinato especially), and makes me want a cool drink and the beach. Most importantly, this is the kind of band I'd like to be in, cause iot would just be so much damn fun to play in. A quick Google search brings up Andy Narell; maybe him? The 'bone solo is fantastic. Really nice, sustained groove. Track 9: Oh God... no. Is it bad if I laughed? Totally kills my mood. An 11 minute track approximately.... 11 minutes too long. You have better taste than me, but this makes me wonder. I mean God, I even like Rush, but this is dreadful. Even sounds like Sonny Rollins on tenor, in slightly calypso mood (I guess the connection with the last track), but as if you put late-Rollins in a blender, with only the worst elements, just to see what came out. If that is a keytar, I might just take back all the nice things I said about this test. Seriously, I am now interested for the answers just to see what possible justification there is for this monstrosity. Next... Track 10: Whew... much better. A little Lifetime-y in the rhythm section. Oh my jeezus, if I couldn't get George Adams from that tenor, I'd hang it up. I think? All that time spent with the Pullen-Adams group must be worth something: love his rootsy, swirling and totally surprising approach. No idea about the rest of the group, but seems worth a listen. 2:00-2:30 give the tenor as Adams to me. Not exactly my cup of tea, but I'd like to hear how they handle some different tempos, etc. beofre I hang it up. This is a tune Clifford Brown recorded but I can't come up with the name. Track 11: Not much to say here. Didn't really need it, but I assume you had a reason. Whew... 2 discs of fun, with a lot of great tunes in there. I really appreciate your broad taste, even within a "jazz" context, and imagine it would be fun to drink a 6 pack at your place, digging through your LP collection. Interested to see what others have to say.

I feel okay adding to this thread if Mr. Sangrey himself has added something to it. I listened closely a couple more times to this one, based on the clue, and I'd have to go with Lockjaw again, even though I already guessed him on an earlier track. If I'm right on that, I'd have to stick to my earlier impression of "I like the tenor."

Sorry, I guess, for posting my first set of responses to Disc 1. Didn't read this thread first, as I assumed if the discussion threads were open, that meant we could post in them. I don't really get what the big deal is, though. This is my 3rd BFT, and on the others people have posted before I received my copies... just takes a little self-restraint not to peek and see what everybody else is saying.

Thanks to Guy for sending this my way, and to Jim for putting it together obviously with a lot of thought. Only had time to listen to it once all the way through, so these are really initial impressions - don't do much guessing, cause I'm bound to get most of them wrong. Track 1: "How High the Moon," of course, taken at a fast clip. Ironically (considering the board) I have a pretty high ignorance of organ players. But maybe Kenny Burrell on guitar? Smoking groove: I really dig the unison lines near the end, trading bars with the drummer. I need more of this kind of thing in my collection. Track 2: Okay, it's clear who it is, obviously, but not even close to anything I've heard from him before. So I'm guessing "cheesecake" is a double entendre I've never heard? Track 3: I really like the bari player's vibe here, but not tons else for me to go on: something about being a fatso? From all the cheesecake? Track 4: Sounds like latter day Sonny a bit, but almost too gruff in parts. Don't know if it's just the quality of the recording, but the rhythm section sounds a little disjointed and sloppy. Seems like with the kind of thematic development going on here it's someone who listens to a lot of Rollins. I don't like the guitar, but the band really seems to get it together as things go on: the alto solo is a particular highlight. Track 5: Aggravatingly familiar alto palyer - can't put my finger on it, but I love the sliding in and out of notes, the pithy twist-off of certain phrases. Sounds like the MJQ minus Jackson in the trio section, that restrained but swinging classical elegance. I know the tune too, but can't name it off the top of my head. Track 6: Strong swing-era background with more modern influences. Big Charlie Christian fan on guitar. I feel like the changes are familiar. I love loose jam sessions like this. The time period is really hard to pin down here, and that stylistic ambiguity is probably my favorite element. Don't like the fade out. Track 7: Okay, now we're up in the rock/R&B era, obviously. This has a wicked "come hither" expression written all over it; not everyone can pull off this vibe so well. Oh shit - I love that bass groove about 3 minutes in: kind of in n out, nahmean? Humpty dance, jazz style. Track 8: The conflicting saxes really don't do it for me. I would need to hear the singer on her own. Like an Ellington songbook with too much to drink. The alto solo is really excellent. Track 9: Ooohhh... I dig the chart here. Serious energy. Basie-ite economy in the rhythm section, with total swinging abandon on top. And it sounds like Lockjaw flying over it all, so I'll stick with that guess. Maybe Thad Jones on flugelhorn? Okay this sounds a little too modern for even New Testament Basie, but maybe a tribute: wish it was longer! Track 10: Sounds like movie scorish type writing here from the 70's. Love the flexibility of the rhythm section, the different feelings they get into. Reminds me of some suave cat walking down the street tipping his hat to all the foxy ladies: very swinging stuff. Not much else to add. Track 11: Oh nice, "Hi Fly," right? Interesting instrumentation on it, too. Track 12: Big Tyner influence here - maybe it's just the waltz tempo, but reminds me of the Coltrane quartet stuff, and the way they could kill those ballads. Why can't I name the tenor player though? Such a memorable tone. Track 13: Is that a celeste? Is "hmmm..." an acceptable response? Track 14: Boogie blues shuffle, baby. Guess you were hungry when you put this together: cheesecake and R.M. Oysters? No thanks. Meat that got no bone - nasty, dude, seriously. Like the tenor player though. Track 15: That's weird, sounds like a mix of organ and keyboard, maybe it's just his really light touch. Is that Stanley Turrentine? That's my guess. One of those tracks I don't have much to say about but that is perfect lying in bed smoking a cigarette to. Thank you Mr. T: probably my favorite track on this disc. Just so hard to get this vibe just right. Absolutely my favorite track. Track 16: Mercifully short. Sorry. Track 17: Beautiful duet: love the breathless suspense of this one. That's real emotional honesty there. Okay, in defense of my ignorance and not very informative responses, I wrote these notes last night after a six pack of Japanese beer and a pint of cheap brown rum. I'm on to listening to disc 2, which is fascinating so far. Thanks again to Jim: always an awesome selection and a fair share of bona fide gems in there. Coolest part is I'm sure I have none of this in my collection, so it will be good for used LP hunting.

Well the store I went into yesterday was playing a Jaap Blonk cd at top volume, so even when they are playing improvised music it can sometimes be hard to concentrate on what you're looking at. It clearly did what it was supposed to, though, as I walked out buying 5 cds, including a Steeple Chase, a Soul Note and a Leo each under 10 bucks.

Social Studies was my first - and still my favorite - Carla Bley disc. I just love the conciseness (concision?) to it, the enjoyable compositions, and the cerebral but still firey playing by all. When I first bought it, I was absolutely knocked out by the unique sound she gets from her group, and I had it on repeat for a good couple weeks. Always been a personal favorite since then. Though I would also second the recommendations for European Tour 1977. As for more recent stuff, I really dug Looking for America and to a lesser extent 4x4. I've always been interested to give the Big Band goes to Church disc a try.

The "Carnet de Routes" records (both mentioned above - on Label Bleu) are probably my favorites. They're a little less "out" than the ECMs, and are just chock-full of incredible grooves and some brilliant playing by Sclavis over the top. If you don't fall in love with him listening to those, I wouldn't know what to suggest.

I don't really know if science fiction buffs would consider him a science fiction writer - I somehow never really got into the genre, more out of ignorance than any dislike for it - but Jonathan Lethem seems to straddle the line you're talking about. His last few books are definitely on the "literature" side of things, but he had some really cool ideas in his early books that I think would fall into what you're talking about.

Kind of on that same topic, I just got a tape of a show of the Woody Shaw quartet with Muhal Richard Abrams on piano (thanks Relyles!!!). I'm *very* interested to hear how Abrams will do in this context. I don't think I've ever heard him in such a straight ahead setting (though of course Shaw could play more "out" when he wanted to).

Hahaha that was excellent (the Zappa clip). The more things change...

Walden has very rarely let me down, so I would guess it's a safe bet. Although I haven't heard this particular session, and haven't heard anything he's done in a couple years, so not really sure what direction he's headed in at this point. If he's kept developing like he was, though, should be a great listen.

Never participated in one of these AOTW things before, but the particular choice caught my eye - glad to see Steve picking one of the "classics," reminds me of my early days on jazz boards. Don't have much to say at the moment, as I haven't listened to a Hemingway disc in probably at least a year or two, but I just put this one on, am still on the first track, and am remembering how great this group was. I really love the dynamics on this one.. the way the whole group seems to move together. Good stuff.

Good googly-moogly...