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Everything posted by Spontooneous
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Messiaen /Loriod Early(?) Piano Recordings
Spontooneous replied to JSngry's topic in Classical Discussion
Looks as if they only recorded those few numbers at the time. (Reminds me of the spotty discography of Bartok excerpts recorded by the composer.) https://books.google.com/books?id=nFiiAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT381&lpg=PT381&dq=yvonne+loriod+discography&source=bl&ots=vdeJGg-vNH&sig=Lw7drCcbOaLCz4Dh1VQYN509r2k&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiEv9Hl-Z3KAhUB3CYKHVSKDKIQ6AEIlQEwBg#v=onepage&q=yvonne loriod discography&f=false -
Elliot Carter Nonesuch Retrospective...Thoughts?
Spontooneous replied to greggery peccary's topic in Classical Discussion
Wasn't aware of this box. Thanks! I'd shell out almost that much for the Paul Jacobs solo pieces alone. One caveat: The Nonesuch performance of the great Double Concerto has always seemed to lack drama. Hear the second Columbia recording if you can. (It's in the big Sony Charles Rosen box.) -
Anyone who hasn't yet heard the performance of "Time After Time" linked in the fifth post of this thread is hereby urged to hear it immediately, repeatedly and often.
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1. No guess. But the playing and singing are better than fine, the whole thing coheres, and I really like that little bit of cello around the edge. There's a moment of beautiful trumpet-cello improvised counterpoint near the end that's what it's all about. 2. At first I thought the altoist was Bobby Watson. Later, as the player reached for ever higher notes, I thought it was Gary Bartz. I see somebody ID'd it – the player is known to me only as somebody in the small print on a Tapscott album. 3. You're just trying to see how many times you can make me say "Bobby Watson," right? Because this is the real Bobby Watson playing a real Bobby Watson composition, "Time Will Tell," with the real Jazz Messengers on the real Roulette label. 4. Harold Land's tone is conspicuous (yeah!). It's that Concord record that doesn't sound like a Concord record. And I see Bill F. figured it out first. 5. No idea who it is – part Sarah, part Dinah, part Nancy -- but I should probably be collecting this singer. 6. "Angel Eyes," Billy Harper with Art Blakey on a recording that's made the rounds of the bootleg labels. 7. Senor Blues. Organist with an acoustic bassist, suggesting Shirley Scott. I see Bill got there first. 8. Is this a real Blue Note, or a very accurate re-creation of the RVG sound? From that tenor solo, I thought for sure this was on the Tyrone Washington album, but no. Never heard 7/4 time boogaloo'd quite like this. This needs to be in my collection. 9. I'm suspecting a Detroit Tribe thing here. Belgrave, Ranelin, Wendell Harrison, Harold McKinney, none of the above? The first 30 seconds of that trumpet solo are priceless. 10. No guess, but I like the attitude. 11 From the Butterfield Blues Band classic "East-West." At this point in my life I'm disappointed that they chose to blow on blues changes instead of the "Work Song" changes. But there's some joyous innovation going on here nonetheless, in the barrier-breaking attitude and in the geetar department. Many thanks for a BFT that will keep reverberating in my brain!
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I'm absolutely in love with that tenor solo on "Mean to Me." I've seldom heard the lessons of Lester applied so well. The phrasing, to a beat of the soloist's own, could come from Warne Marsh. Though the tone doesn't sound like Warne's. Somebody like Richie Kamuca? (BTW, Jeff -- Nice transfer of that Eddy Howard 78. Hoping to get my own transfer rig going soon.)
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Wasn't until the second listen that Track 5 kicked in for me. The guitarist is Charlie Christian, and it's the session where he accompanied Eddy Howard. Rest of the band is Benny Morton, Edmond Hall, Teddy Wilson, Billy Taylor on bass, Yank Porter, Oct. 4, 1940. It's kinda funny how many times Columbia Records miscast its pop singers as jazz singers. Think also of what Columbia did with Aretha, and that Johnny Mathis-Gil Evans session.
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BFT 140 - Discussion of Straight No Chaser
Spontooneous replied to jeffcrom's topic in Blindfold Test
More later, but for now... Straight 2 is the Teddy Charles Tentet on Atlantic. Straight 3 makes me very happy, whatever it is. -
Just in time to get some responses under the wire... I wish I liked it better than I do. Chops and bravado, but I was hoping for something else. Is that Paquito? No guess, but those moments of piano/bass counterpoint are really beautiful. This is probably my favorite thing here, for the writing and the wonderful trumpet solo. First chorus is Getzian indeed, but things are very different after the fine piano solo. Some turns of phrase make me want to say it's George Adams. Or somebody who's really studied him. The chart sounds like something Walter Davis or Bobby Watson would have made for the Messengers, and there's some Blakey in the drumming. But there's also some hyperactive Tony Williams footwork. I'm intrigued. I'm mystified, but I love the touch of toy piano. Is it electronic sounds all the way, or are there some acoustic things at the beginning that gradually disappear? I kinda like it – especially the drive for impossible velocity – and wish it didn't lose so much momentum so soon. This is waaaaay cool, feels really good after the last 3. I know, HP identified it. But seriously -- aren't those really the changes of "Besame Mucho"? Pleasant late '70s vibe. Is that a Wurlitzer, not a Rhodes? Curious how different that piano sounds in different registers. Is the tenor Ricky Ford? Much pleasure here on County Road 139! Thanks for a really good BFT. Looking forward to the reveal.
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The #1 Song on the Day You Were Born
Spontooneous replied to duaneiac's topic in Miscellaneous Music
Toccata and Fugue in D minor -
TRACK SEVEN -- "Language of Love," Ben Allison and Man Size Safe, comp. Steve Cardenas, from "Little Things Run the World," Palmetto. August 2007. Allison, b; Ron Horton, tp; Steve Cardenas, g; Michael Sarin, d. A haunting composition from Cardenas, and Ron Horton really gets into it. Cardenas is a Kansas City friend, in school at the same time I was. We used to pay him terrible pittances to play for our student poetry readings, and he would play his ass off anyway. I wish I had a recording of the way Allison and Cardenas played this tune together in KC a couple of months ago. TRACK EIGHT -- "Kitty on Toast," Horace Henderson and His Orchestra. Okeh 78; this transfer is from the Classics CD. Chicago, Feb. 27, 1940. Henderson, p, arr; Emmett Berry, Harry "Pee Wee" Jackson, tp; Ray Nance, tp, vln; Edward Fant, Nat Atkins, tb; Dalbert Bright, cl, as; Willie Randall, as; Elmer Williams, Dave Young, ts; Hurley Ramey, g; Jesse Simpkins, b; Oliver Coleman, d. My weakness for jazz violin is known. Ray Nance didn't stay hidden for long here – was the pizzicato lick a giveaway? This is from the Classics CD, but I first heard it on an Okeh 78 that gave Ray a solo credit on the label, which was unusual then. TRACK NINE -- "Kids Are Pretty People," Billy Mitchell, from "A Little Juicy," Smash Records. Comp. Thad Jones. Thad, tp; Mitchell, ts; Richard Wyands, p; Kenny Burrell, g; Herman Wright, Oliver Jackson, d. August 1 or 6, 1963. And so we hear from Thad again. This pre-dates the more famous big-band version. Maybe a couple of touches in the arrangement are too cutesy. The guitar spot got unusually much attention. I'm taken with the rapport demonstrated by Thad and Billy Mitchell over several sessions together, and I wish this album would re-appear on CD. TRACK TEN -- "And Things Will Change," Carmell Jones with the Erich Kleinschuster Sextet, comp. Carmell Jones. Recorded January 1969 for the weekly "Jazz Mit Erich Kleinschuster" program on Austrian Radio (ORF); issued by Universal in "Joe Henderson/Carmell Jones/Clifford Jordan & The Erich Kleinschuster Sextett." With Kleinschuster, tb; Robert Politzer, tp, flh; Hans Salomon, ts, bcl; Fritz Pauer, p; Jimmy Woode, b; Erich Bachtragl, d. In 1981, when I didn't know the first thing about jazz, I was a young obituary writer for the newspaper in Kansas City. One afternoon we heard that a local jazz musician had died, and I was tasked with finding another jazz musician to give us some quotes for the obit. A senior editor, the wonderful, wonderful James W. Scott, came to my rescue by handing me a slip of paper with Carmell's phone number. Jim explained that Carmell was famous in Europe but had just come home, and hardly anybody here knew who he was. I guess I didn't make a fool of myself on that phone call, because Carmell remembered me and was always very kind and forthcoming with me. And as I got older and slightly smarter, I made it my business to hear him on as many occasions as possible. So this track is here in memory of a friend. I'm guessing the second brass solo here is Politzer. This is on a double CD set that's well worth seeking out, not just for almost a full album's worth of Carmell originals you can't hear elsewhere, but also for performances by Joe Henderson and Clifford Jordan that aren't overshadowed by their other work. TRACK ELEVEN -- "Yardbird Waltz," Jay McShann. Comp. McShann. From "McShann's Piano," Capitol. McShann, p; Charlie Norris, g; Ralph Hamilton, Fender bass; Paul Gunther, d; Jesse Price, d. (Cover doesn’t say which drummer plays on which numbers.) Recorded August 1966. Another Kansas City connection. McShann recorded very little in the 1960s, and this album on Capitol, produced by Dave Dexter, came and went pretty quickly. The drummers were Kansas Citians; I'm not familiar with the guitarist or bassist. Yes, what a peculiar guitar sound. This is a nice example of the things McShann could do when he didn't have an audience that insisted on him playing nothing but blues. TRACK TWELVE -- "Trinity," Jennifer Koh. Comp. Ornette Coleman. From her CD "Violin Fantasies" on the Cedille label. In memory of Ornette. Here we have his language, couched in an unexpected sound. I confess, I've misplaced the CD so I don't have access to the liner notes just now. Is this named after the river that runs through Fort Worth? Thanks again and again to all who listened and responded.
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Y'all made this one look a lot easier than it was. As I write this at midday on the last day of the month, every track has been partially or completely identified except for 7. It's a privilege and a pleasure to have such a perceptive circle of online friends. You blow my mind sometimes, and it feels so good. Unadorned text for now. I'll try editing later to add album covers. TRACK ONE – "Cherokee," Joe Marsala Sextet, Jan. 12, 1945, for the Black and White label. Marsala, cl; Dizzy Gillespie, tp; Chuck Wayne, g; Cliff Jackson, p; Irv Lang, b; Buddy Christian, d. This transfer is from an old, cheap Pickwick reissue CD. I started collecting jazz in the 1980s, and started with bebop. And I've always collected 78-rpm records, even when I was a kid. This performance became one of the first jazz 78s I owned, so it's here for sentimental and musical value. It's a strange amalgam of swing players and some who were looking further ahead. Over time, I've come to appreciate how remarkable it is that this session happened this way and that the music didn't somehow implode. This is five months before the Dizzy-and-Bird bebop declaration of independence at the Shaw Nuff-Salt Peanuts-Hot House session. Sangrey's comment nails it: "bebop solos over chunkchunk "swing-to-bop" rhythm section, and nobody's bothered by it at all, it seems. Probably because everybody was still working it out and hadn't yet wholly settled on "do"s, still working on eliminating the "don't"s. Happy people when things are in that stage, sometimes." Nice to see Chuck Wayne getting some propers in the comments – wonderful touch and invention in this solo – and he deserves them for having his bop pretty well together at an early stage. TRACK TWO -- "New Morning," Johnny Coles, comp. Coles, from "New Morning" on Criss Cross. Dec. 19, 1982. Coles, flh; Horace Parlan, p; Reggie Johnson, b; Billy Hart, d. Number one, I have no idea what kind of gong is being used here. I assume it's being struck by the leader. Sometimes this track sounds just wonderful to me, sometimes it sounds "off." Can't explain that. The drum solo proved very unpopular. TRACK THREE -- "Blap," Jimmy Smith, comp. Smith, from "Portuguese Soul" on Verve. Feb. 8, 1973. Unidentified big band, arranged and conducted by Thad Jones. Really, it's one of the better JOS albums, and it continues to fly under the critical radar. The ugly cover might have something to do with it. But Jimmy goes at this one with everything he's got, and listen to the band respond! Let's talk about the unidentified band! That's no bunch of studio hacks. Also, note the subtle presence of a good pianist. And hear how they seem to be responding on the fly to prompting from Thad, just like the Thad-Mel band did. Could it be Thad-Mel band? Then come the horn soloists, the "unemployment stick" as TK called it, and the tenor who struck several people immediately as being Billy Harper. Another pointer to the Thad-Mel band. And just listen to that drumming. I admit it, I've been obsessed with identifying the uncredited players on this one. Because it sure sounds like the Thad-Mel band. I played this for several trusted friends, and all of them agreed, sounds like Thad-Mel. A few weeks later, one of those friends went to a Cookers gig and asked Billy Harper about this recording. Billy's answer: This is the full Thad-Mel band. The soprano is Jerry Dodgion, Billy is the tenor. The other tenor, heard in solo on the other side of the record, is Ron Bridgewater. Another friend, who knows Jerry Dodgion, has also promised to ask Jerry about this date. Now give the album another listen in light of this. TRACK FOUR -- "Careless Love," Boots and His Buddies. Oct. 28, 1938, their last session, for Bluebird. Clifford "Boots" Douglas, d; Lonnie Moore, Percy Bush, tp; George Corley, tb; Clifton Chatman, cl; Wee Wee Demry, as; Sam Player, Baker Millian, ts; A.J. Johnson, p; Jeff Thomas, g; Walter McHenry, b. That's the personnel as listed on the Classics reissue, but I think there's a second trombone in there. "Street music" in the best sense, as Sangrey said. The charm and energy survive the recording process and the ravages of time. The banal arrangement and a couple of slight disagreements over where the groove lies don't matter. Boots' beat may have sounded quaint to some even by 1938. But then there's Baker Millian, the guy who consistently lifts this band above itself. Yeah, Boots! TRACK FIVE -- "Killer Bunnies," Jack Walrath and Spirit Level. Comp. Walrath, from the album "Killer Bunnies" on Spotlite. May 1986. Walrath, tp; Paul Dunmall, ts; Tim Richards, p; Paul Anstey, b; Tony Orrell, d. Yes, I'm a sucker for contrapuntal compositions. And I'm also a sucker for the way the whole band jumps into this one. A happy product of one of Walrath's trips overseas. The whole album is very fine. If anyone's ever noticed that my handle on this board comes from another Jack Walrath album, they haven't mentioned it to me. TRACK SIX -- "Tastalun," Wadada Leo Smith, from "Divine Love," ECM. September 1978. Smith, Lester Bowie, Kenny Wheeler, tp. I'm glad these three got together in one room at the same time and did some telepathic improv. The last minute or so really gets to me. Oh, and it reminds me of the time I had three cats, and how they were fascinated by the sound of Harmon-muted trumpets. I'm thinking it's Wadada in the middle, Lester on the left, Kenny on the right, but Nick thought otherwise, and there's plenty of room for that. If anybody has hard info, please speak up.
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Another domino falls.
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What MG said.
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At least two members of this board partook on Thursday. Not namin' names.
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Already identified. The guitar solo seems to be getting a lot of attention, and I'm fine with that, though the trumpet is the star to my ears. Also identified. That drum solo is turning out to be very unpopular. I'll admit to being hot and cold on this track -- some days it sounds "off" and some days it sounds wonderful. Already identified. Jimmy Smith, not playing on cruise control. Everybody, pay close attention to that uncredited band! The heavy-footed drummer was the leader, so I suppose nobody could tell him he was turning it into a beer-garden band. At least there's no tuba. And there's the matter of that tenor player. Nobody's identified 7 yet, and I'm a little surprised. Perceptive. Maybe a little bit ahead of its time, certainly pointing to things to come for the soloist. Maybe some cutesiness in the writing, but I'll cut Thad some slack. Two trumpet soloists, I'm pretty sure. Thom Keith picked out Carmell Jones as the first. Oh, it's real. He could play a swinging waltz or a beautiful ballad whenever he had an audience that didn't insist on him playing the blues all the time. Maybe a small clash of languages here, player's versus composer's. The composer is the reason for its inclusion. The dancing girls quit when they heard the tempo on "Cherokee." Ding ding ding! Now all my 78s here are identified. I have some of the Boots 78s, but not this one, so I don't have another audio source to check those stumbles. Yes, this audio is from the Classics CD. I always assumed the stumbles were simply Boots and His Buddies being Boots and His Buddies, corny arrangement, lumpy rhythm and all. These guys are still endlessly charming. I imagine there were a lot of people on certain parts of this Earth who never had better nights than the ones they spent dancing to this band. Ding ding ding! Yes, it's McShann, in the 1960s when he barely recorded.
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Sorry I'm so slow getting back on this one. Needed some time away from the Internet. Silly but true, I'm very glad somebody commented on the 137 icon. The drum solo seems to be a sticking point for a lot of people. I didn't mean it that way, but it's always interesting how the BFT comments even make you hear your own selections differently. "Loveless Love" aka "Careless Love," yes. I admit it, there's a corniness factor here, and a clunky rhythm section, and a tenor player who overcomes all. On another point, you're speaking for me too. On reflection, I realize that cartoon music was a big early part of whatever musical education I have. IIRC nobody has identified this one. The bassist is the leader. In my mind, I can see the leader on this one sitting on that porch. Maybe I should be surprised that 12 hasn't generated more comment, maybe I shouldn't. Thanks for not shying away from it. The true identity will be surprising yet somehow very unsurprising. Thanks for driving down Highway 137 with me.
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One of the three, yep.
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Yes. Pick a point somewhere between the two, turn south, and you'll be in the neighborhood.
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I had always assumed the leader was in the middle, and I was thinking Lester on the left. But assuming is no good. May be as many opinions as there are listeners on this one. I hope Manfred resisted the temptation to move them around in mid-improv.
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Not such a wild guess. You're right all the way around.
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I'll admit to having spent some counterproductive time wondering where the title "Kitty on Toast" came from... Wasn't aware of that Ellington side, which is a hoot. Is that a Don George lyric?
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http://defamer.gawker.com/sony-pictures-is-excited-about-its-biopic-on-iconic-si-1722457350
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Yeah, that's why I like this one. And the sentimental value -- for some reason, the 78 of this was one of the first jazz records I owned. (This was in the 1980s, mind you.) Yes, the "Portuguese Soul" album, which was totally unknown to me until a few months ago. Yes Billy, according to Mr. Harper himself. Now, what of the uncredited band "arranged and conducted by Thad Jones"? Not New Orleans, not Herschel or Chu. Lesser-knowns. But I love these guys. And yeah, recorded evidence suggests the tenor player stood out every tune, every time. Hoping Jeff Crompton will blow through town and ID this one. No George or Hannibal. Vaguely European, yes. But maybe just vaguely. This track sounds very different to me every repetition. Try again and see if the same thing happens to you. The Bacharach thing hadn't occurred to me, but I guess it was always in my subconscious. Now I have to ask the guy who wrote the song about it. It's Mr. Floorshow, but Duke hadn't gotten there yet when this was made. Still waiting for a fuller ID. Michael Weiss provided the ID. Interesting that a couple of people were reminded of Golson. Also interesting that people are picking up the there-but-not-there quality of Burrell's playing. It seems that way throughout the album. A vibe problem, like maybe the rest of the band was mad at him, or he at them. Thom Keith has a partial ID. Mmm-hmm. Yes, I'd bet money or property that this album was the producer's idea. But a good idea nonetheless. There seems to be general reluctance in BFT land to dealing with this track, and that's OK, I expected that. The player certainly didn't grow up in the jazz language, but the connection here is profound. The composer is "Somebody not unfamiliar with American Popular Song and not wholly immersed in it," yes yes yes! A whole life devoted to "options instead of restrictions." You got it. Muchas gracias.