K1969

I feel for you. Jeeez. I can't offer any practical help but I can offer therapy. It sounds like you have "latent shock syndrome" - you should check into the vinyl fuck-up clinic. They have a bed waiting for you. The link's here - click to share your pain Vinyl fu@#-ups support group session is now open., Let's help each other cope.

Donald - if you get a chance to hear it again give "Piece of mind a try" Once you get past the so so melody it really takes off and Grover's soprano solo is SOOO good. It's the kind of LP that I had sitting on the shelf for years, playing only Lorans' Dance until one day I forced myself to check the other tracks. glad I did. Piece of mind really rewards a second chance. True that Loran's Dance is up there with the angels. Great intro, Great melody, GREAT Washington solo (one of his best ever), Great finale. It's the kind of piece that makes you think half way through hearing it for the first time, "no God please don't make them have a drum solo or a sped up latin section with cuica..." ....and..... it doesn't! Just holds it together, building and building and building.... MAJESTIC!

Or Leaks like a child Donald Byrd - Ethiopian Dykes Grant Green - Carryin' Syphilus

This is a rare thing. A deep, un-chinsy, workman-like, commercial jazz fusion LP. It isn't the experimental Weather Report / Return to Forever type fusion that the critics liked. Rather it's the accessible radio "jazz-funk" that they usually panned as muzak. Recorded in 1974 - a real transition year - Muhammad had recently quit Prestige at the end of the soul-jazz era and Gover Washington was about to plunge into smooth jazz (boo, hiss!). Unlike other Creed Taylor produced LPs from the same period, it doesn't suffer from over production. There are few if any strings; no tacky vocalisations; the arrangements are unobtrusive and there is LOTS of solo space. Grover Washington's soloing is really exquisite - highly structured and melodic. Muhammad's drumming is restrained and sensual. Bob Jame's brooding electric piano is brilliant, adding colour and attitude with minimalist, single hand playing that you could never get away with on a regular piano - he virtually turns it into a completely new instrument. Most of the grooves are subtle and mellow - but the soloing is very emotional and expansive. On a side note, because of the calming effect of the LP, I remember reaching for it on the evening of 9/11 to try to settle my nerves, but I nearly dropped it when I realized that Muhammad was staring out at the twin towers! Up until then I had never paid attention to the bland cover.

What I don't understand is why the quote doesn't read: I mean, unless he had an axe to grind. Simon Weil Or unless, as has been posited elsewhere, he's never been a particularly "careful" and/or "eloquent" writer. Hey, people say broad-brushed shit like that all the time in casual conversation, and if it's somebody you know, you learn to let it slide, knowing as you do the difference between what they "mean" and what they "say". I've been following Cuscuna's career for about 35 years now (without knowing him personally), & I'd like to think that this is the case here - that he comitted something to print that is the equivalent of an off-the-cuff, un-nuanced bit of casual conversation. What he "meant" & what he "said" is something you gotta infer based on "knowing" the person. If it had been dropped in casual conversation, & if it was somebody I "knew" as well as I feel I "know" Cuscuna, I'd just let it drop/pass unless I either wanted to stir the pot for a bit of lively & friendly ball-busting or else I just wanted to be a disrespectful asshole. That this comment was made in print rahter than in casual conversation raises the level of "responsibility", and that's why I have no problem whatsoever with calling the cat out, and loudly, on his sloppiness. But afaic, anything beyond that is still either friendly ball-busting or else just being a disrespectful asshole. Well, the fact is Cuscuna put the quote in a rather out of the way place - in a Sam Rivers box set, brought out by himself and with, one would suppose, a rather limited audience. The fact that we're now having this rather extended conversation is down to Guy, who picked the quote out and invited us to have this conversation. Now, if you wanted to talk "responsibility", I would give a prime amount to him - and, absolutely I would put it down to stirring the pot. Personally I wish the damn thing had never appeared, in that it gives me the unpleasant choice between attacking a man who obviously demands a great deal of respect and letting slide a quote which I don't like. In my opinion, this conflict is not quite resolvable. Simon Weil Sorry to wade in here but I've been following this thread with keen interest. Even though I'm not a specialist on the kind of music you're discussing, the central themes are universal. When you filter out the polemic (is Cuscuna right or wrong in saying what he said and in how he said it....) , you're left with an interesting discussion on the appreciation of music from various perspectives and on what makes great music last 50 year on (Jsngry's point). Whether a limited audience or not, Cuscuna's comments were made in print in the public domain. So I think it's a little tough on Guy to imply that he's somehow responsable for stiring the pot. Besides, I'm sure that , as would any self respecting critic, Cuscuna would rather be discussed - and criticized - than ignored. What are threads for if not for little lively debate from time to time? If any one can contact Cuscuna I think they should and ask him to set the record straight here on, as JSngry put it, "What he 'meant' & what he 'said'"

That CD does in fact contain all five original tracks from Graffiti Blues plus an unissued track , plus three tracks from the Many Shades of Blue date . Yes , both Collision in Black and Bantu Village would easily fit on one CD , a natural pairing given all the Monk Higgins tunes and arrangements on both albums . Pretty generic funk in my opinion ; I would rather see an individual CD reissue of Heads Up! , which I find a lot more satisfying musically . Very true. Quite disappointing stuff. I tend to steer clear of Monk Higgin's hokey sound. Much prefer head up that came just before. IMO his best mainstream LP was Blue's Blues with just 4 long and solid tracks. I don't think that any of them are featured on the Graffiti blues CD but i might be wrong. Tracks like "Granite and concrete", "I didn't ask to be here" etc

What are "Aquarius" and "More today than yesterday" disguises for ? Don't tell me it's Yellow Submarine and Otopus's garden, please .

"Leaving this planet" is great fun - just before he turned full corner into ARP synth fusion. Every one goes all out the soloing. Joe Henderson and Hubbard provide excellent support. Best version of red clay for my money (if only cos Lenny white messed up the drums on the original). Overlooked LP largely due the fusiony touches and the fact that it's late in the prestige era, but certainly not because of the quality. The a nasty CD reissue wih redone cover art but the sound quality holds up.

I agree. Not that I want to do the guy down. White was only 19 when the session was made. He's probably a great drummer overall. But jesus, what a shame that they didin't ask other house drummers Billy Bobham or my preference Idris Muhammad to take his place if only for the title track. It's arguably the best composition of Hubbard's entire career, with one of the best lineups and also one of the few genuine Jazz standard to come out of the 70s. It an all time classic that missed sistine-chapel style perfection on account of the lame, timid drumming. Poeple have discussed this before on another thread somewhere but I can't find the link. BTW Skydive ain't at all bad. Cobham's back in the house and the track Povo kicks ass where Red Clay could have and should have. I also dig Sebesky's psychedelic strings on his LP CTI LP - Polar AC - with the version of People make the world go round.

great LP! Very much in the "S" vein. Whittaker did a nice track in a similar vibe called "This world is ours" on Teru Masahino's LP, Hip Seagul. Worth chekcing out it you like his opus Black Renaissance. Gilles Petersson called this one of the three LPs he'd jealously take to the grave!

Thanks. I understand now even if I don't "see" it. You must be a musician like the guy who wrote the sleeve notes. A humble listener-only like me goes straight to the melody and never thinks to analyse the music "structurally". It's a whole new way of looking at it, or rather it's like another language. I would NEVER had noticed that the structure of Black Talk resembles the structure of Eleanor Rigby - not in the a million years!

There's no offical take on it. It's simply jazz that is infused with a quasi religious or spiritual theme like Alice Coltrane's music or some Strata East sides. Its heavily indebted to late Coltrane for inspiration both spiritually (sorry to use the 'S' word again) and musically, often including vocal, prayer-like chanting in the back ground à la Love Supreme. The cover art often included ancient egyptian imagery like the Ankh or the Pyramids, reflecting I guess some afro centric ideology that I don't pretend to understand or know anything about: In the 70s there were simply thousands of small private label releases in this genre. Here's a sound file of an obscure band recently included on a Gilles Petereson compliation that typifies the sound: World Experience orchestra, The Prayer

I tend to be quite warey when buying this genre. Too often it feaures aimless improvisations à la ancient egypt, the ankh and mother africa, for a sound a little too up its sphinx-ter for my taste. But here's an LP that won't let you down, River Nile, Pyramids 'n all: If anyone else can recommend some good spiritual stuff that avoids the mystic schlock, please let on... - or feel free to put this crusty cynic back in his place.

bought Along Came John as my first Patton record today just for you (and me). It's really time to come back now, i'd say, being afraid of Nessa is part of the game! It's ironic but this Patton thread, unless I'm mistaken, has become the longest of 'em all! It starts with a pretty open theme and just wanders - a bit like the man himself !!!

Not a very good disguise - "Eleanor Rigby". MG Maybe I'm completely tone deaf but I've heard this comment before about the track Black Talk and I just can't place it. They even admit on the LP's sleeve notes that the song was lifted from "Eleanor Rigby" but I can't for the life of me hear it. I must have a blind spot but I simply don't hear any similarity. Am I the only one or are there others out there? And if I am tone deaf, how come I perfer Earland to Phil Collins..??

I agree. If anyone wants to know why I keep banging on about the genius of Idris Muhammad, compare Love bug to Blue Mode and hear the difference he makes. Hot Rod, the first and best track from Love Bug is all Idris. In the sleeve notes Wilson says that he gave this one to Idris to his own thing with, and what a groove. I don't mind one track albums if the one track is as good as this. (There are other good moments on Love Bug including the title track). Blue Mode is a more consistent LP but for my money, the man IM is sorely missing.

Yes it's Congo Chant on understanding. I can see why some people get that impression from Patton - it's just the flip side of what others like about him. What some see as aimless meandering, others see as an intriguing, low key style that draws you in, bend after bend, .... until you you sit back and then realise that some great picture's just been painted. (oh shit - I sound like Thom Jurek now!)

I guess you weren't here when there were some fireworks on this very subject when Scott Yanow visited the forum a while back. I'm sure the thread's here somewhere. Needless to say, there's varying opinions on this music. Pre-Mosaic Select, the Allmusic critics didn't know this was suppose to be hip, great music. After Mosaic signaled them it was...they changed their tune. Scott Yanow's take on it was pedestrian at best, and blasphemus at worst. I'll dig into the previous threads. (there's more on BJP here than any other artist it seems) I'm listening to B & J (Two Sisters) as I write this and as always it blows me away. Musical criticism, like music itself, can of course be good, bad and mediocre. To just wheel out formulaic, standardized clichés like "commercial" and "dated" (so what?) when the music is trying -successfully or not - to challenge, suggests that what mattered most to Yanow wasn't the music but the sell by date on the tin - "from the declining years of Blue Note" - as if it sufficed to read the label: Division of Liberty - to be consumed before 1968. I'm not saying he has to like it, but he could at least make an effort. But it's his critique, not the music, that sounds more like a product of the factory process line.

Of course, when Mosaic reissued this....all of a sudden the session was amazing (as usual for allmusic guide's review of Mosaic sets) On the final session here, Understanding, the sound cut even closer to the bone: Harold Alexander was enlisted on tenor and flute, with drummer Hugh Walker the only other musician involved. The trio played all around the groove jazz sound, while turning it inside out in Alexander's out-ish honking solos. Patton's organ is way up in the mix, shape-shifting time signatures inside a 2/4 meter. The pace is aggressive, deep, and at times dissonant, making an excellent case for reappraisal here, as it dates better than anything else on this set. All in all, this is a deep, sometimes mystifying collection featuring Patton as a composer, bandleader, and arranger. His sense of rhythmic dynamics is among the most sophisticated in the history of the jazz B-3. There isn't a weak second on any of this material and it should be snapped up before Mosaic's copies go — they do not reissue. Blue Note should take the cue, do the entire catalog in 24-bit audio, and hustle it out there. AMG adds contradiciton to contradiction in praising Boogaloo for the exact same reason that they dissed Understanding - namely Harold ALexander: "Review by Scott Yanow "The main reason to purchase this previously unissued set from the declining years of Blue Note is not for the trivial rhythmic themes (which use fairly basic chord sequences) or even the solos of organist John Patton (who never does escape entirely from the shadow of Jimmy Smith) but for the somewhat out-of-place avant-garde outbursts by Harold Alexander (on tenor and flute) who often takes improvisations that go completely outside; his squeals on "Boogaloo Boogie" are a real surprise and he may very well be the reason that this music was not put out at the time. Otherwise this is a routine and now-dated set of commercial late-'60s jazz/funk. " I'm trying hard not to be a musical fascist and I think its measured of me to say that statements like "trivial rhythmic themes" or "routine and now dated commerical late 60s jazz/funk" merit a few years of quiet reflection in the gulag.

I think that you're right. It goes back to what Dan Gould was saying at the beginning of this thread. Lou's was a kind of musician's elitism that crossed styles. It was neither about money, nor a thing against R&B or Fusion per se - just a thing against musicians who, rightly or wrongly in his eyes, hadn't paid thier dues. Nothing else, short of base hypocrisy, can explain why he qualified himself to decry new and ostensibly commercial styles of music whilst making a lot of, well, commercial music himself.

Of course, when Mosaic reissued this....all of a sudden the session was amazing (as usual for allmusic guide's review of Mosaic sets) On the final session here, Understanding, the sound cut even closer to the bone: Harold Alexander was enlisted on tenor and flute, with drummer Hugh Walker the only other musician involved. The trio played all around the groove jazz sound, while turning it inside out in Alexander's out-ish honking solos. Patton's organ is way up in the mix, shape-shifting time signatures inside a 2/4 meter. The pace is aggressive, deep, and at times dissonant, making an excellent case for reappraisal here, as it dates better than anything else on this set. All in all, this is a deep, sometimes mystifying collection featuring Patton as a composer, bandleader, and arranger. His sense of rhythmic dynamics is among the most sophisticated in the history of the jazz B-3. There isn't a weak second on any of this material and it should be snapped up before Mosaic's copies go — they do not reissue. Blue Note should take the cue, do the entire catalog in 24-bit audio, and hustle it out there. Well spotted. My only gripe with Understanding is the sound. I would have preferred Walker's drums higher in the mix. Also and he and Alexander sound somewhat muffled - there are none of the crisp, clear edges that you get on other blue note sides. ......grump, moan....I guess I was spoilt as a child.

I totally agree, and in perfect inverse proportion to the AllMusic Guide review: "Review by Michael Erlewine Patton with saxman Harold Alexander and drums. Alexander is playing sax that is just a tad too "out" for an organ combo than is standard for soul jazz, thus turning the sound toward something other than a real groove. If you like progressive sax, you might be able to stay in the groove. Not me, the sound keeps popping me out. I like to get in the groove and ride. " Nothing against Michael Erlewine but it seems illogical to ask a fan of organ funk only to review BJP.

I could never tell anyone my most frequent thought of the day - but it has more to do with Randy than Booker!

Yup, bought one last week and I'm like a pig in shit (having a ball) recording my LP's onto the PC. It's very easy to use and set up and the sound's great. (I'm not a $5000 turntable kind of guy so it's all relative). But if you want to hear your LPs in the car or at work etc this is great. I've been waiting years to get my old vinyl onto CD. It takes just a a second to plug into the PC and is very light so I just keep it in storage and whenever I want to record, I bring it out and I'm away in a second. It's almost as easy as switching the radio on. Comes with stylus and the software too. Strongly recommended. Best toy I've had since ....