freeform83

Do the John Patton Blue Notes after Understanding and Boogaloo qualify as avant-grease to the same extent? Many posts reference Harold Alexander, but there is much less discussion of Accent on the Blues (69) and Memphis to New York Spirit (69) -- not to mention a dearth of useful reviews elsewhere online.

ep1str0phy -- great reviews! (Are you a professional music writer?) I didn't catch the Mu sample, although that album was another recent purchase for me (love the trumpet and flute cuts, less enthusiastic about the piano, especially with the distortion). There is also a brief flute interlude on one of the Weldon tracks, which I assume is sampled, but wonder from where. The next Madlib release of interest would probably be The Funky Side of Life (Stones Throw, 05) by Sound Directions -- another disguised YNQ moniker -- although the "directions" lead into more jazz/funk/soul territory. I will give this another listen soon and post my thoughts. I have actually toyed with the idea of creating a blog exclusively for jazz/electronica/hip-hop hybrids. And ep1str0phy, definitely spring for The Exchange Sessions, if you haven't already.

Has anyone heard the Brute Force album (Embryo, 70) with Sonny Sharrock, produced by Herbie Mann? I am looking for opinions on whether or not this would qualify or is recommended. Same goes for Last Exit.

Speaking of Bernie Worrell, has anyone heard Bill Laswell's group Praxis? I may be veering off course here, but I have their first CD, Transmutation (Mutatis Mutandis), and it features all kinds of funk elements plus a long freeform organ freakout on the last (and best) track. I do find it gimmicky at times. The P Funk + metal + avant-garde formula can feel contrived. I don't know whether or not this was resolved on subsequent albums, nor have I heard much Worrell to use as a reference point.

Right now on eBay are three Larry Young LPs (Groove Street, Into Something, and Heaven on Earth) that, according to the description, come from a large collection of records previously owned by the rap group Digable Planets. If this is the case, I wonder if they aquired the albums for sampling or listening... The Young that I am really waiting for is Contrasts -- Number One on my BN wish list.

This is such a great thread... With the recently released RVG of Kirk's Work (Prestige, 61), we might consider adding that album as a kind of predecessor to avant-grease. Admittedly, it falls in the early 60s commercial soul-jazz bag. But I don't think you can have Roland Kirk switching instruments mid-song, or playing multiple horns at once, without some idiosyncratic variation on the tradition. His humming/vocalizations during his flute solo on "Funk Underneath" are discussed in the liner notes in terms of "what appears to be a Kirk duet." In fact, this particular sound reminded me of the Big John Patton tracks from Understanding and Boogaloo where Harold Alexander plays flute. It may not be Larry Young circa 1967, but this is one of the most purely entertaining organ dates I have heard so far.

I would sell my soul for the chance to hear this "Man on Mercury" track. However, there is some free-ish playing by Land on Now! and Head On, as well as "Pompeian" from Total Eclipse. It was something he explored in the late 60s/early 70s, so I'm not entirely surprised it found its way into some of the live performances. There is also a live version of "The Creators" from 1970 that I really, really want to hear.

Another recommendation I would like to add is Unpath'd Waters (Alpha Pup, 2005) by Paris Zax. The album basically plots a down-tempo/"chill-out" course, even verging on a trip-hoppy DJ Shadow-like sound, but incorporates some jazz and avant-garde elements. Real instrumentation appears in the form of some mild bass clarinet, tenor sax, and flute playing, and Snooky Young puts in an appearance on trumpet. The last track, "One Two-One Seven," samples Eric Dolphy's (beautiful) 1963 duet with Richard Davis on "Come Sunday" (!) and ends with his famous quote about music disappearing into the air after it's played (although I am not sure as to whether the voice belongs to Dolphy). But my favorite track is "Mellow Mission," which pairs a slowed-down rap with vocal and choir samples for a sound akin to a cerebral Swisha House. The album in general avoids a lot of instrumental hip-hop/electronica cliches and employs interesting samples throughout. It's nothing earth-shattering but it's growing on me rapidly. Incidently, Unpath'd Waters (as well as Ricci Rucker's Fuga) came out on Daddy Kev's label. I find Daddy Kev himself to be more interesting than Madlib as a jazz-obsessed hip-hop producer, in part because he often comes across as a more abstract (but also more aesthetically focused) version of Madlib. There seems to be little to no interest in the expected old-school soul and funk samples. Instead, he leans very heavily toward free jazz and even some classical, with a way of pushing beyond conventionally beat-driven tracks. The downside is that all of the albums under his name are collaborations with AWOL One, a rather annoying rapper with whom I usually lose patience after about 10 seconds. If you take the album, Slanguage (Mush, 2003), for example, there is a track called "Idiot Savant Autistic Delivery," where AWOL One is largely absent (apart from an opening interaction with a sampled spoken-word discussion of free jazz, which is actually amusing). The track goes on to combine early 70s spacey free-influenced fusion with scratched opera samples to create an amazing, otherwordly atmosphere. But then there are other tracks with just as much promise that are ruined by the seemingly inept rapping. The bottom line here is that an instrumental Daddy Kev album is long overdue. I remember hearing a track called "Suing Sony" on a live365 station, then buying the CD Temporary Forever (Temporary Whatever, 2002) by Busdriver, and being greatly disappointed by the fact that the album version had vocals on it. Although Busdriver is a far more interesting (and competent) rapper than AWOL One, he is still much better in small doses. But to bring this full circle, Temporary Forever also features some interesting and funny production from Paris Zax.

No one has mentioned Woody on Chick Corea's IS Sessions (69). Do any of you find him less convincing in a more explicitly "free" context like on the second disc of the Sessions? "The Awakening" on SONG OF SONGS (72) is the closest I've heard Woody get to this collective improv sound on an album under his own name. I love this track; it's dramatic yet spacey, and meandering in a good way (if that makes sense). Love when the rock beat kicks in toward the end, almost as if too late, and disappears just as quickly into the wash of free sounds. Bennie Maupin is another plus. I am surprised it hasn't been discovered by DJs as a source of samples.

Also picked up CHANGE, but my impressions are more positive. I see it as a more stripped-down extension of the sounds he was beginning to explore with COMPULSION. For the most part, it gets the abrasive/calm balance just right for my tastes (having Sam Rivers sit out a couple of tracks may have added to this). However, ever since listening to CHANGE, I have found myself wishing that more bass solos had harpsicord backing.

My favorite Thirsty Ear CD in the Matthew Shipp series is easily EQUILIBRIUM with Khan Jamal on vibes. It ALMOST feels like a worthy successor to the classic 60s vibes/piano quartet records on Blue Note, a kind of 21st century/futuristic update -- but not quite. The grooves/beats sound overly simplistic and not very well produced, making some of the more overtly "techno" tracks annoying and, frankly, skippable. The more "ambient" side comes across much better (which seems common for Shipp). "Nebula Theory" and "Nu Matrix" are quite good. I even heard the former on Hearts of Space a few years ago. Also worth hearing from the Thirsty Ear stable is DJ Spooky's OPTOMETRY; as always, his work is a cut above the average "DJ" record, and he covers some of those same pseudo-ambient (for lack of a better term) ground with the help of Shipp. "Periphique" is the one I come back to the most, with its drifting looseness and restraint. However, this album is also far from an unqualified success. I'm not even sure I can explain why I find it lacking, but I think it comes down to an overall lack of focus and cohesion, a sense of being all of over the place, much like this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=vtBN8xdqnF0 As far as Madlib is concerned, I second the YNQ rec, but think that A TRIBUTE TO BROTHER WELDON, under the name "Monk Hughes and the Outer Realm," may be of more interest for the purposes of this thread. Despite the officially stated purpose of paying tribute to Weldon Irvine, the CD actually finds Madlib moving into free-er forms with a very early 70s Strata East feel: a seemingly infinite amount of percussion, Rhodes, and the all-important drug-induced haze. Think also in terms of the rhythm tracks on various early 70s records -- Pharaoh Sanders, Weather Report, even some early ECM stuff -- but without any horns or blowing of any kind. There are a couple of organ washes I wish were more prominant on the album. Now, I didn't recommend this initially because, well, let's just say Madlib has a lot of room to grow as a musician. I have not even listened to the Weldon CD in over a year, and probably should have before posting this. But I do recall that it relies less on samples than ANGELS WITHOUT EDGES, for a more original and organic feel. Suffice it to say, it's a surprisingly uncommercial album -- especially for one that I found in the Rap section at Border's! So you might consider picking it up. And as long as I am posting videos, I know this is not exactly "jazz"-influenced, but it is nevertheless an example of Kid Koala at his best: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ScwI7c5iiRo I listened to it several times a day for a while.

BruceH: I don't have THE KICKER yet and I must admit that I often forget it. I tend to think of DIALOGUE as Hutcherson's debut as a leader. Eric: Thanks for the link! I was unaware of that site and even found some things I didn't know about. I REALLY want to hear the 1970 Festival tracks mentioned in the discography, with Hutcherson credited for vibes, marimba, and percussion (I'm guessing maybe bells like he used on "Pompeiian" and "Prints Tie"?). if anyone has heard these compilation-only tracks, please comment. Next on my list is any late 60s/early 70s Harold Land I can find. (I have always found it strange that Hutcherson and Land appeared in the movie THEY SHOOT HORSES, DON'T THEY? in that they don't seem like obvious candidates for early 30s dance orchestra.) I cannot believe I left out what is probably the greatest (or at least my favorite) of Hutcherson's sideman appearances: Prince Lasha and Sonny Simmons' FIREBIRDS (67). As good as his solos are, his accompaniment may be even better -- an intriguing return to the EVOLUTION/OUT TO LUNCH piano-less approach.

Cool, what's your favorite track or part of OBLIQUE? I think HAPPENINGS and OBLIQUE are about equal. Makes me wish I were a producer who could reunite Hancock and Hutcherson and Chambers for one last quartet album that features both straightahead and avant-garde playing. I don't have THE PEACEMAKER , but I really want it. One other record I could throw in is Stanley Cowell's BRILLIANT CIRCLES, featuring both Hutch and Chambers pushing the post-bop boundaries in 1969 fashion. I consider this a classic and like it more than PATTERNS. (I assume MEDINA/SPIRAL is closer in tone to PATTERNS than BRILLIANT CIRCLES.) Other favorite sideman appearances: Grachan Moncur III's EVOLUTION (63) -- especially love his solo on the title track, where he hits the same note repeatedly and then goes out from there, while Tony Williams stops playing for a while Tony Williams' LIFE TIME (64) -- "Memory" anticipates aspects of "The Omen" but with greater restraint the Archie Shepp side of NEW THING AT NEWPORT (65) -- listen to how he changes his musical personality depending on the song THE NEW WAVE IN JAZZ (65) -- worth it to hear Grachan and Bobby on the 24-minute "The Intellect," which I love, although the drums can feel a little intrusive LET 'EM ROLL (65) by Big John Patton -- my favorite of his more straightforward, swinging-but-still-intelligent side, and it's great to hear him with organ What 70s album would you recommend most by Hutcherson? One reason I thought CIRRUS would be best is because it has both Woody Shaw and Harold Land (and a cover that looks a lot like HEAD ON).

Here are my Bobby Hutcherson ratings: First Tier : Dialogue (65) -- The title track is one of my favorite pieces of recorded music, and Richard Davis' bass solos -- the quasi-Eastern-sounding thing with beautifully eerie backing from Hill -- among of my favorite single recorded moments. Words can't express... Components (65) -- I won't say I like this one better, but I will say it benefits greatly from its schizophrenic personality. Title track features what seems like Spaulding's archetpyical solo, and I love his avant-garde classical-inspired flute on "Movement." However, Hancock's organ interjections on "Air" might be even better! Happenings (66) -- "Bouquet" and "The Omen" are my favorites, but the whole album plays like an ideal piano/vibes quartet, encompassing every mood I could ask for with amazing musicianship all around. Plus a truly fantastic cover. Oblique (67) -- used to think of the above three as the Holy Trinity of 60s Hutcherson, but over the past year I have come to realize that this is so much more than an inferior sequel to Happenings, even if it touches a few of the same bases (advanced post-bop to serene ballads to Latin to modal Hancock cover to avant-garde). And Stinson is fascinating. Head On (71) -- I love this album! I am on the verge of starting a separate thread about it: The whole thing is utterly unlike anything else Bobby ever did, and I always found it ironic that after his initial inroads into more commercial material, he would make a one-shot return to record what is probably the most avant-garde album of his career. For starters, "Many Thousands Gone" includes the best marimba solo I have ever heard. Second Tier: Stick-Up (66) -- This is still very good, but some of the playing strikes me as unengaging compared to his other albums. I don't care as much for Hutch with McCoy Tyner, although I realize I am in the minority there. My favorite part is Henderson on "Verse." Patterns (68) -- Again, a great album, just not up there with what I consider his 5-star masterpieces. Love Spaulding's flute. I just wish the album as a whole pushed a little harder in terms of sheer sound; some tracks are too pleasant. Total Eclipse (68) -- "Pompeian" is another one of my all-time favorite tracks, perhaps my favorite thing he ever did, and also deserves a thread of its own. Perhaps the only reason I can't rate this higher is because none of the other tracks match its inventiveness. But both Hutch and Land are in top form throughout. Agree that it needs RVG treatment. Now! (69) -- Need to listen to this again. I remember being fascinated by some of the more experimental directions as well as the cultural context (remembering Paul Laurence Dunbar in the Civil Rights era), but was never quite sold on the concept. Live at Montreux (73) -- another one I need to hear again, but I do know that I really like Woody Shaw and Hutcherson together and both turn in some great solos. Third Tier: San Francisco (70) -- Too much of this brings to mind words like "cheesy" as the rock/soul/fusion hooks are weak and repetitive. I will say that "Procession" could sit comfortably on some of the previous records (if it's the track I'm thinking of), and there are other moments of interest. I need: The Medina/Spiral CD (69) Natural Illusions (72) -- can't be entirely without interest given its year and the line-up Cirrus (74) -- looks quite promising!

So I have frequented the organissimo board for something like four years now without ever posting (figured I would leave it up to the experts). However, there are a couple of albums I feel that I absolutely MUST introduce to this thread as my first-ever post. Fuga by Ricci Rucker (Alpha Pup, 2005) stands as one of my all-time favorite albums, of any genre. I have read it described as a "free-jazz Endtroducing...," and while that description may not be entirely accurate, it as about as good as any I can come up with. More importantly, the music itself is as amazing as that comparison would lead you to believe. Rucker started out in typical DJ fashion by collecting samples of various records to create the skeleton of the album. He gave this to a group of jazz musicians, who used it as a point of departure for their own improvisations. Then he pressed the results to vinyl for his own scratching, sequencing, ect. It all sounds like musical masturbation, but it's more like forward-thinking instrumental hip-hop/electronica resting on a bed of real instrumentation and surprisingly sincere playing. Much of it recalls the cosmic-sounding Third World-influenced records of Don Cherry and Pharoah Sanders. "4004" is like a futuristic hip-hop take on early 70s Circle records like the Quartet Pieces. There are other sounds as well -- "Do You See the Pattern?" combines church-y organ with Islamic chanting -- but jazz and free-jazz predominate. I cannot over-emphasize the lack of beats (or at least conventional "beats" as most people know them). In fact, the record at one point turns into a kind of Jaco/Squarepusher fretless bass-like section that noodles atmospherically for several minutes with no beat (or other overt manipulations) to be found. But through it all, you never lose sight of the fact that you are listening to a 2005 "electronica" record: 21st century technology minus the negative connotations of an ADD-addled generation. Another record I loved last year was Kieran Hebden (from Four Tet) and Steve Reid -- The Exchange Sessions (Domino, 2006). Don't be deterred by the lukewarm-to-negative reviews: Reid provides something of a clinic in hypnotic African-influenced drumming, while Hebden incorporates all manner of free-jazz squeals and skronks into his glitchy electronic universe. Imagine Four Tet in a more challenging, open-ended context, one where our normal concept of time seems to stretch out, and you'll have some idea of the sound on these two CDs. "Noémie," on the second (and superior) CD, is one of my all-time favorite tracks. Sounding not unlike early 70s Alice Coltrane in its edgier take on sounds more generally associated with New Age, it builds deliberately from a Zen-like Asiatic influence into a frenetic noise exploration, all revolving around a flute sample that sounds by turns delicate and menacing (and sometimes like more than one flute freely improvizing at once). It is, in my opinion, a must-hear for anyone who appreciates this type of sound. And Guy, based on seeing some of your posts, I think you will appreciate these (particularly Ricci Rucker) if you haven't already found them.