david weiss

Sounds like a manufacturing issue or an issue with the actual CD master (which is usually a DDP file) but most likely a pressing defect. I guess we see if more people weigh in.....

Can you please elaborate or provide a link to the discussion of this on the SH board please? Thanks

Dead on in this case.... I was tasked with listening to a series of these a while back (from one source). The sound quality is not great, I believe this was a couple of mics in the room situation and not an each individual instrument being miced thing. I believe they recorded one night for a radio broadcast. The usual stuff was great of course but as always, there are clearance issues or the labels in question were not enticed. There is more Lee Morgan (not much) then what has been on the various bootlegs but after the huge Lighthouse set, I don't think Blue Note was interested in releasing what is essentially the same material again. It would probably be Atlantic Records for the Hubbard and Concord for the Henderson and who even knows where to begin.... There were other recordings as well but I'm not sure I should get into that except to say there was nothing else exceptional or mind-blowing....

This tape is from the Both/And club in San Francisco and like the Lee Morgan Both/And tapes, it was recorded the week before the band went into The Lighthouse and made a live record. And for the same reason, why you have tracks they didn't record at The Lighthouse because they were recording new material which is why you get these killing versions of "Power to the People" and "Punjab". And yes, there is more, an absolutely killing up tempo swing version of "Afro-Centric" for one. The Freddie Hubbard bootleg LPs "Hot Horn" and "Extended" are also recorded at the Both/And. Seems like bullshit to me. As I mentioned, this recording is from the Both/And in San Francisco and was probably never in Orrin's possession or better yet, nothing Orrin ever had the rights to. If this was more music from The Lighthouse, Concord Records would have every right to be all over this and back in the day, Fantasy would have been all over Everest. The real question is whether Real Gone just did a straight up rip-off of ripped off material.

Hi Kevin, I have an extra copy of this. DM me.

I'm not saying they played the same tunes on the 2nd set just that there were probably 2 sets played and perhaps only one of them circulated (or the music was recorded on 2 reels of tape and only one circulated). I imagine when this music and the Freddie Hubbard albums are released, there will be a story in the booklet about the guy who organized these gigs and recorded the music. This is a case where we know the origins of these recordings as they have been with the guy who recorded them from day one and he has been in possession of them the whole time. These tapes were not widely circulated but I know the musicians had copies at least. I first heard the Freddie Hubbard tape at Freddie Hubbard's house years ago. I also know a few of them were shopped years ago so it's possible someone made copies. I also got a cassette of part of the Kenny Dorham gig years ago as I remember transcribing KD's solos on Blue Bossa and Bag's Groove. As for this KD recording. I can't quite figure out the original order but there seems to be two sets as there are two different announcements at the beginning of sets and another announcement bringing Joe Lee Wilson to the stage. All the instrumental tracks seem to be on this release as with the Freddie Hubbard. Perhaps the liner notes will clear some things up. I'm still curious how they decided it was Dennis Charles on drums when the announcer clearly says Huss Charles.

The Joe Lee Wilson tracks match up as well but yes, there is more music than what was originally floating around. Perhaps a 2nd set?

It's the same tape.

I think it was a case of more music and musicians than the time allotted. I believe there were a few musicians who didn't make it onto the 1st set because they ran out of time so they were featured on the 2nd set and again time ran out before everyone got on stage. Cables and McBee were both backstage waiting to go on when the clock ran out as it were.....

The date with Sonny Red is what is being released on Resonance. I find it to be excellent Kenny Dorham and revelatory Sonny Red, I'm not involved in any way with this release so I don't know where the Denis Charles credit comes from. I do have the tape and the announcer says very clearly on the recording Huss Charles on Drums.

From what I'm told, they will begin to release individual albums on vinyl starting on Record Store Day. The goal is to release the entire catalog (or whatever is still owned by Strata East) digitally at some point. I'm sure we will find out more in the coming months.

That Tolliver show was in 2007. I was on that gig! I don't remember everyone who was there but Kiane Ziwadi was probably not there and Alvin Queen definitely wasn't. I don't think Alvin ever played with this version of the big band. Gene Jackson probably played drums.

I've had a listen to the set again, my 3 CD bootleg set at least. Again, I don't know what the Resonance set sounds like or what they might have done with the sound. As far as I can hear from this set, there seems to be two radio/TV shows (one of each I think) that do have what sounds like reverb added in the studio, The Stockholm (radio show I believe) has a little reverb added but it's not so bad to me. The levels are certainly acceptable. The other Stockholm show seems to be the TV show? That one also has added reverb and while a little more prevalent, it's still within what I think are acceptable levels of reverb. This is a matter of taste certainly but to me, it's not so bad. The one concert that seems to suffer from excessive concert hall reverb is the Zurich show but this just sounds like it is all the concert hall with nothing added. All the other shows, reverb wise at least, all seem to be OK to me. I really don't hear that any of the live recordings having any post production reverb added unless it was added on this new set. The most egregious example to me is still the radio show from the Sonny Rollins in Holland set. That is really excessive to me and it was done in the studio. I've actually heard another show from that archive that we were considering for release but again, the reverb was overwhelming the music. Listening to all this again, it sounds like there is a lot to work with on some of these shows to improve the sound or make it more consistent from show to show. Some of this will depend on how much of the original source material they were able to acquire and how much they probably just transferred from the already available CDs. I wonder how much more information about the recordings is in the booklet. Still, it's great music and I'm happy it's out here in a more legitimate medium. I guess it depends what you think of Orrin Keepnews.

Yup. That would have been ideal. Of course I loved the album when I first got it but what really opened my ears to how incredible this all was was when I bought the Japanese Volume 2 and Volume 3 albums on sale at Tower Records when I was in college. The first side of Volume 3 with All the Things You Are, Woodyn' You and Four was life changing for me and put these recordings in a whole new light. The RVG in the end, now that I have absorbed everything individually for years, is more fun for me now since it is in order and has all the announcements.

I remember this as well. I don't remember which one and while there was a time when the 3 CDs were on repeat for quite some time, it's been a while..... As much as I'd like to pile on, I'm not sure I can agree with this. If the Dragon release was legitimate, then he shouldn't be able to do this. It also could be someone at the label trying to do this. Part of the problem with trying to take credit for everything is you get credit for everything, the good with the bad. And has alienated everyone who has nipped the mistakes in the bud previously..... I doubt I'll ever hear the Resonance version of this, I'm happy with the bootleg 3 CD I've had for a while, so I guess I'll never know if you are right or not. Again, I have a lot of faith in Bernie Grundman and doubt has would do this or do it poorly. Sometimes, he does have to follow the orders of the "producer" but I still think he would voice objections and it wouldn't happen in the end. Sometimes Resonance does things in house (the digital mixing and mastering at least) and they have been known to take a liberty or two....