Big Beat Steve

Just for the record to those who might rush out to pick up this individual CD from that "Jazz Connoisseur" series: This very CD (i.e. its exact contents inside the same facsimile cover of Vogue LD 025) also is included in the "Jazz on Disques Vogue - The Perfect Collection" 20-CD box set. (For once Vogue really made good use of the space on this CD - there are several CDs by other artists in that set where playing time is a bit skimpy) These 3 LPs are a very good way to cover the basics of Bechet's French period. There is so much from that era out there (in so many different repackagings and combinations that invariably overlap) that I for one wouldn't want to attempt covering it all. Re-reading this thread (and the other you resurrected now ) I see I've got most of the Bechet bases covered, though I'm no Bechet completist. Those 25-some LPs on my shelves cover a wide spectrum: early Bechet, Victor/RCA, Panassié Sessions, New Orleans Feetwarmers, King Jazz with Mezzrow, Blue Note, and then France including the Salle Pleyel and Olympia concerts and Brussels 1958, etc. And last year I picked up the Riverside "In Memoriam" LP of 1960 that reissued all 8 tracks from the 1940 Bechet -Spanier Big Four session. This is another milestone in his discography (so far I somehow only had part of it on an EP). And yes, I still marvel at that "Sidney Bechet in Switzerland" 4-CD box and book I scored about one year ago. Anyone who finds this at a halfway affordable price can do no wrong in picking it up.

Re-my above post: Simce you are wondering about the transfers and just in case you would have asked: I listened to the first few tracks of my Coral LP. Though my copy is definitely not NM the sound is bright and clear and fine. At least to me, and on my non-high end equipment, and it does not sound "remastered to death" either. Just for comparison I played a few tracks from Vol. 2 (1928-30) of the CBS "Complete Duke Ellington" twofers. These tracks do have more background noise (varying between hiss and pops and crackles, apparently in accordance with the source material) and generally sound more "vintage" or "20s-ish" ("muffled" would be too harsh a word, though). Perfectly listenable but I wouldn't use the word "bright" there.

(excerpt from a Columbia "trade foldout" for Cugat's records, 1943, illustrated by Jim Flora)

What I know about Ellington's discography isn't nearly enough to give a full answer (and squeezed among the Victor and Columbia/Okeh recordings as they are, those early Brunswicks are hard to keep on overview of anyway), but there were a couple more reissues in the early 60s: I have this one (definitely mono too) on German Coral 97012 LPCM, released in 1959: https://www.discogs.com/release/4439629-Duke-Ellington-And-His-Orchestra-Dukes-Best It was repressed into the mid-60s (identical covers and labels, except that no printing date is given in the small print on the back cover of later reprintings). And there was another volume (97015 LPCM, released in 1961) which I do not know (but will watch out for in the second hand special offer bins now ) : https://www.discogs.com/release/3986364-Duke-Ellington-And-His-Orchestra-Duke-Ellington-And-His-Orchestra I've never heard or seen the UK Ace of Hearts reissues. I suppose the four volumes on French MCA in its "Jazz Heritage" series (catalog nos. starting with 510.xxx) use the stereo reprocessed mastering of the 60s U.S. Decca reissues? I only have two of the four French MCA Jazz Heritages and the stereo effect doesn't bother me unduly but I do see the point of those who object.

Didn't "Cugie" make his music as palatable as possible to the U.S. mainstream audiences in the first place?

This made me curious, of course. In case you're familiar with the respective LPs, am I right in assuming that this version is very similar to the recording of "Begin The Beguine" (which might be described as a "Tone painting and exercise in dynamics on Begin The Beguine" ) recorded around the same time in 1948 that is on Golden Era GE 15014 and Hep LP 3?

Plus XANADU for its reissues of jazz from the 40s and 50s that complement Onyx very well and expand their scope (in addition to much more recent recordings) - as well as HighNote for the CD spinoffs of several Onyx vinyls. But since neither Onyx nor Xanadu are active anymore (or so it seems even in the case of Xanadu) I hesitated mentioning them.

According to some who ought to know, Abbey Lincoln wouldn't quite agree with your impressions, it seems. 😕 It's been discussed here, too - some 20 years ago.

Which I understand made him pass for a moldy fig in the opinions of certain "progressivists"!

Re- the observations of Mikeweil, Niko and Ghost: From what I have observed, all this is hit and miss and you have to be lucky to find the right buyers at those record fairs. But it does happen. Somehow with all the purchasing I have done during the past 2-3 years my "stock" of jazz records for sale increases despite all I've sold. Sometimes it is a matter of me upgrading (such as an LP that can go because I bought its contents and MORE on a 2-LP album), sometimes because in the end I do already own this or that record I just brought home. Usually the latter is either a case of a pressing with a totally different cover but exactly identical contents, or a matter of me saying "what the heck" because the records were very cheap and I figured it just was not worth the effort to go back home first to check and then return downtown again. Overall what I have is way too little for a record fair (which are nothing to enthuse about in my area anymore anyway) so I display them at my fleamarket stalls. I also find that pre-1950 vinyl moves rather slowly, and from what I see in the Special Offer bins of the few remaining local record shops this is a general trend. But even modern jazz from the 50s and early 60s is not as hot as I had figured (neither on CD). Though my prices are very affordable, I'd say. Or maybe my offers are too "obscure" for the general jazz layman listener - e.g. a Brew Moore LP from his Danish period has been sitting in my crates for quite some time by now. Same for some Uptown CDs. (BTW - Uptown would be another favorite "boutique label" !!) So, to forestall idle inquiries, last year I decided to mark the divider panel in the crates (that shows what is inside): JAZZ - SWING - BOP - COOL No Free, no Jazz Rock, no Fusion! This has gotten me a few smiles and laughs ... As for pre-Swing Era jazz, this has always been only a small part of what I try to sell, but amazingly last year, over the course of 3-4 fleamarkets, I sold off almost all of it! Most of them to buyers who looked like "40" was quite a few years away. It is an amazing experience if a couple picks your Bennie Moten LPs from one crate and you then have to advise them that that other Bennie Moten LP that you have in your "Swing" crate (for better exposure of the artist) and that they pulled out too offers no new contents over what they just picked from that Oldtime Jazz section! As for "boutique labels", quite a few of my records are on such collector labels, but most buyers at such events do not seem savvy enough to appreciate them. Though amazingly one Paul Howard Quality Serenaders LP on the The Old Masters label I really had bought from the Special Offers section by mistake (because I did not remember all of its contents are on that RCA LP I have by this band) was snapped up at the first fleamarket I took this record to afterwards. So, overall it all looks indeed like a niche market within the niche market of jazz - even modern jazz from the 1945-65 era that goes somewhat beyond the "usual suspects" of the big names. To me it seems like it is not the lack of interest as such among a generation of (relative) youngsters but the lack of interested younger listeners who are prepared to explore a style of jazz DEEPLY and go significantly beyond the usual suspects. And of course this hurts collector or boutique labels, in particular. (But maybe that deeper interest will mature as they get older - but if the collector labels wil then still be around except in the secondhand sections is anybody's guess. )

Just to round off things: Here is a review from a 1955 Down Beat: (Not initialed so it's by Nat Hentoff)

Finian's Rainbow was a painful memory for Kenton in later years and was panned rather mercilessly by Michael Sparke in the "This Is an Orchestra" biography for its uninspired scoring and lackluster playing by what could have been "any anonymous studio orchestra". So YMMV, it seems, isn't it?

Yes, Harlequin was nice - I'm saying "was" because it's been a long time since the Interstate conglomerate (Krazy Kat, Harlequin, Country Routes a.o.) put out any new reissues.

That's a fine and appropriate distinction you are making. Anyone who is into Bix at least to some degree (or certain other white jazzmen of the 20s who were featured as soloists) will invariably wind up with a fair share of recordings by the Paul Whiteman orchestra on vinyl or CD reissues. So this is likely how this band is experienced today - as the background to the soloists. And as long as diehard reissuers (on certain of those "boutique labels" ) drool about almost any run-of-the-mill 20s dance bands just for the presence of 12 or 16 bars of "hot choruses" by this or that jazzman and push them onto the reissue market (which seems to have happened for decades) the Whiteman orchestra, by comparison, had the merits of always having had its act together musicality-wise and often with cleaner (for the time) recording and reproduction technology (for listenability to the average ears of today - not everyone will be able or willing to "listen through" the shattering sounds of jazz or jazzish recordings from the "acoustic" era for greater lengths of time. ) As for the Whiteman band on its own terms, for me the twofer on French RCA ("The Famous Paul Whiteman - Jazz à la King 1920-1936", Black & White series) does go a long way.

... and Archeophone, in that segment of the market. Not only for what must be about the most fitting label name if you reissue really old music.

Yes, those sections with the mostly orange-colored horizontal bars (such as at 2:00 and 3:00) are like those I remember seeing in that other online source.

That is very likely the case. I remember seeing facsimile excerpts of Graettinger's scores somewhere in an online discussion (may have been here in this forum), and they did look like this (on music paper, though), though not quite as colorful IIRC. Reminded me vaguely of certain medieval music notations that I saw on the walls in the home of some of my parents' friends.

Understandable and I agree ... I found an original 10" copy of "This Modern World" some 40 years ago (i.e. in my rather younger days ) at a fleamarket, and a couple years ago I scored (at a giveaway price) an original of the somewhat later 12" release that combines "City of Glass" and "This Modern World". But its cover continues the "This Modern World" theme. The thumbnails on the "Nine Classic Albums V.2" CD set on Real Gone Jazz also uses a more recent cover on its photo. So unless I come across a dirt cheap copy of the 10" City of Glass with the original cover the above will (have to) do. Anything else would be overkill.

Actually I meant "up to and including the Mellophonium band". I haven't nearly listened to all the Kenton recordings from that period, but the "Uncollected Vol. 6" on Hindsight, for example, is quite palatable to my ears.

So am I (at least for the period up to the Mellophonium orchestra) - but no real completist. I didn't know about this particular CD but have several other compilations that cover this period. So I am not quite sure how to judge this one in particular - in preference to others. But like I said, anyone who would like to explore this period should be served well with this compilation. In general I'd recommend having a look at the live recordings (from the Hollywood Palladium and Birdland) of that period too.

If it is smaller collector labels (that cater to niche segments within the niche market of jazz ) that are meant here, then I'd mention Sonorama and Be!Jazz as well.

What made you pick out this one, of all Kenton albums? Opinions? According to Discogs and the description on YT this is a sort of "Best Of" of the 1950-52 band. There are quite a few compilations of that time period around, so if you fancy that period of his bands this one should be as fine as any.

I understand your needs and agree that "Both Sides Now" doesn't meet these needs. And yes, there are many cobbled-up pseudo-discographies on the 'web these days. Yet I find your statement inappropriate for sites such as Both Sides Now. This site, in particular, does fill a need and a gap, despite the gaps it still has and those label listings that seem to remain unfinished. I am glad this site still is up. OTOH just look at certain among the typical discographies in the stricter sense of the word (both online and in print). How many of them give truly comprehensive listings of the EPs (or other 45s) that were released alongside the LPs, and how many give at least the ALBUM TITLES (and ALL of them) that were compiled from the sessions so the discographically interested collector isn't forced in each and every case to jump between the discographies and reference works such as the Goldmine Jazz Album price guide (or Discogs, for that matter) to identify the respective album by its title? Jazzdisco.org is a commendable exception but other "typical" discographies fall short (if not to say "fall flat on their faces") in that respect. Just to give an example of the gaps that Both Sides Now fills, in early 2025 I took out the "King labels" and "Aladdin/Imperial labels" discographies by Ruppli from our regional State libray and ran almost the entire books through my photocopier at home. And then I printed out the respective Both Sides Now listings of "King/Federal/Deluxe/Queen" as well as the Aladdin and Imperial Album listings and filed them in the respective binders alongside the Ruppli discographies. A combination that is as perfectly complementary for reference as it could possibly be!

I take it, then, that "boutique label" means COLLECTOR label, right?

I suppose the Capitol Records discography accessible on the Both Sides Now site is not detailed enough for you? https://www.bsnpubs.com/discoga-c.html