Big Beat Steve

No, not the trumpeter. John Chilton mentions in his "Who's Who of Jazz" that Walter "Foots" Thomas had a brother named Joe (born in 1908) who played tenor saxophone but he also explicitly says that this is NOT "THE" Joe Thomas (the tenor saxophonist) who was with Jimmie Lunceford and co-led the band for a while with Ed Wilcox after Lunceford's death. And neither was he related to Joe Thomas the TRUMPETER who was with Fletcher Henderson, Willie Bryant, Claude Hopkins, Benny Carter, Teddy Wilson (but never with Lunceford as far as I know) and freelanced a lot in the 40s. According to Leonard Feather's Encyclopedia of Jazz, Walter's "real" brother Joe (the less famous of the two sax-playing Joes) was with Blanche Calloway and other name bands in the 30s and gave up playing to become a vocal coach in the 40s. He later worked as an A&R man for Decca and directed countless R&B dates. I agree that the these Walter "Foots" Thomas "all-star" recordings are great indeed. I bought the Prestige LP shown above in my early collecting days while still in school in the late 70s and it got a lot of spins on the turntable (I later even considered buying the Harlequin reissue as a "replacement" copy but somehow never did...). Re- Walter's teaching activities, an ad in an April 1945 music paper reads: "Walter Foots Thomas - Teacher of Saxophone (formerly with Cab Calloway) - Special instructions for Improvising and Ad Lib Playing - Correspondence Courses on Improvisation now Available"

I've wondered about that too when I read both Ted Gioia's "West Coast Jazz" and Robert Gordon's "Jazz West Coat". Both devote chapters to "LA Hard Bop" and "California Hard", respectively (according to the authors, Herb Geller, Hampton Hawes and Pepper Adams are others that would fall into that category, as would Frank Rosolino's "Free For All" I mentioned above). It all depends what you think of the categories they use. Some music just isn't that easy to pigeonhole, it seems.

Even if he had seen you that wouldn't have helped. The Mole Jazz bags were all black. Impossible to see what's inside!

The Shorty Rogers "Short Stops" (especially the "Courts the Count" material on this twofer) and the Shelly Manne records ("West Coast Sound" and "Blackhawk" are really recommended. You might also like to check out Howard Rumsey's Lighthouse All Stars, especially "Sunday Jazz At The Lighthouse", "Music for Lighthousekeeping", "In The Solo Spotlight". Reissues should be available in the OJC series. (On the other hand, I am not too fond of the "Oboe/Flute" Lighthouse All Stars release in this series. This is a bit effeminate for my taste and may be one of those releases that gave West Coast jazz a bad name back then.) Another item that may be hard to find but is some sort of revelation: Frank Rosolino "Free For All" (Specialty SP 2161 - a 1958 session that remained unissued until after Rosolino's death)

Agreed - Red Mitchell seems to be one of those unjustly underrated jazzmen. Maybe the fact that he spent much of his later life in Europe (Sweden) was a contributing factor. At any rate, he is one of those names that make me think "the session can't have been bad" when I see his name in the line-up, and I always enjoyed his "Presenting Red Mitchell" album on Contemporary and his "HappyMinors" and "Some Hot Some Sweet Some Mild" albums on Bethlehem, for example, not to mention his work as a sideman (with Red Norvo, etc.). As for him having "the cleanest chops on the West Coast", I don't feel qualified to judge that but this might get you into an argument with Curtis Counce followers ...

Here is another one who admits he likes West Coast jazz (though this does not prevent me from digging other jazz styles too). I sure am glad Fresh Sound Records made so many West Coast goodies available again. Some of the West Coast stuff is stiff and overly formal and precalculated indeed but as you rightly say a lot of it swings in a way that is "light and open and intense in an understated way" (that sums it up quite nicely). By the way, though, according to period reports Gerry Mulligan resented being associated with the West Coast movement!

That's because when I bought my copy of this record at a secondhand record store a couple of years ago I took the car to get home, not the bus!

A fine collection (and not all that overpriced). And the music from the other two 10" Vogue releases is nice to have too for those who are into this kind of early 50s European jazz as the 10" originals usually go for big money on eBay (the Japanese buyers' syndrome and their fondness for "Eurojazz" again ...).

The other of the two Straight Ahead Jazz LP's (Vol. 1 - SAJ-1001) gives May 31, 1953 as the recording date for the final 6 tracks of the above listing. Is this definitely wrong? Have both LP's been recorded on March 30/April 1, 1953? Just wondering ...

Still that CD has one big drawback: It's a CD only Nothing beats good ol' Vinyl - that one's gonna last forever (and who knows what future umpteenth-generation CD players might do with present-day CD's one day - "data format not recognized" etc. ) No, seriously: At the time the two LP's were around (even as secondhand items) the CD might not have been on the market yet so there was no choice. Finally, thanks for the line-up, Chuck Nessa. Will note it on my copy tonight after work.

Brownie, I agree that the French RCA releases of Fats' material were a mess insofar as they did the two Memorial box sets first and then put the other or alternate tracks up to 1939 on 18 or so LP's in their Black & White series. So most sessions were split over several albums. But - generally speaking - do you find all this strictly chronological reissuing of music fom the 78rpm era (such as on the Classics series) always all that fascinating to listen to it - fillers, duds, all too commercial or downright forgettable ditties and all included? Maybe a nice approach if you do your collecting strictly from an accountant's point of view, but at times there is more to it (much as I deplore the lack of coherence of some former reissues programs of the vinyl era which you could only make up for more recently with the Classics series and similar CD reissue programs). Maybe it's also a matter of principle of which medium one prefers (I do buy CD's to close certain gaps in my collection but I also admit I quickly got rid of some CD's again when I got hold of exactly the same material on vinyl after all ;-) ).

Does this series cover ALL his works (i.e. including those tracks recorded during his stay in Britain, for example, that I think were not included in the various French RCA box sets and Black & White single LP's from the 70s?) I, for one, won't get rid of this good old vinyl, that's for sure, but maybe the British tracks will make it to a separate CD in the series.

Thanks Peter - I'll have to check this one out!

You're talking about the "World of Jazz" series LP (EMI-Electrola 1C 056-85609)?

An endless subject ... Referring to "Silver's Blue above", this seems to be a case of different sleeves being used for different countries where the original issues where released and pressed locally and not as imports. The one on the right seems to be the Dutch release, and the second to the right is the French one. Back then the French seem to have had a habit of doing their own sleeves that were totally different from the original U.S. releases (same for certain Dutch labels such as Phillips). My French "original" of Harold Land's "Hear Ye", for example, has a cover totally different from that of the U.S. Atlantic pressing. And there are MANY more like this (such as NUMEROUS different covers of the Buck Clayton Jam sessions originally on Columbia). But once you get into REISSUES you tend to get lost totally, especially if ownership to the rights of the original label has changed in between and if you live in Europe where numerous national branches followed their own policies. When the 50s Vanguard 10" LP's were re-released in the 70s, for example, some of the Vic Dickension stuff was reissued in Britain on a twofer with modern artwork on the resurrected Vanguard label (distributed by RCA) in 1973. Not long afterwards exactly the same material cropped up (in Britan again) on a Vogue twofer (this time distributed by Pye) under the title "The Essential Vic Dickenson" (yeah, you guessed - I ended up with both because when you try to remember in a record shop about 600 miles from home if you have any particular music those totally different covers can get you pretty much hung up). When you buy Fresh Sound reissues with their nicely done repros of the original covers you better remember that some of the stuff that originally was on Coral had already been reissued earlier on German MCA in their "Jazz Lab" series with totally bland covers. So you better check what you already have first. Another case in point are the '80s Affinity reissues of Bethlehem LP's. Totally different covers but probably on the market at the same time as the Fresh Sound repro reissues. The same goes for Fresh Sound repros of RCA LP's from the 50s that might duplicate some of the material in the French RCA Jazzline series reissues of the same material (which had modern, uninspired covers). And so on and so on ...

Goldmine seen to reword their grading from time to time. Anyway, the gap between their VG+ and VG grades does not seem to be as large (anymore?) as it seemed when taking the wording of the grading given in the 2nd edition of the Collectible Jazz Albums 1949-1969, for example. There is one thing that bothers me a bit about those Goldmine grading criteria, though. As far as the COVERS go, the description of typical wear is all too exclusively geared towards U.S. originals with their typical cardboards stuck together by the paper layers across the seams that practically invite seam splits. Take any British or French original from the 50s or early 60s for example (e.g. British or French Vogue releases). As the sleeves of these European releases are made of thicker laminated PAPER that overall is far thinner (but does not necessarily wear faster) than the U.S. cardboard sleeves, some of the criteria used for the U.S. covers just do not make sense. For example, no matter how good one of these thinner sleeves is, the contours of the record will almost always have left an impression in the cover. Now does this mean "ring wear" with a corresponding downgrade of the sleeve condition, although this is nowhere like the typical U.S. cover ring wear with wiped out printer's ink? And then these covers typically suffer from other types of wear than U.S. covers (e.g. lamination starting to flake around the edges, and the corners get dinged much faster than the U.S. cardboards, etc.). Hard to judge and leading to more discussions again ... Or is there a universally accepted European version of Goldmine ?

Care to name any? I've bought records in Paris before too (and a bit on eBay) and can say that they are not all alike. Some really do give good service and are helpful (to foreigners who speak their own language, anyway ). At any rate, the nationality probably hasn't that much to do with the way you're being treated on eBay, and on the other hand there ARE a few U.S. online sellers out there who seem to look down on those "Yurpeans". You get the good and bad guys either way ...

Another thought on this often-used VG+ grade: If I think the Goldmine grading criteria closely over, somehow I feel there is a HUGE gap between the Goldmine quality grading of an "infrequently played" VG+ and a VG with "countless spins" (as well as their "loss of gloss" criteria, etc.). I'd figure that A LOT of well-played but well cared for LP's fall into the range in between these two descriptions (maybe even the one that Daniel A bought?). How to grade these? Is there anything like "VG and a half"? Note that I am no record dealer at all but I guess records in this condition aren't easy to grade if you neither want to downgrade your own stuff overconservatively (seeing that many buyers seem to think anything "VG" is totally trashy and worn out beyond recall) nor want to fall into the nitpickers' traps .

Just one question on the side: Doesn't the condition of the stylus play a pretty important role too? I've found some of my (carefully handled and visually very good but well-played ) records that used to skip at certain places to stop skipping all of a sudden when the stylus was replaced with a new one (as we all periodically do, I guess). Just a light pop was audible where the record used to skip. Apart from that, the problem with VG+ (if I go by my - admittedly not exhaustive - experience) is that some scratches that you can actually feel will never skip whereas others that do not look that bad will cause the record to skip for sure. Don't ask me why ... Could it be that some vinyls will stand more abuse than others before they start to skip all over the place? That's the problem with visual grading, just like Peter A said. I'd expect some pops, ticks and crackles with VG+ anytime, though.

Joe Gordon didn't have all that many dates as a leader. Any opinions on his first LP, "Introducing Mr Gordon" on EmArcy (1954/55)? I picked up a reissue of the 12" release some years back and was quite impressed (others too, it seems ... the original release got a 4 star rating in Down Beat).

Quite a few doubles have accumulated in my collection so it is high time to pass them on. I have copies of the following jazz magazines (mostly European) for sale or trade: JAZZ PODIUM (German) – virtually complete years from 1973 to 1976, 1981 to 1987, and 1990 ORKESTER JOURNALEN (Swedish) – Jan. 46, Feb. 46, Dec. 48, Sept. 49, Oct. 51, Dec. 53 plus many more from 1955 to 1961 ESTRAD (Swedish) – Jan. 1955 plus various issues from 1956, 1958, 1959 and 1963 JAZZ HOT (French) – No. 42 (March 1950), plus various issues from 1951, 1953, 1955, 1956, 1958, 1959 JAZZ MAGAZINE (French) – a few issues from 1959 and 1962 DOWN BEAT – issues dated Sept. 8, 1954 – Aug. 10, 1955 – Aug. 24, 1955 – Oct. 19, 1955 Prices to be negotiated. Please contact me by e-mail for detailed listings of issues, etc. As I am looking for specific issues of JAZZ HOT, ESTRAD, ORKESTER JOURNALEN and JAZZ MAGAZINE to complete my personal collection, I’d also welcome hearing from any jazz fans who might be interested in doing a trade – and from anybody else, of course. Looking forward to hearing from you!

I've got that one. I wouldn't say it's as dull as Stereojack says but it is much more conventional indeed than one might think at first sight. You might consider it some kind of "The Count Basie Orchestra (a somewhat restrained version of it - late 50s style) Plays The Coasters and Elvis Presley Songbook" According to the liner notes Frank Foster had a hand in the arrangements. An amusing record to have for its curiosity value, anyway.

Straight from the horse's mouth (just received the Bear Family catalog a couple of days ago): WEST INDIAN RHYTHM - Trinidad Calypsos On World and Local Events Featuring the Censored Recordings - 1938-40 10-CD box with hardcover book (including 33 masters never released before), order No. BCD 16623 JM These ARE Decca masters indeed and the Dick Spottswood mentioned above was involved in writing the accompanying book.

Amusing thread, this one. Now I'm pretty new to this forum but certainly not to jazz listening and record collecting - in fact I'm into my 32nd year of buying and collecting Jazz records (I started at the age of 15) so I figure I'm not that dumb as far as the music, its makers and its history are concerned. And yet - even after all these years, I gladly admit the AMG Guide to Jazz (2nd edition) I got hold of sometime in the 90s came in very useful to me indeed, as did the Third Ear "Essential listening companions" on Swing and Bebop, and I have been consulting them from time to time ever since I got them. I don't quite get it why so many around here seem to have a bone to pick with Scott Yanow (but then I can't and won't read all the threads that mention his name) but just to get my 2c in on this: I never would have thought any of his guides (or any other guides, except maybe those old, yellowed writings by that irascible Hugues Panassié ) might have been intended to tell the reader (and jazz fan) what he is SUPPOSED to buy and appreciate. I realize newcomers would use Yanow's books to guide them through the flood of reissues, bit I, for one, use Yanow's books rather as a more or less rough check list on what there was available (again) at the time of writing and just to see if I may have overlooked any major work of any artist that might fall within the scope of the kind of jazz I am most interested in. I certainly don't go along with all of his judgments and there are a few glaring errors and omissions (I admit I once could not resist the temptation of mentioning this in a reader's review on Amazon ), but his comments on a disc he either likes or dislikes in most cases give at least a hint of why one might want to obtain it or not. And I am certainly grateful to Scott Yanow for tipping me off to the existence of this or that LP or CD that from his description filled a gap in my collection (nobody knows'em all - is there anybody out there who can claim he is familiar with ALL reissues worldwide of the jazz, say, of 1930 to 1960 released during the past 35 years or so?). On the bottom line everybody ought to make his own judgments anyway. Sometimes I even find myself browsing through those early Down Beat Record Reviews yearbooks or the review sections of old copies of Orkester Journalen or Jazz Hot and compare their reviews with those of Yanow's guide - it is amazing and highly amusing to see how you sometimes get three or four totally different assessments! So what ... those of us who've been into jazz for a while, we all are able to judge for ourselves, aren't we, so do we always have to agree with Scott Yanow anyhow? In short, nobody's perfect, but if you need some extra written information on the recorded music and if you refer to and rely on more than one source, Yanow's books aren't that bad as ONE of these sources. And then you decide for yourself and you know where to go from there. By the way, Mr Yanow, if you read this: Is there any likelihood we'll ever see the WEST COAST JAZZ volume of the Third Ear Essential Listening Companion mentioned as a "forthcoming" volume in one of the other books (Swing or Bebop)? How about it? So long - and take it easy, everybody, it's only music ... -_-

Referring to Mikeweil's posting, Wilton Gaynair was active on the German jazz scene in his younger days (late 50s, i.e. around the time of Blue Bogey record) as a member of the George Maycock combo. His only recorded legacy from that spell in Germany, however, was one single track with George Maycock on the „Berlin Calling“ LP (Bertelsmann 61161) featuring highlights from the „Jazz Salon Berlin“ festival in early 1959 in Berlin (one of those “Eurojazz“ LP’s that tend to fetch silly prices on eBay). Incidentally, the March, 1959 issue of the Swedish jazz magazine ESTRAD carried the following note on the George Maycock combo in its coverage of the Berlin Jazz Salon 1959: “The other surprise of the evening was a small, slightly rough negro band, the George Maycock combo that has had its home base in Europe for a long time, and it was mostly its rhythm section that accounted for the roughness. The trumpeter has a lively but somewhat bland, modern style but the tenor sax man came as a nice surprise. His style was no aping of John Coltrane but rather a parallel, surprisingly complete development. At any rate he became the evening’s topic number one and it can only be hoped that some record company will record him in the right setting. His name: Wilton Gaynair – an name to be remembered!“ Nice words, but unfortunately in a language unintelligible to almost all the jazzheads across the Big Pond!