Big Beat Steve

Or we might all have to switch EUROPEAN jazz for good. Take Caprice or Dragon for Swedish jazz, Riviera for reissues of Italian jazz, and Czech jazz has quite a few reissues going too, and there are others elsewhere, etc. etc. And what is more - if European collector labels just were to focus on reissuing EUROPEAN jazz then none of the Americans who seem so terribly concerned about the 50-year limit of the Public Domain issue (yet buy the discs) won't have to complain anymore at all. No, seriously - and while I won't want to start the P.D. debate over again (it's all been said), aren't the European laws just that - laws? And whatever is done in accordance with (!) those laws is therefore perfectly legal, and we Europeans have no need to come up with excuses. And besides, how many U.S. jazz records would NEVER EVER have been reissued anywhere if no Europeans had ever taken the initiative? I've said it before and am going to say it again: Somehow I wonder how labels such as Document or Ace or Krazy Kat manage to make nicely done CD reissues happen that are produced and remastered (to the extent possible) anew and are not just recyclates of remastered tracks from other CD's released shortly before (the main argument brought up against companies such as Proper and Membran as it discourages legit sources from producing NEW reissues for fear that they will be cannibalised by those cheapo labels immediately after their release). And where would all those recordings on all those independent labels end up if nobody took care of them? The big conglomerates couldn't care less anyway ...

Not the SWEDES FROM JAZZVILLE LP on EPIC (Columbia subsidiary), I suppose?

And same here! Till later Steve

We're severely OT now but I will try to answer anyhow: I guess this is a question you would have to ask those who bought any of those CD series at the time. Completists who searched out the studio recordings being more numerous maybe ... Not everybody caring that much for alternates if he is intent on getting the master take of every studio recording first... And money is limited so hardly anybody can afford everything ... Who knows ... At any rate, I remember seeing both series in CD stalls at the time (though the Classics series always was stocked to a greater extent than the MoJ series of which the shops that I happened to visit always carried only a certain cross-section) and often was appalled by the fact that I hardly ever would have managed to get more than maybe half the contents of a CD that was new to my collection (which includes a fairly decent selection on vinyl). Some may have been glad to dump all their vinyl and go for CD's only but even they probably found themselves drowning in a flood of disorganized and often overlapping reissues with numerous companies jumping on the bandwagon and not enough buyers remaining for all the discs pushed onto this comparatively small market ... A pity in every respect ... By the way, the Classics series seems to be very close to being belly up as well so nothing much is won for the collector ... This is why I somehow envy the blues people and the reissue policy of some of their collector labels where you did indeed find reissues where the labels were NOT ashamed of putting out discs that basically said "This record is intended to fill gaps in the blues fans collections and therefore explicity avoids duplicating tracks with this and that currently or recently available record..." I find it hard to believe that the pre-war blues market is that much bigger than that of 20s to 50s jazz or are pre-war blues fans that much more discerning?

Brownie, the photographer is HERMAN LEONARD. This pic is on page 156 of the "L'Oeil du Jazz" book on Leonard's jazz photographs published by Filipacchi in 1985 (which I figure you are bound to have somehwere ). @king ubu: About that March 15, 1956 session once more: Good to see it's so easily available as a reissue. Back in 2002 I was rather surprised to see a VG- copy (!!) of the CfD 10inch release sold for a whopping $512.00 on eBay. (A case for the eBay madness thread here...) This made me cherish my German original 10in release (in NM condition) all the more, though I would not have parted with it anyway ...

Are you really surprised? Just remember how much of this series duplicated the material in the "CLASSICS" CD series. Somehow I envy the lovers of really old ("classic") pre-war blues. They sure got a fine thing going with all those reissues on the Wolf, Document and similar labels that tried to get really everything in that field of music back into reissue yet try to avoid duplication wherever possible and are quite prepared to put out records that clearly are compiled accordingly.

The March 16, 1956 session is this one I mentioned above: Zoot Sims with Henri Renaud/Jon Eardley (Swing, originally on Ducretet-Thomson) It was in that LP reissue series on the Swing label a couple of years back. The session recorded the day before (March 15, 1956) was not only on that CfD record club label but also on a German "Deutscher Schallplattenclub" 10-incher. So it might even have been on a corresponding Swiss ExLibris issue and you might perhaps find it at a fleamarket somewhere if you want an original by all means ...

I don't have the background knowledge that Larry Kart evidently has and I won't go into the debate over whether the early or late Zoot was better as I haven't listened to enough of his later work to really judge it. In addition to his 50s recordings that I mentioned earlier (one era of jazz of particular interest to me so this is why have these), just an additional plug for the two Zoot LP's with Bob Brookmeyer for the Storyville label (later reissued on Black Lion - nice stuff, although those occasional vocals by Zoot are a bit odd) and of course his Blue Note item with Jutta Hipp which I totally forgot earlier. I also agree that Quincy Jones' "This is How I Feel About Jazz" has great solo parts. However, as for the goodies in the 70s Pablo recordings by Zoot, I'd go for "Basie and Zoot" from 1975 first (one I have passed by too often in the past and which is now on my shopping ist).

Don't know the one you started with but here are a few of my favorites. I have a lot of his 50s LP's (vinyl) and particularly like the following: Zoot Sims Quartets (Prestige) Zoot Sims with Henri Renaud/Jon Eardley (Swing, originally on Ducretet-Thomson) The modern Art of Jazz (Dawn, reissued a.o. as "One to Blow on" on Biograph and Meteor) Zoot Sims Goes to Jazzville (Dawn, reisued a.o. as "The Big Stampede" on Biograph) Zoot Sims plays Foru Altos (ABC, reissued on MCA Impulse) Zoot Sims Plays Alto, Tenor and Baritone (ABC) Zoot! (Riverside/OJC) Zoot (Cadet) Down Home (Bethlehem) His collaborations with Al Cohn are also enjoyable throughout: From A to Z (RCA) Al and Zoot (Coral/Jasmine) You 'n' Me (Mercury) I've also heard nothing but praise about most of his 70s recordings for the Pablo label. Enjoy!

Getting back to your original question, I don't think this "Body and soul" is a "phantom track". It looks more like a slipup on the jazzdisco page that you got this from. I have this Jazz Showcase 5005 LP and it does include all THREE tracks from that live recording (i.e. including Body and Soul). And the Bruyninckx discography also lists all three tracks (they are listed under Howard McGhee's name there as he apparently was the leader for that gig).

Clunky, did I miss something or did they rearrange the music of those PJ/Liberty LP's for the CD reissues? I have the Blue Note LP reissue of "Tenors Head-On" as well as the Jap Toshiba-EMI repro LP reissue of "Just Friends" Perkins/Pepper/Kamuca (PJ M-401) and I cannot see any duplication between the two (both use the original LP track selections, of course). Since Chewy asked about the players of "On Stage" (of which I also have the Toshiba/EMI repro reissue) has Bill Perkins (ts), Bud SHank (as), Jack Nimitz (BS and bcl), Stu Williamson (tp and vtb), Carl Fontana (tb), Russ Freeman (p), Red mitchell (b), Mel Lewis (d). Haven't listened to it in quite a while but Down Beat rated it 3 and a half stars and said "it is attractive in a low-keyed way (even the jumpers tend to smile more than they shout)", and "the album is alright but Perkins is so good a jazzman that he can do much better". Sounds like the East Coast reviewer weas still trying to get to grips with the laid-back attitude of some Westcoast "blowing".

Yes, they seem to ship outside Europe (check under "Customer Service"). After all they are connected to the distributor of the Caprice label that produces these box sets. All volumes except Vol. 5 are listed on their site. It might pay to shop around and check with other sellers, though. As their prices start at the equivalent of some 30 euros per CD set I wonder what other sellers would charge. When I bought Vol. 7 and 8 some 9 months ago I paid 23 euros apiece from a German mailorder shop (but I don't know if this one ships outside the European Union - it's more or less a one-man operation). At any rate, all of these CD sets are great stuff and should raise many an eyebrow even with those jazz buffs who think they "have everything". BTW, if you are into Swedish Jazz, also check out the reissue catalog of the DRAGON label!

Vol. 5 (SPJ 149) had recordings the the Buddy Rich Quintet and Trio (and featuring Sonny Criss and the Davel Lambert Singers on some tracks) done in November 1958. Vol. 6 (SPJ 153) had two sets by the Oscar Pettiford Orchestra ("Birdland Band") recorded at Birdland on 26 May 1957 and Summer/Autumn 1957.

You are talking about the Progressive reissue (copyright date 1985) with record # PRO-7001 and green cover? According to older discographies (Jepsen's) this session was first released on Preogressive PLP 1001. The pic below should be this original release. I understood Prestige 7820 with this date to be a later 60s reissue of that Progressive LP, and the more recent Progressive PRO-7001 to include the same material over again. I haven't listened to Prestige 7820, but two sets (original Prestige takes and "outtakes") from the same live gig, i.e. the same set played twice during one evening? Don't know. On the other hand, why would the original releae say "Featuring "The Peck"" when this is only a brief signoff on PRO-7001?

Actually, it wasn't the Uptown site itself (sorry). I checked this release here: http://www.cduniverse.com/sresult.asp?styl...29&cart=506 http://www.jazzreview.com/cdreview.cfm?ID=5818 As for the BEFORE MOTOWN project, that sure sounds interesting and really would fill a gap. The BEFORE MOTOWN book by Lars Bjorn and Jim Gallert is just fantastic and really makes you want to hear the music of the local combos and bands mentioned throughout the book. I wouldn't even mind listening through the noise of some extremely lo-fi actates in a case like this ... Boppin' Xmas regards Steve

tell me you're joking. please... -e- Must have had a DIM moment when he asked that ... :D

I have their 1955 LP released by Liberty in the "Jazz in Hollywood" series (LJH 6005). I first became aware of them through the Liberty "Jazz in Hollywood" sampler that has one of their tracks and then picked up this LP through eBay just to see what it was all about. (They later did a second LP for Liberty but I've never heard that one) I can imagine that musicians will find this material intriguing; for me as a non-musician it is quite interesting to listen to but I'd qualify only part of it as jazz. (Neither Jepsen nor Bruyninckx list these LP's in their discographies, by the way) The musicians were Russ Cheever (ss), Jack Dumont (as), Morrie Crawford (ts), Bill Ulyate (bs) plus Mike Rubin (b) and Richie Cornell (d). According to the liner notes of LJH 6005 the arrangements were done by Marty Paich, Lennie Niehaus, Jack Montrose, Warren Barker, Russ Garcia, Billy May and Morrie Crawford: Lennie Niehaus contributed the arrangements to 4 of the 12 titles on the LP.

John, I realize all that. Yet it is only part of the overall picture: 1) What Chronological Classics has done mostly concerns "name" artists and bandleaders (even those minor-league stars they feature were at least that, i.e. minor-league STARS). And these chronological series just highlight the key problem: If you are just after one or two sessions that may have been routinely omitted elsewhere in reissues of an artist's body of work (because they were on some more unknown label) and have all the rest you might have to buy 2 CD's to add maybe 8 or 12 new tracks from 2 or 3 sessions. Fine for those who do not have anything yet or who are keen on dumping what they have to start all over again but disgusting and frustrating for the others. I may have missed some goodies from the Classics series but sadly had to skip quite a few others for exactly that reason. 2) What I was primarily thinking of was what you would call "minor" jazz leaders - not in a sense of artistical quality but rather those sidemen who only had relatively few sessions as leaders, and there were many of those in the late 30s to early 50s. This music mostly was found on those "indie" labels so it is not a matter of searching any "vaults" (because in most cases there aren't any). It would rather be a question of entreprising souls who round up decent 78s that will lend themselves to at least a decent level of mastering. One case in point that comes to mind now and then are the recordings by Ray Linn from 1946 (for the very simple reason that I once missed one of his 78s on eBay ). As far as I know only two of the eight tracks he recorded commercially were reissued (on a fairly oscure German LP from the 80s). And there are LOTs more like that. In short, this would concern MANY of those 4-track sessions done throughout that period for a great many labels and would make some pretty nice compilations such as the "Bebop Revisited" LP series on Xanadu and similar releases on Onyx, etc. etc. Is there really no incentive for compiling anything like that anymore? After all this always addressed a minority taste only and production costs probably were higher for vinyl than they are for CD's today. As for the question of "pirating" and the 50-year "public domain" limit, I'd rather not go into that here. It's not as clear as one might assume and it's no one-way business. So it really boils down to the question of whether the times of reissue labels such as Xanadu and Onyx or of the Japanese Pea-Vine LP's and others that were really covering mostly new ground on the reissue market are definitely over? (Except for labels such as Hep and Uptown, that is ...)

That probably explains why they called the 78 rpm release "Unfinished Bopera" (or so the Jepsen discography says; Jepsen lists "What is this thing called love" as a separate title with a Savoy LP release only; this was some 20 years before SJL 2242). I happen to have that 78 and the "Unfinished Bopera" takes up one side only, but I admit I haven't made an aural comparison with SJL 2242. Thanks for pointing this out!

Yeah, I admit I did not have the Swingtime LP on hand when I wrote that (as tracks like "This subdues my passion" rang a bell). 20 new ones out of 24 is an acceptable score BTW, I half expected hearing from you, seeing that you were involved in the production of the Baron Mingus CD on Uptown. Will definitely check it out and try to get it. Any other rarities labels/series besides Uptown?

Thanks for your suggestions, Jazzbo. Can' imagine there being a lot of 40s Parker or Gillespie studio recordings that have not been reissued and I don't have already. Quite a few early Baron Mingus sides have been reissued on vinyl on the Swingtime label. (Yeah, there we go again, you see? ) As for Allen Eager, the Uptown release sounds good as far as the description on their website goes. Seems like these are live recordings. Nothing wrong with that at all (I immensely like the Serge Chaloff CD done by Uptown) but it makes me wonder why lots of unreleased recordings are issued for the first time while at the same time hardly anybody seems to bother about REISSUING records for the first time ever that had NEVER been available on anything but 78s. No, I am not that hard to please at all, but it really looks like I am searching for labels that are daring enough to reissue sort of "The overlooked ...." single-artist or regional compilations aimed specifically at filling those permanent gaps that remain for anybody who does not have the original 78s. Anyway, any other suggestions warmly welcomed!

Summing up a few threads on recent and not so recent reissues, a recurrent topic has been that this or that among the Jazz music from past eras that's on currently hailed CD's has been reissued over and over again before in various combinations. As a result, anybody who already has a relatively substantial Jazz collection (and who - like myself - is certainly NOT ready to dump his vinyl!) is faced with the problem that he will almost never be able to add any new jazz reissues from the 78 rpm era where he does not already have a good deal of the music in his collection. So you actually are buying CD's for only about half the worth of the music (or even less). However, browsing through the usual discographies you come across a lot of never-reissued tracks and sometimes even artists whose recorded output has almost never found its way onto any reissues (vinyl or CD) yet, at least not any reissues that are not totally obscure (I think I am aware of a lot of what's been on the market since the late 60s/early 70s, although may have missed quite a few Japanese obscurities). Back in the vinyl days the problem existed too but at least there were some collector labels that even went so far as to proclaim in their liner notes that this and that title or session had expressly been omitted from any particular reissue on a single artist (or a compilation) because it was available elsewhere (even though that other label may have come from a totally different country and may even just have gone out of print at that time of release). So obviously those who compiled those vinyl reissues assumed that their buyer target groups were discerning and astute enough to have covered the entire market and would consciously like to avoid doubling up too many tracks, even if this meant that they would not be buying a "Greatest Hits" compilation of an artist's past work. Somehow I feel that whatever new reissues from the 78 rpm era are resurrected today (either in the field of small-band swing or bebop or R&B) will always be hidden among an even larger chunk of well-known and often-reissued material. The only exceptions I am aware of are certain reissues of European jazz from that period. So my question is this: Are there any (maybe not all that common) current reissue CD'S or labels featuring jazz from the late 30s, 40s and early 50s that really are compiled in a manner that does not recycle the usual stuff yet another time but consciously tries to dig out previously unreleased music in a rather consequent manner, e.g. sessions originally released on those numerous "indie" labels from the 40s? The music is there at any rate and is just waiting to be resurrected. Thanks for any hints on not so obviously marketed reissue labels you may have.

Thanks Brownie! So I wasn't far off the mark ... The "new" tracks would be interesting to listen to but buying a 3-CD set just for those few tracks and ending up with another CD set where you already have 75% of the music (or more)? I'd do that if it was a Membran CD set at the typical Membran prices (4 CD's for 9.99 euros) but that's about the limit. By the way, I wonder if one of the Wild Bill Morre isn't in fact the one issued as "Unfinished Bopera" (Bop 26).

A question about that BOPLAND 3-CD set with the Elks Club concert of 1947: What exactly does this set contain? Is this the stuff that's been out on those red BOP! 78s and has been known under the "Bopland Boys" tag and was reissued more recently on various Savoy 2-LP sets, i.e. the following tracks: Disorder at the Border/Cheroket/Byas-A-Drink/The Hunt (also known variously under other titles such as Bopera/Rocks'n'Shoals etc.) as well as Backbreaker/Blow Blow Blow/Unfinished Bopera ? Is there anything else on this set that's NEVER seen the light of a release before? Just wondering because in the long run it's frustrating how much material you keep doubling and tripling up ...

You mean to say the record label moguls let their laywers work out the fine print and then signed the document without even bothering to check what the fine print said? Or to put it another way, is this to say that those who set their laywers to work on this were not aware of things as important as who owned the rights to certain artists' creative output? I'm tempted to feel sorry for Stax ...