Big Beat Steve

Jean-Claude Fohrenbach - "Fohrenbach French Sound". As for the series being finished, let's hope not ... If they decide to go back into the 78rpm era (like they did with the "Jazz under the Occupation" CD) there MUST be more. Same for releases on the French Polydor label. Also agree about including a facsimile of the original artwork. Though the period Paris street scenes are very nice and in many cases evoke the era of the music nicely ...

Interesting question, Kenny. To us Europeans "Rock'n'Roll" by definition really is only the music from the very first appearance of the likes of Bill Haley, Elvis, etc. around 1954 up to the era until the Beatles broke through (i.e. 1963) - in short, the REAL thing. Beat, 60s Garage Punk, Hard Rock, Country Rock, Psychedelic, Folk Rock, and everything that came afterwards etc. definitely are NOT R'n'R. Rock - yes, but Rock AND Roll... But Americans seem to think differently. I remember a U.S. friend once proudly mentioned a "Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame" museum in his home state of Ohio. Soon afterwards i saw a coffee table book issued by this museum. Very lavishly produced, but mostly Psychedelic, Acid Rock, Hard Rock, etc., i.e. late 60s and 70s stuff. Boy, was I disappointed!

I don't think so ... I don't think eBay would care enough about cancelling an auction set out under THESE terms. They want their fees. What it boils down to is this: IMHO any non-U.S. (or Canadian) bidder would have to fall into one of the following two categories - Somebody foolish enough to be taken advantage of like this, or - some Asian (mostly Japanese) who's got money to burn and just WANTS these items desperately enough to pay ANY amount for it (not rare on eBay) I've seen inflated "handing" surcharges on foreign bids on other eBay items before (though they did seem VERY moderate compared to this) and have never bid on such items as a matter of principle (I am not going to use the term for such transactions that immediately comes to mind, but ... )). Anyway ... no extra waiting time required, for example, for filling in a customs form and having to queue up at a separate post office counter for mailing overseas shipments could warrant fees like this, and besides, and if the sellers don't want to go into this hassle (that's certainly not the buyer's fault) then they'd better mark their auctions "Domestic bidders only" right from the start (and forsake any higher foreign bids that might them yield even more money).

@mikeweil, king ubu: Did you read the fine (or rather, gross) print to the end, guys? $225 surcharge for Paypal payers from outside the U.S.! (Not to mention the $300 surcharge for Paypal payers from a credit card-based Paypal account) And all this on account of fees allegedly charged by Paypal ... What kind of suckers does this guy think the eBay bidders are? Say what you may about the drawbacks of Paypal but the Papyal fee policy is nowhere like this. C'mon guys, this kind of behavior is more than reason enough to avoid sellers like this like the plague!

BTW, is her brother - R&B saxophonist JOE LUTCHER - still around? He retired from wordly music to become a minister LONG ago but his early 50s small-band R&B recordings are among the finest of their kind.

Could somebody please explain this kind of logic (if any) to me? Did Pops record any bop (a.k.a. jiu jitsu music in his lingo) at all? So is there anything by him AFTER his "pre-bop recordings" to listen to? Does this mean jazzkat listens to those Pops recordings that are the most non-jazz recordings of his that he ever made? Strange, very strange ...

I have to agree with Chewy - of sorts ...: The studio recordings by both of them from that era are fine, BUT: I - These live recordings by Dex and Wardell (Chase & The Steeplechase or The Hunt, etc.) really aren't that bad sound-wise. No super hi fi but good enough compared to a lot of other live stuff that has been released through the years. II - They do get to stretch out there, and creating pure excitement is no mean feat either. Remember you jazzheads out there: Wasn't it the jazziest of the jazzy jazzheads that have always complained both about the fact that the 3-minute 78rpm limit severely hampered the creative flow of the jazzmen and about the fact that jazz lost its grip on the people and its ties with popular music and retreated into an ivory tower after 1945? Now here you get both - jazzmen stretching out AND connecting with the crowds. There IS "lasting value" there. So what's the deal? So just listen to these Gene Norman Just Jazz live sessions and all the rest and picture yourselves there, with no false pretenses but just for the ENJOYMENT of JAZZ. What can be bad about that? III - Creative "contemplativity" is all well, but they did their share of that anyway so there's something for everybody. Do you need more of the same all the time? Creativity doesn't have to be contemplative forever in order to be just that - creative. And if you need yet more sax ballad contemplativity, spin another Ben Webster or Johnny Hodges disc.

I am no expert on the situation of jazz in all of Europe in the 50s and 60s, of course, but you got to distinguish between two aspects: On the one hand, jazzmen (especially visiting U.S. stars) certainly were treated with much more respect and held in awe throughout the entire jazz community than may have often been the case in the States. So this ties in with your impression. On the other, the jazz fraternity (including its main promoters) seemed to have felt ill at ease compared to the musical scene at large and felt that respect for jazz as a valid art form could only be achieved by elevating jazz in every respect possible onto a pedestal similar to that occupied by classical music (at least that was clearly the case in Germany for quite some time and became quite obvious while this "Third Stream" was all the rage). Jacques Loussier definitely was a HUGE seller over here and his Play Bach discs are among those that still crop up in secondhand record bins here even if these bins are otherwise totally devoid of anything jazz (except for maybe the occasional Glenn Miller or Satchmo album).

I don't really know about the U.S. angle on this but from an EUropean point of view it was like this: Jazz in Europe (and here in Germany, in particular) had always had a hard time fighting for its "respectability" in musical and cultural circles after 1945. And what would bestow more respectability on any music in good old Europe than its approval by "legitimate" forms of music, i.e. CLASSICAL music? Jazz magazines went out of their way over here in the German-language area to move jazz close to those "respectable" musical art forms (denigrating most of Lionel Hampton's European tours as something more akin to that oh so condemnable musical bastard called rock'n'roll, for example). Presenting jazz in a "serious", dead-earnest concert setting was more like it. As a result, those attempts of U.S. exponents such as the Modern Jazz Quartet and their ilk to mate jazz and classical music into something new and "respectable" that became the "Third stream" was greeted with open arms. And would it surprise you therefore, that other main exponents such as George Gruntz or Eugen Cicero came from a Central European background too? Reading European jazz mags from that period and comparing the contents of our #1 German jazz mag of the time (JAZZ PODIUM) with contemporary mags from France and Sweden, for example (which showed how much more virile and lively jazz happenings were there), just shows to which extent still jazz lacked its self-esteem here and had to rely on that crutch that classical "longhair" music was. I for one don't feel sorry for the fact the this "Third Stream" thing eventually proved to be an artistic dead end.

Hey, so was I (born almost 2 decades after Charlie C.'s death), but no offense meant - when I said "newbie" I meant "Charlie Christian recording newbie" (no matter how long you've been into digging jazz overall). Because sadly it looks like there is not very much on these boxes that you do not have yet if you have the "usual" suspects, i.e. the Minton's sessions and those Benny Goodman Sextet recordings, broadcasts, rehearsals, etc. that have been around in various reissue guises through the years. Wish there was more that's a real first-time release or reissue ...

DSM's drawing style sure is a classic of the era but at times I find his albums fail to portray moods that go beyond the introspective, moody and "low down" and are therefore not always in keeping with the music in the grooves. (See the Tal Farlow album cover - don't have the record No. on hand right now so cannot give the original release No.; this particular cover drawing might as well have been on the cover of some down home "in the gutter" country blues artist's music, yet Tal Farlow's guitar style is light years away from that). To change the tone and make for a contrast, full marks therefore to JIM FLORA's zany RCA cover art. :D

From what I've read on another forum he had been in very bad health for some time so maybe it is a bit of a consolation to realize his suffering did not last forever. Time to play his two Liberty albums ("Sam Songs" and "Quartet") once more now ...

Could it really be that there are any seasoned collectors around to whom JAZZTONE meant nothing at all until Brownie set them wise right here and now? I am .... eh ... surprised .... And while we're discussing those Jazztone sessions, how about Lionel Hampton's mid.50s sessions for the CfD (Club Francais de Disque) and Bertelsmann, etc.? He was extremely prductive in the recording studios during his European tours at that time. I have most of them on original vinyl but they might make a nice Fresh Sound companion volume to the above Jazztone reissue. Speaking of Hampton obscurities, anyone familiar with those 1951 soundies of the Hampton big Band that feature titles like Vibes Boogies, Beulah's Boogie and T.V. special that are around on various DVD soundies reissues (as well as previously on video). According to the discographies they at one time were released on vinyl on the Camay and New World (budget?) labels. Are any more recent CD reissues available and accessible?

In other words, the above 4-CD set is for newbies and completists only, as those who've already been into C.C. during the days when vinyl ruled 100% will have most of this anyway. (Lest anyone chimes in: Yes, I am not one of those who drools over remastering gadgets in search of 0.1% sound improvements compared to previous releases After all there must be some sort of reasonable correlation between money spent and improvement received)

Looking at this pic, maybe it really just is the WEED that's "all good"? :D

No, just different pressings, I guess. The 10in had 4 tracks, the 12in release had 6, and some later reissues had 8 tracks from those 1954 sessions.

I can understand the necessity and desire of reestablishing some names in jazz history to their (assumed or actual) rightful place, and no doubt Oscar Aleman has been underrated. But is this what the discussion of jazz guitarists ought to boil down to? Being in the wrongest place at the right or wrong time (i.e. neither in the USA nor even in Europe) certainly didn't help in promiting his name. Not that this would excuse him being overlooked, but it makes it a bit easier to understand. Focusing on Oscar Aleman therefore is a somewhat narrow approach. I guess you might come with any amount of names of overlooked players of this often underrated instrument in jazz. Does this book, for example, cover Henri Crolla as someone who carried on the legacy of Django? And as for the title of your post (Django vs. Oscar), how about Oscar MOORE? BTW - Jim R, which of the books you mention would you recommend most to those interested mainly in, say, jazz guitar from the beginning up to the 60s?

I don't have the full story on hand but some of the tracks on "Jazz Americana" had originally been released on the Skylark label which was a slightly earlier Hollywood-based label that was in operation around 1954 but went bust pretty soon. Tampa took over the masters and issued them on its own label, sometimes even reissuing the original Skylark 10" LP's with the same contents but with new covers on its own label. The tracks by Oscar Moore, the Lighthouse All Stars, and "Babette" which was originally released under drummer George Redman's name on Skylark but later reappeared on Tampa under Bob Gordon's name (reissued on VSOP, BTW!) are some of those that had first been released by Skylark.

Now THAT would have been some fine cover for such innocent Westcoast music ... :D

So the bottom line is that there actually isn't that much that's really new after all? Just wanted to make sure before I dash down my downtown 2001 shop because (as you said) not many new items have come in during the past 3 or 4 months or so, least of all from the Fantasy/OJC catalog.

Great Westcoast stuff from the Skylark label! "Big Boy" (or was it listed as "M.B.B." = "More Big Boy" on the label?) rocks!! You did well to grab it fast!

A GREAT introduction to Gatemouth Brown's Peacock-era recordings (if you do not want everything strictly chronologically) is the SAN ANTONIO BALLBUSTER LP on the Red Lightning label (also issued later on Ace - or was it Charly? - with a different cover). Still one of my all-time R&B faves.

Checked out the FNAC CD department in Strasbourg the other day. This "100 Most Beautiful Compilation" was all over the place. It's being promoted in a BIG way in the shops there. Otherwise, the overall selection of the JiP series was a bit scanty; the JiP racks did not have all that much (considering how many have been released) but after searching through the alphabet I came up with a few goodies anyhow: Bernard Peiffer/Bernard Zacharias "Jazz at St. Germain des Pres", the Sacha Distel Hors Series 2-CD set (great for the first part but I don't care too much about some of those late 60s sessions included), and then Henri Crolla (a REVELATION IMHO; in places it makes you think this is what Django Reinhardt might have sounded like later on if he had lived longer and progressed stylistically towards more modern sounds).

Reading this, I can tell you what to do. Clearly you've been listening to the wrong 30s (especially post-1935) jazz. :D There was PLENTY of hot jazz blowing all through the 30s and clear into the 40s. And you did not have to got to the Condon mob for that at all - the SWING cats sure had their act together, and the sparks really flew ..you just have to look beyond the pop material recorded by the big bands of the day. Or are you one of those who drool about any 20s Whiteman or Goldkette or Ted Lewis recording and give the ENTIRE record the highest rating just because of 12 bars by Bix or whoever? Just like good old Brian Rust did - any nondescript 20s band would rate high among collectors just because of "good hot solos". Good hot solos, yeah, maybe ,but the rest? Now where would you be if you applied the same yardstick to 30s and early 40s big band recordings? There'd be a LOT of great stuff and it wasn't any more or less "confined" than 20s solos buried in otherwise stiff "dance band" recordings. So please don't compare apples with oranges when you compare the different eras of jazz. No harm meant, but it just had to be said ...

Ha, picked up a SPARE copy of the original Jazztone issue LP of that one in very listenable condition for 1€ (ONE euro) at a record clearance sale last week. Who could have resisted at that kind of money?