Big Beat Steve

You talking about "Life Is A Many Splendored Gig"? At least FS bothered to reproduce the original artwork when others (except the Japanese and VSOP) mostly slapped silly updated/"modernized" covers on their vinyl reissues. OK, this may be far less important in the CD age but I admit that the Mosaic Select "corporate identity" artwork leaves me cold. I just happen to prefer other styles when it comes to packaging. That said, I could very well imagine some early Pomeroy reissues on the Uptown label. Might tie in nicely with their Serge Chaloff CD...

King Ubu, you know there ARE other labels (lots, in fact) that DO reissue FINE jazz music that is well compiled and thorougly annotated! In short, there IS a life in jazz reissues outside Mosaic!

Re- All Night Session, I must admit this was one of those cases where I bought the LP's after reading a favorable rewiew/recommendation (I just happened to come across the set of all 3 shortly after having read Ted Gioia's "West Coast Jazz"). Yes - I do like all three recordings, but on the other hand I never really compared them in greater detail with his other Contemporary albums of that time nor with the "Poll Winners" (and I like all of these too). Could it be that "All Night Session" is too accessible and too effortlessly swinging for some and therefore not demanding enough on their ears (so they automatically consider it too slick and not "stimulating" enough? ) Sometimes I feel people just rate and compare things to death; as if recording A necessarily has to outdo or top recording B, etc. Some items just aren't really comparable and ought to be listened to and enjoyed on their own terms.

Good you hear you escaped safely, but here's some sincere sympathy from another classic car lover and owner ... Hope you recover enough money to buy another tidy example. Good luck scouring Hemmings ...

Too bad ... It's news like this that make you realize how much time has passed since the 50s. Time to give his "Band In Boston" LP (and some others) a spin tonight ...

Yeah, and according to the tracklist posted further above the Fresh Sound double CD duplicates the IAJRC LP for the studio takes and a First Heard LP for the live cuts so both vinyl and CD addicts are served evenly this time. P.S. @Stereojack: Thanks for the info!

Well, it's the other one - "Teen Rock" - that I have. Any big-league jazzmen uncredited on that one? Speaking of "Fratenity Rush": I wonder if the tune "Creole" on that one is the same title that was also recorded by the George Williams Orchestra (on the "The Fox i Hi-FI" album on Brunswick) around the same time for the same target audience?

Another Thumbs Up for anyting recorded by the Boyd Raeburn band, especially the HEP reissues featuring his airshots and transcriptions plus the Savoy/Denon reissue! Other Raeburn material from various sources was reissued on the following LP's: "Hep Boyds" (Golden Era LP-15014) "1944-46" (First Time Records FTR-1515, maybe also pressed as OTY (Onward To Yesterday) 1515) "More 1944-45" (Circle CLP-113; these are Lang-Worth transacriptions, there were other reissues on Circle which I haven't heard) "Experiments in Big Band Jazz" (Musicraft MVS 505) Not too many duplications with the HEP vinyl reissues but I am not sure about the HEP CD's which probably include additional material not included on the HEP LP's. Any YES - the Earle Spencer band of the mid-40s is VERY MUCH worth a listen and certainly no joke. I have the material included on the Fresh Sound CD set mentioned above on two LP's issued years ago on IAJRC 41 and First Heard 16. Great stuff! In the same vein, I suggest anybody interested in bands like Raeburn's also check out the Tom Talbert Orchestra. Try to get hold of his "1946-1949" CD on Sea Breeze SB-2069. Amazing! Finally, a word of caution about those who explore Boyd Raeburn for the first time. In the mid-50s he did a few oddities for the Columbia label that were .... well ... just odd: A big band finding itself out of its traditional audience trying to cash in on the teen market instead. Their LP's carried titles like "Teen Rock" and "Fraternity Rush". Need I say more? "Teen Rock" is wort the price of admission for its great period-like cover photo; the music is OK though tame by jazz AND R'n'R standards. Picture it as big bands trying the impossible; making big band music palatable both to mid-50s adults and to youngsters raised on rock'n'roll. (Alan Freed did a far more convincing job with his star-studded bands at tha time) At any rate, it's not really comparable with the progressive 40s Raeburn sound.

There are 30 songs on this CD, and those two are not among them. The two tracks that MG mentions are on Big John Greer's reissue LP "R&B in New York" (Official 6026). This thread made me pull out that LP once more. It's been a long while since I last listened to it; small wonder after having listened more closely now: This LP includes 16 of his RCA tracks from late 1951 to 1955, and though Greer did a few goodies (such as "You Played On My Piano" with the abovementioned Dolores Brown) he obviously was often aiming quite clearly at the pop end of R&B. The A&R men at Victor apparently wanted him to be another Ivory Joe Hunter. According to the discographies, the percentage of title tracks of his earlier (ca. 1949-51) recordings that sound a bit more gutsy seems to be higher so let's hope this 30-tracks CD emphasises his uptempo material a bit more. At any rate, there is little reason for those who like their R&B with a beat to bemoan the fact that his "collected works" on Bear Family have gone OOP. Many of his 4-track sessions aparently yielded about one uptempo tune per every 3 pop ballads. Ho hum ...

My judgement with regard to the quality of Waller's sidemen was primarily focused on Herman Autrey and Gene Sedric. I think nobody would deny that these two were not on par with the top soloists of the time on their respective instruments; think of Bill Coleman (who actually recorded with Fats), Henry 'Red' Allen, Rex Stewart, Jonah Jones, Roy Eldridge, Cootie Williams or Chu Berry, Ben Webster, Coleman Hawkins. Insofar Autrey and Sedric were IMHO not first rate. What I did concede is, that they served their purpose very well. I also totally agree with you on your opinion about Al Casey; he was indeed an outstanding guitarist (if you read my first post carefully you see that I did not call him second rate). "Second rate" on that level is already a pretty high level by 30s/early 40s swing standards. I really wouldn't rate Gene Sedric that low anyway. Even if he wasn't "first rate" in the sense of the TOPMOST jazzmen on their instrument (andit might be argued anyway if Jonah Jones and Bill Coleman really were consistently on a level with the other top trumpeters you mentioned ), "second rate" is really too derogatory a term. If your criteria were applied uniformly to musicians of that time the small-band swing output by musicians such as Pete Brown, Skeets Tolbert or the Savoy Sultans et al. (not to mention Boots & His Buddies) would not have had any right to exist. As has been pointed out by others - and this cannot be stressed too highly - it is really the group as an entity that is the key to the quality of the music. The total equaled much more than the sum of the individuals. They did serve their purpose of providing unpretentious, immensely swinging, entertaining yet timeless jazz music. Maybe you ought to look at Fats Waller's Rhythm as a band that slightly predated bands like Louis Jordan's Tympany Five - a band that IMHO falls into the same category, and the parallels (including the sideman credentials) are obvious in many respects. Another point to consider: The music they recorded was supposed to be consumed two pieces at a time, i.e. both sides of a 78 rpm disc, and not in one go by listening to complete box sets of the entire recorded opus non-stop. When listened to more in a piecemeal fashion they might come across quite differently. Overexposure can blur the impact too, you know (unless you are a diehard fan). Guess it's time to pull out one of my RCA Memorial box sets tonight again ...

So I suppose you already included that Dec. 1954 session with Miles Davis where they had that legendary fallout, with Miles telling Monk to "lay it out" during Miles' solos?

Too bad R&B reissues like this almost always end up with a fair share of duplication. Will have to check out my Greer vinyl etc. to see what's actually going to be new.

JAZZ EN BARCELONA 1920-65 (Fresh Sound) Great listening each time, showing a largely unknown facet of the history of jazz. Will have to get the book by the same title one of these days ...

This whole thing about getting more kicks out of hunting and tracking down a rare or desirable object for your collection than of actually owning it, isn't this true for ANY sort of collection? I've had the same feelings described by all of you above quite often during my vinyl and CD buying too but I've also experienced them in exactly the same manner with my other collecting hobbies. And others told me the same thing about their hobbies. Of course it is frustrating if all your hunting comes to nothing even after years of searching but as long as you stand a fair chance of eventually finding what you are looking for, hunting and searching aare at least half of the fun (probably more), even if it only means checking out eBay ever so often nowadays.

I may still have the 1989 year of the German JAZZ PODIUM mag. These are stowed away in a box of fleamarket items but I will check things out tonight and see if I can find mention of his tour, including maybe his backing musicians.

Thanks for the info, but uh oh ... there we go again .... endless series of duplicates ... (I have ALL of Hamp's Deccas - there were two excellent LP series on both German and French MCA years ago, and I don't believe in changing music just for the format, especially if it would mean dumping my good old vinyl ). No separate V-Disc Hampton collections anywhere, I guess, then? Not even something that may be OOP but can still be traced somewhere somehow? Or would I have to look for a cheapo box set that has it all but would leave me far less broke than a Chronological Classic full-price series?

Sorry, somehow I had gotten the impression that this was a question of a definitive ranking - not specifically with you in the first place, though, but I have come across commentaries every now and then that sound like there ought to reman a strict dividing line between 40s/50s jazz and R&B. In this particular case, I agree that the 117th version of Hey Ba Ba Rebop or Hamp's Boogie Woogie etc. can get a bit tiresome but I feel both Hamp's RCA and Decca (and subsequent) recordings can be enjoyed alike on their very own terms, I think. BTW, for those in the know: What would be the most accessible comprehensive reissue of Hamp's 40s V-Discs?

On the R&B side, if anyone is interested in Louis Jordan, Bear Family did a fine job of reissuing all of his Decca recordings. If you mention Louis Jordan in connection with R&B, this is just the uppermost tip of the iceberg. Just check out the reissues on the Blue Moon and Classics Blues & Rhythm CD series and you'll be FLOORED with what's available (and there's a lot more beyond that). BTW, re- Hampton and R&B, what's wrong with linking Hamp with R&B? 40s and early to mid-50s black jazz and R&B go VERY well together anyhow, no need to sneer at R&B at all. There even was lots of crossover between Bebop and R&B (cf. Leo Parker to name just one single name). And Hamp had no match in bringing musicianship AND showmanship AND sheer excitement together into an explosive mixture. I think the times when his 50s European tours were lambasted by jazz purists as being too "rock'n'roll" (Ooooooh! What feeelth! ) are over once and for all. However, to get the whole picture you'd not only need his Decca sides of that period but also certain airshots, transcriptions and V-Discs (e.g. Screamin' Boogie).

If you like it as pop without any jazz pretenses that's fine (after all there even are jazz fans who like what is termed "exotica" in certain musical subcultures ) but AFAIC as there have been so many great post-1945 jazz big bands out there those pop orchestras just don't do it for me and are a letdown and/or an outright drag each time, especially if string sections are involved. Anyway, no two tastes are alike ...

Too bad, then, these were buried in that orchestrated Paul Weston et al. crap. Sorry, and I realize might get stoned for saying this on big band forums but it still baffles me how diehard jazz fans (that I assume to be around here) can get so excited about this dreary, unswinging pop orchestra fare. Having listened to quite a few of those Mercer 78s in recent times (as mentioned elsewhere, they were included in a batch bought from an estate), I find that even by the standards of the somewhat more commercial SWING (as opposed to sweet) big bands this music is just nowhere swing and jazz-wise. You really have to make a LOT of concessions style-wise to file them under "jazzy" or "jazzed-up" music. Hey, there even are Jan Garber records out there that can outswing this Mercer/Weston stuff!

Jazz Kat, may I respectfully suggest this thread for further reading? http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread.php?t=22983

Sounds promising indeed. Ordered my copy today and will keep my Dream Band records handy when the mailman delivers the goods!

Indeed! I like both Hampton periods - the Victor sessions for their all-star virtuosity, and the Decca recordings for sheer exuberance, vitality and powerhouse energy. Though admittedly they touch different parts of your musical innards , to me both swing to the very same extent, both in their very own way. BTW - J.A.W., check out the jazz photo book by Ed van der Elsken published by Nieswand a couple of years ago (I think the original this book is based on is rare as hens' teeth). It has lots of pictures from Hamp's mid-50s tour in the Netherlands. Hamp's powerhouse music literally jumps out of the pictures!

Yeah, I'm so old I bought it new. Liners by Stanley Dance. I wonder if he held the record for the most liner notes written by one critic? They're good liners, but I'd bet the Mosaic will be at least as good, possibly better. It would be cool to reprint them, but that's not Mosaic's style. Oops ... am I THAT old too? Bought my two 3-LP sets on French RCA new too, and still like them immensely. Agree about everything else said about this set here and cannot see why this set should NOT be snapped up REAL FAST if it became available at the giveaway price like Clem's copy. Where's all you discerning collectors? Given up collecting vinyl for good?

J.A.W., strictly speaking you are right, though these periods were consecutive rather than different, but I take it from tranemonk's question that some associate even older Lionel Hampton recordings with his big band (hence, his Decca band). So a glance at the original label (as stated in some reissue listing, for example) might help for quick reference. But that's a minor point anyway ...