Big Beat Steve

No topics are closed here if I understand things correctly. They either run on or they peter out (and/or sometimes are revived years or decades later - if someone else picks up on the subject). BTW, I seem to remember these WCJ anthologies have been discussed here before? So now there's one more topic to choose from for anyone who is into WCJ (incidentally I consider myself one of these too ). Re- edited tracks (as mentioned by Mikeweil), I think James Harrod has provided some details on his blog.

I doubt it. All of this music has been around the (reissue) block so many times that those seriously interested in it will have all or almost all of it (and can get the rest without any undue problems). Besides, it's not hard bop. Which will certainly limit its sales potential in the minds of many jazz reissue marketers. And anyway ... the PJ compilation albums from this series run contrary to most Mosaic programing and packaging policies. What would Mosaic see in a collection of incomplete sessions, individual takes and tunes, alternates, some (elsewhere) unissueds and some leftovers? The albums made sense in their day and within the original framework (and still do to those who like experiencing the music in this "period" way) but I cannot see they would line up with too many Mosaic programming ideals.

Understandable and reasonable - and better that way. I remember the days here when certain discussions touching on the political again and again turned into flame wars. Some subforums had become rather unreadable because of that. Not least of all when one certain forumist was involved whose forum nick recalled a certain late 30s trumpeter-alcoholic. (Though for the very same reason as you I would not put my money in this auction, even if I were interested in any items at all)

I understand your wariness about print-on-demand books. Several of those I've bought at Amazon in recent years have turned out to be print-on-demand books too, but I really cannot complain about their printing and (paperback) binding quality. And I have a hunch that some of these "niche" books would not even have appeared (let alone remain in print for any length of time) if the print-on-demand method had not existed. My purchases that turned out to be print-on-demand (all bought fairly soon after the books appeared) with tell-tale info on the final page include: "Soul Jazz" by Bob Porter (Xlibris, Lexington, KY), "Jazz With a Beat" by Tad Richards and "In WIth The In Crowd" by Mike Smith (both Ingram Content Group, Milton Keynes, UK). But the quality of the books really is OK to me. I wonder what the recently-preordered paperback version of the Don Byas bio will turn out to be. 😉

Thanks Niko. I should have thought of that label listing at the end of this book ... The asterisik by the HOLIDAY entry means it is one of the labels "stil current at the time of compilation". But I have doubts about it too. The Billboard text of 25/09/48 that you quote mentions a release by Charlie Ventura. The label of this is shown here: https://www.discogs.com/de/release/7116579-Charles-Ventura-George-Walter-Gene-Krupa-Body-And-Soul https://www.discogs.com/de/label/999868-Holiday-Record-Co Evidently the same label as the one by the Rhythm Rangers that you listed, except that the color of the label is different. So this indeed seems to be a different label (with a "straight" Holiday script) . Not the one with the "bizarre" Holiday script that is on the "Jackie" Byard 78. So the race still is on.

Preorder price 27.99 EUR on amazon.de. An option for you, even if you are not in Germany?

I have that book and can check closer. So just to speed up my "research": Did you see which page this label is mentioned in the Jazzfinder 49 book?

The "boston Jazz Chronicles" book by Richard Vacca has the below about the early career of Jaki Byard. Maybe the involvement with these bands might give a hint as to the idenitity of the other band members on that 78?

Really amazing ...

So they converse (i.e. are interviewed) about how each of them writes about jazz (and approaches the task of writing about jazz)? Anyway, that does sound interesting. And I'm tempted. Though who knows ... a book like this with the "panel" also comprising a representative or two of well-experienced READERS of jazz (i.e. their PUBLIC) might perhaps have added some spice to the subject ... To open up perspectives ... (One noted jazz book reviewer from around here - the now-retired former head of the Darmstadt Jazz Institute - would have come to mind as a worthy candidate) At any rate, one overriding criterion for anyone writing about jazz (e.g. after having read these interviews) is as simple as this: "Get your facts right!!" 😉 BTW, where's that "free international shipping" info? I did not see anything to that effect on the book website.

Having just read the description on the linked website, did I get this right? Put simply, this book is about writers writing about their writing (and possibly that of other writers) about jazz? Hmmm ... Aside from the fact that on the face of certain indicators I might have to consider myself a "seasoned jazz nerd" (with a penchant for reading about jazz too), and therefore possibly part of the target audience of this book, I wonder : Is it through writing about jazz or rather through listening to jazz (that is or is not written about) that "jazz takes hold of its listeners and never lets them go" ? 😉

And then he went sitting on some island along with JFK and (a bit later) Elvis, musing about the ways of the world?? Surreal!

Excellent news! Hats off to you (and the author) That's the kind of approach I was hoping for in a book like this.

Am not so sure. Amazon here has a paperback version on offer for a tad above 30 EUR guaranteed pre-order price (which I trust they will live up to). Seems reasonable to me. No offense meant, really ... I just was sort of taken aback when I read the "blurb" in the opening post. Unknown? An enigma? (Maybe more of a maverick?) These lines created an impression that is so different from the way Don Byas likely was perceived (or must have been ...) by EUROPEAN jazz listeners and fans passably in the know. "Reception" of an artist and his work can be quite different, depending on where you are coming from, isn't it? When the book arrives, I'll no doubt pull out that LP with his 1945 version of "Laura" (mentioned in the "blurb") that is on an LP I had bought in my very early collecting days and gave it countless spins in the time after. Wonder if it'll create the same listening impact now (after having bought and listened to numerous other Byas records) that it did then.

No problem at all, of course Rovira is no major name in a DON BYAS bio. He is just a "marker" of coverage of Byas' stay in Spain. To tell the truth, the reason for my questions was just to get an inkling of an idea of the degree of depth of coverage of his European days from the early years onwards. His impact must have been particularly strong in (approx.) the first half of his life in Europe when European jazz was still "finding its way" and support and input from "name" jazzmen were absorbed particularly intensely. In the end it depends on how his life and work in Europe are presented. Coverage of his post-1946 career as seen through a European's (jazzman or jazz listener) eyes at least to me would be what is primarily called for in such a biography (and of course would require exploration of numerous non-English-language source materials. Not that this should present a major obstacle to savvy researchers in today's world 😉) OTOH an excessively US-centric treatment might run the risk of ending up in a "U.S. outsider looking in" stance. So I'll be looking forward to this book. 😉 Just pre-ordered the paperback edition on Amazon.

Luis Rovira on one single page is fair enough coverage for Don Byas' involvement with that band in 1947. Anyway .. not wanting to pick nits at all , but these were indeed jazz (or jazzish) recordings (within the admittedly still a bit limited framework of what European jazzmen were able to put on wax in post-1945 Europe, but seminal recordings for the recovering post-1945 scene in Barcelona). The presence of Don Byas (and other "defectors" from the Don Redman band who chose to stay over here) on the post-war European jazz scene was a boon and impetus for many young European jazzers, and no mean achievement of Don Byas. And the Barcelona days were part of the beginning of why he was held in such esteem in Europe. As for the Estrellas, I'll throw a couple of names at you, then: Josep Puertas, George Johnson (another expat!!) , Josep Ballester, Antonio Bardají "Chispa" (both Ballester and "Chispa" seem to have been jazzmen of almost mythical proportions on the jazz scene in the Catalunya region of Spain during that period). https://www.discogs.com/de/master/919653-Don-Byas-1947-Those-Barcelona-Days Just sayin'

Not asking for a sneak preview, Ken, but to what extent do the "Estrellas de Ritmo y Melodía" as well as Bernard Hilda and Luis Rovira figure in the index?

That would indeed be surprising. BTW, at a clearout sale at a local record store last fall a copy of BOTH releases (Jazz Guild and Nostalgia) were in the bins at 1 EUR each. I did not pick them up (already have the Jazz Guild LP, though paid much more at the time) as I figured (probably rightly, sorry to say) that demand would be so slim that there would not have been much sense adding them to my fleamarket jazz vinyl crate. IIRC I compared the liner notes and they were the same on both.

I seem to remember this article was linked and then discussed controversially here last year ... (?) EDIT: Found it now:

Graeme Bell was another one who was torn to shreds in the reviews (in this case by Nat Hentoff in a review of his LP on the Angel label in a 1955 Down Beat - one star ...). "Offered to us in small pieces" - you mean, that collection finds its way into the crates of "your" shop only slowly and in small lots? Happens here sometimes too. I recently picked two records from the Sale bins here that - judging by handwritten numbering stickers on the back covers - came from a collection that I had already bought records from about 10 years ago (and off and on in the intervening years) in the same shop.

BTW, Niko ...Thanks for the link to the VJM website. Quite interesting - bookmarked now ...

O.T., but ... You made me curious, Niko ... If I find that record for 1 EUR I might well pick it up too (the French BYG pressing should be around somewhere ...). 😄 Some of the musicians mentioned were no slouches in their time so I'm wondering .... I have a corner reserved for washboard/jug/hokum bands in the blues/R&B section of my vinyls but nothing by him. At first or second hearing, most of these bands are an acquired taste and you need to be in the right mood to appreciate them (and the limitations of 20s or early 30s recording technology did not always help either). But they did serve a market that most definitely was not that of "art jazz". https://www.discogs.com/de/artist/313185-Jimmy-OBryant?superFilter=Releases&subFilter=Compilations Not wanting to blame Dan Morgenstern unduly, but that review reeks of a deeper antipathy against what at one time was termed "hokum". Which is all very well but the review maybe should have been left to someone more sympathetic with the broader style within which fell that record, and then judge it from there for faults and flaws WITHIN the broader idiom and not from an antipathy per se. BTW, Morgenstern guessed wrong about Jimmy O'Bryant's biography (a much-recorded but indeed shady figure). Quote from John Chilton's "Who's Who of Jazz": "I am indebted to Walter C. Allen for supplying me with information culled from the Chicago Defender dated 30th June 1928. The paper reports that O'Bryant died in the County Hospital., Chicago." For a somewhat different perspective on him, see the comments by Allen Lowe (no less too ) from the liner book of his "Really The Blues?" CD anthology, Vol. 1 re- Lovie Austin's recording of "Steppin' on the Blues" feat. Tommy Ladnier and Jimmy O'Bryant (1924): "... clarinetist O'Bryant (was) something of a biographical mystery but a fierce advocate for just about anything he played. The blues was THE format for his primitive but passionately improvised squalls which gives these recordings an oddly nationalist (naturalist?) tint. This is the early jazz-blues, no longer content to just shuffle along." See what I mean?

Thanks for your feedback on "At the Vanguard of Vinyl - A Cultural History of the Long-Playing Record in Jazz". After having read more attentively the contents of my home-made 1955 Down Beat Record Reviews (see above ) I've noticed that the reviewers (mostly Nat Hentoff) during that pivotal year of 1955 (when the move from 10" to 12" occurred) often complained that not all that few artists just weren't ready yet to sustain a 12"-length of recordings of ongoing INTEREST. And often the insight (on the part of the artists and/or producers/labels) to limit things to a 10" LP for the time being was considered desirable. I wonder if the book reflects on such details of the "reception" of vinyl in the marketplace. And this would be just ONE aspect of many ... BTW, what kind of "jargon" do you think might be considered offputting?

A shot in the dark ... but as for websites to start with, how about checking out the websites linked on this site? http://www.harlem-fuss.com/links.html I haven't checked all of them (not nearly) but those I have seen of course aren't dedicated exclusively to classic or oldtime jazz but many give fair coverage of artists from that period. E.g. jazzArcheology.com or www.thereisjazzbeforetrane.blogspot.com (I think our forumist EKE BBB is behind this - and the name of this blog is an oh so true statement in itself that needs to be driven home to many, many present-day jazz listeners for sure - not on this forum but very much so in general out there ...)

As for "past 1939", you mean more or less recent TEXT sources that deal with the REVIVAL jazz era of what stylistically is termed "oldtime jazz" or "classic jazz"? I.e. in the case of the USA, covering the 40s and 50s in particular, and whatever classic jazz revival remained later (Bob Wilber, e.g.)? And I gues many would want to distinguish between the old heroes carrying on for as long as they lived (Edmond Hall, De Paris brothers etc., Eddie Condon too) and the next generation (Turk Murphy, Bob Scobey, Pete Fountain and whoever else). And not to be mixed up with the entire (European) "Trad jazz" scene that we had discussed in an earlier thread. There ARE sources on the Revival side of jazz after 1940-45, but they are scattered and hard to summarize in an efficient way. I am not familiar with too many books or sites on that subject but whatever I thought of right now raises more questions than it has answers on "what else" there also should be.