Face of the Bass

Eicher does NOT twist great players' arms so that they record music they do NOT want to record. I spoke to Abercrombie about this very subject about a month ago. He lives in my neck of the woods, and I run into him occasionally. Get over the ECM bashing already. It is old and extremely close-minded. Close minded? Listen to the difference between Marilyn Crispell on ECM versus Marilyn Crispell on other labels and for other projects. It's staggering. Do you honestly believe that an artist of Crispell's stature is in someway manipulated to produce work she'd rather not so it can be released on ECM? I hope not ,because that shows very little respect indeed for an artist which your other statements suggest you admire. Maybe she wants to record in the style she does for ECM? is that a possibility beyond your view? I, for one appreciate her recordings for ECM and other labels. As for the Parker/Mitchell - I've struggled to really enjoy the Mitchell (which has a line-up that i could take to a desert island) only because i find the first piece really doesn't stimulate me and puts a 'drag' on the rest of the album (I'm sure this is discussed on another thread elswhere). Maybe i should start at track two. The Parker I haven't done justice to, listened a couple of times and shelved it which suggests it didn't grab me straight off. I've noted the comments that it's a recording that reveals itself over several listens so will use this thread as aspur to revisit. Anyone got an antidote for Eicher's poison? It'd save me a lot of money..... I don't think Crispell is being manipulated. I just think her work becomes A LOT less interesting on ECM, and I happen to notice that the work of many artists becomes less interesting once they reach ECM. Isn't this the label that basically keeps trying to recreate the ambience of In A Silent Way? It gets old after awhile. I've heard a lot of "strange" statements in my life, but this one is truly bizarre...? As already mentioned in this thread and of course everywhere else, ECM's contribution to contemporary Jazz aesthetic, the development of the Jazz Art Form, the individual admancement of hundreds of Jazz Artists and many, many other virtues attributed to ECM and its owner are beyond discussion. I have witnessed the birth of the label from day one, followed it closely for over 40 years now, both on a personal and professional level and I must say that although many independent Jazz labels are crucially important, none of them comes close to ECM on any level. Of course I can understand that some American Jazz fans have trouble admitting that a non-American Jazz activity could overshadow everything done by American Jazz, but hey, that is a fact.... This is really unintentionally funny to me. I have almost no interest in "American jazz" today, just as I have almost no interest in most of the music being put out by ECM. If you asked me to name the most vital jazz labels of the last 40 years, I'd put FMP number one, easily, and then after them probably Black Saint/Soul Note and Leo. Notice that NONE of those are American labels. So your lazy assumptions are completely off base. Also to everyone who keeps repeating my use of the word "poison," please note that in my original post I noted that I was engaging in rhetorical excess. Obviously ECM does not "poison" everything. I like some of their recordings, even. But if I see that a player like Evan Parker or Roscoe Mitchell is on ECM, I become wary. And that's through experience with too many polished works that represent, for me, the musical embodiment of the worst excesses of the Baby Boomer narcissism that is the New Age movement. It's just all so very, very bourgeois.

Eicher does NOT twist great players' arms so that they record music they do NOT want to record. I spoke to Abercrombie about this very subject about a month ago. He lives in my neck of the woods, and I run into him occasionally. Get over the ECM bashing already. It is old and extremely close-minded. Good to know that we have received THE WORD. Once you rise above the need to place labels on music, you'll realize that no other record label out there has lasted as long as ECM has on the international stage with as much success. And remember, great players do not always record great albums. Eicher does NOT twist great players' arms so that they record music they do NOT want to record. I spoke to Abercrombie about this very subject about a month ago. He lives in my neck of the woods, and I run into him occasionally. Get over the ECM bashing already. It is old and extremely close-minded. Close minded? Listen to the difference between Marilyn Crispell on ECM versus Marilyn Crispell on other labels and for other projects. It's staggering. Is that really the best that you can do? No, where do you get the idea that this is the best I can do? Do all your posts reflect your best effort, all the time? I'm not writing a doctoral thesis here. I just increasingly see ECM as a great missed opportunity. Here you have this label that has great presence, great distribution, and great musicians recording for it, but the aesthetic remains stuck in neutral and has been for some time. There are some great albums that come along on ECM now and again. But, IMO, the label could do much better, and it could start by not trying to give every recording the same polished sheen, with the same moody, existentialist image on the cover. They cover the Nordic jazz scene quite well, but sometimes it seems like they are trying to extend that aesthetic to all the music they document. As for Crispell, having been very familiar with her ECM output of the last decade or so, I was really struck the other week to hear her in a different context, playing for the Joelle Leandre Project. She played with much more fire and with a much greater sense of risk-taking, more like the work she did in the 1980s with Braxton and on Leo.

Eicher does NOT twist great players' arms so that they record music they do NOT want to record. I spoke to Abercrombie about this very subject about a month ago. He lives in my neck of the woods, and I run into him occasionally. Get over the ECM bashing already. It is old and extremely close-minded. Close minded? Listen to the difference between Marilyn Crispell on ECM versus Marilyn Crispell on other labels and for other projects. It's staggering.

ECM poisons everything it touches. Okay, that's not quite true but they do have a habit of making great players sound a little bit boring sometimes.

Last bump on the Charlie Parker Mosaic and the Cecil Taylor Codanza. These will be going to EBay if nobody bites on them in the next couple days. Thanks for looking.

Hey everybody-- I'm looking for a copy of the OOP Lou Donaldson Mosaic set. Will pay a fair price or offer fair value in trade. Please PM me if you are interested. Thanks!

Another update...I have also reduced the cost on the Cecil Taylor set by $10.

Bump...Price reduction on the Chu Berry and the Benedetti Parker boxes.

Just thought I'd post this here. I traded this away a couple of years ago and shouldn't have. I've got a couple Mosaic box sets to offer (Chu Berry, Parker Benedetti) as well as the Cecil Taylor set on Codanza if anyone wants to make a trade, although it is somewhat difficult for me to imagine a Cecil Taylor for John Patton swap. Anyway, I'm not in any rush, but if anyone has one they'd be willing to offer, please send me a PM. Thanks!

Your descriptions are fine. I'd like to thank you for bringing these sets here before taking them to EBay, and at very reasonable prices. It's a sign of community building here at Organissimo.

PMs sent on Turrentine Mosaic and Monk Riverside Horace Parlan.

I'm offering the box set 2 Ts For A Lovely T if you want to feed the monster some more.

Hackett is gone. Ellington is still available. Remember that the prices listed include shipping to the U.S., so it's a substantial savings compared to Mosaic. And all the remaining sets are in like new condition. Thanks!

UP: Added seven box sets, including six Mosaics.

Yeah, I don't much care for the stripped-down presentation of this series. Of the ones I've gotten I do like the Steve Lacy very much, as I did not previously have that music. The other one I would have liked would have been the Bill Dixon, but I already have all but one of those discs so I'm not going to buy that set.

For anybody interested in the more "experimental" side of things, some of the Erstwhiles he has available, particularly Lidingo and A View From The Window, are quite good and a steal at those prices.

Hopefully the oppressed masses of the Earth will now invade her new castle and carry all its occupants off to the guillotine. Class warfare is good.

Thanks....looks like the online discography I linked to is probably wrong. After listening to the discs, I can't discern any difference in the bass between the different tracks, and there are certainly no Paul Chambers idiosyncracies (such as bowed solos, etc.) on display.

I've found a discographical discrepancy that I was hoping somebody could solve for me. The liner notes for Jimmy Cleveland's 1957 recording on Emarcy say that the bassist for all seven tunes on the album is Eddie Jones. However, the online discography here, at www.jazzdisco.org, indicates that there are two bassists on the album. For the December 12, 1957 session, which includes three tunes on the album, the bassist listed is Paul Chambers. For the Dec. 13th session, the listed bassist is Eddie Jones. Anybody know which is right? Thanks in advance!

Ugh. We had our heater die on us at a very inopportune moment two years ago and it set us back a few thousand dollars. Took us a while to regain our footing after that. My sympathies.

I just finished Szwed's excellent biography of Miles Davis, which I would say is not quite as good as the Sun Ra biography but still one of the best I've ever read. I'm definitely going to check out the Lomax bio now, as I'm beginning to realize that Szwed is easily my favorite music historian/biographer working today.

Actually the box set I really want this Christmas is the Vandermark Resonance set, but I'm kind of doubting anyone gets me that.

I've already been informed that I'm getting the Coleman Hawkins set, which will be exciting when it comes out next month (hopefully). It's the first Mosaic I've really been excited about in a couple of years, at least.

Well, it would be wonderful if it happened. A year ago I toyed with the idea of starting to do research on a Paul Chambers biography, but other projects got in the way and it never took off. IMO, though, the European Free Improvisation scene of the last 40 years really needs an authoritative account in English. Heffley's Northern Sun, Southern Moon is interesting in parts, although I don't agree with much of his analysis and think the book is more an intellectual exercise than a proper history of the EFI movement. I agree with this. And of course writing a book on a deceased figure is a different kind of project than writing one on a musician who is still very much active and evolving.

Evan Parker Peter Brotzmann Paul Chambers