DrJ

You know spontooneous, I was just thinking the same thing about reissues of Moody's Chess/Argo material. I recently picked up the new Verve reissue of JAMES MOODY, which features one tune that was arranged (and beautifully I might add) by McIntosh as well as his fine trombone playing throughout. I'm a big fan of Moody's playing from around this period also although I haven't been able to hear all the Chess/Argo stuff (including the date you list, which sounds like a doozy). Perhaps a Mosaic compiling all of Moody's Chess/Argo dates would be a possibility, now that it seems they are beginning to mine those deep vaults with the Jazztet set.

Thanks for the comments about "the boy" - he was a year old yesterday! For years I did all my listening on a $400 all-in-one Kenwood system that sounded boomy, hollow, and dull. But I was happy as a lark, and all my early days of exploring jazz were all done with that vehicle. I'm sure I'd be quite happy to listen to jazz again on that system if that was all I had access to. But it is hard to go backwards, once you've heard how good recorded music can sound.

I hear what you're saying Chuck and largely agree. However, I get the impression though that most of the folks on this board who are complete audio nuts are also utter music nuts (with a few exceptions, and most of those seem to have largely slunk off without a trace). This is a double whammy condition otherwise known as totally %&*#@ing nuts! There's a special place in hell for all of us. In case you're wondering: it's a sonically treated room filled with pristine vinyl and perfectly recorded and mastered CDs, plus a beautiful, high end listening system. The catch is, it's so small that the media is stacked right up to the ceiling and, more importantly, up against the speakers - so you can't actually hear anything...

I pulled back from ordering a couple this very AM when I realized it was their usual sale time...will watch this space eagerly for news.

Sorry for re-posting this, but it's buried in the thread about the new Kenny Barron and Mulgrew Miller CDs, so I wanted to post about it here. This new release is a gem. I found this filed under "Kenny Barron" (not just in the bin, the computer tag) at Borders. Kenny Barron helped organize and lead the date with trombonist McIntosh, who is the actual leader (so you might also find it under his name), formerly of the Jazztet as many will know and contributor of some really classic tunes in the jazz pantheon ("The Cup Bearers" for example). Big thumbs up for this one so far, which features some fine playing by Benny Golson, James Moody, Barron, Roger Kellaway, Richard Davis, Stefon Harris, and McIntosh. It's on the IPO label, the same one that issued several fantastic Roland Hanna albums shortly before his death. It's a really well-done, honest session, a bit rough at the edges in some of the ensembles and with some fluffs left in, but very appealingly so. Everyone plays well. On initial impressions, I'm most taken with Golson's playing here. He uncorks a classic, classic solo on track 2, a great new tune McIntosh wrote for the date in tribute to Dizzy Gillespie (don't recall the track name). I hit the repeat button SEVERAL times when listening in the car on the way home from the store, a real great example of his "inside out" approach. What he's doing won't jar or sound "out" but when you get down to it, he's based his whole solo on extended harmonies - it isn't so far away from the type of thing Eric Dolphy did, but with a smoother sound and phrasing it's almost subversive rather than in your face. A beauty.

Yes Dan, that's the guy, you'll love this one. It's a really well-done, honest session, a bit rough at the edges in some of the ensembles and with some fluffs left in, but very appealingly so (I find most recent jazz recordings far too "sterile" and perfect and knowing your taste I think you'll feel the roughness adds rather than detracts). Benny Golson uncorks a classic, classic solo on track 2, a great new tune McIntosh wrote for the date in tribute to Dizzy Gillespie (don't recall the track name). I hit the repeat button SEVERAL times when listening in the car on the way home from the store, a real great example of his "inside out" approach. What he's doing won't jar or sound "out" but when you get down to it, he's based his whole solo on extended harmonies - it isn't so far away from the type of thing Eric Dolphy did, but with a smoother sound and phrasing it's almost subversive rather than in your face. A beauty.

I have to admit that in listening to the RVG I do appreciate COOKERS a lot more...the sound improvement over the old US CD is a big factor, given the importance of the club atmosphere. So you can get more of a sense of the palpable excitement. There are also a good many excellent moments - hey, you get a bunch of great improvisers to blow for 20+ minutes, they're going to come up with more than their fair share of "damn!" moments. So it's a valuable document and worth having to me, and its raised in my estimation now that I can hear and FEEL what was happening a little better. Still, I continue to feel its main value is as a document of that vibe and era, and for some good-spirited showboating by some musical masters, than as a "classic session" from a musical standpoint. For me, musically, after "Pensativa" which is grand-standy but reasonably restrained and light-hearted (plus a flat-out classic tune), it degenrates rapidly into almost self-parodic "hot playing." Many, many examples abound to illustrate what I'm saying, but perhaps none more telling than the castration of the tune "Breaking Point," eliminating the free elements that made it such an interesting piece in the first place for the sake of greater opportunities for undisciplined blowing. Jazz isn't and never was about chops alone. This is a good example for people who called Freddie Hubbard a callow technician (unfair, I think, based on the high quality of his other BN leader dates and appearances) to use as a case in point.

Sundog, those look like nice speakers...but VERY pricey. Obviously, trust your ears as the main test, but if you're looking at stuff in this price range, you ought to consider checking out Zingali speakers: Zingali Web site Not only are they physically gorgeous, but they sound fantastic and many of their best models are considerably less expensive than the Wilsons you're looking at. I paid about $5000 for a pair of Overture .2s (the newer version of these - Overture 2 - looks and sounds slightly different - smaller physical profile which may be good in a small room, but I slightly prefer the sound of the .2s for some reason) and I'm ecstatic so far. The soundstage imaging precision is unreal, and the mids and highs are the best and truest I've ever heard. Billie Holiday's vocals on her earliest Verve sessions (as remastered in the Verve boxed set), for example, sound otherworldy realistic. The low end is also very tight and non-muddy, but be aware that if you prefer a bottom-heavy sound, this may not be your speaker - I don't, preferring less boom and more precision since 90% of what I listen to is acoustic jazz, so they're perfect for me. The bass sounds REAL and musical to me, not pumped up, so the realism in reproduction of the double bass is fantastic. Rock sounds great on these speakers too, but again if you're a fan of the pumped up bottom end, you may not like the sound. Classical sounds unreal - transforms the whole listening experience to me and by far the closest to a good concert hall I've heard (comparable to the unamplified performances I've heard in the UC Davis Mondavi Center state of the art hall). As I mentioned above, I'm not a "specs" guy but I do note that the sensitivity of the Wilsons is not that great (less than 90dB) - which means if you want to run them with tube amplification, I'd be very careful checking out the sound in advance. In general, the speakers I listened to that sounded good with tubes had sensitivities of 90dB or higher. I probably am mangling the physics here, but my understanding is that this is required because most tube set ups (especially integrated systems like the AudioNote Meishu I have on the way) have pretty low outputs (8 W per channel) which freaks people used to solid state out initially but, trust me, is MORE than enough with a sensitive, tube-friendly speaker like the Zingali. I know impedence is also a factor, and the Wilsons actually have a lower (4 ohm) impedence than the Zingalis I have (6 ohm) so that may actually be in their favor for tube set ups. Again, I'm no electrical engineer or physicist - this is based on my listening, not on the specs alone. So trust your ears. If you're running solid state amps, as far as I know you don't lose anything by having a more sensitive speaker although that may not be true - others can chime in. Of the Zingali line, probably the .4s is "the king" sonically - unbelievably good, with more beef at the lower end than the .2s - but they were just too darn physically big for my listening room and I found floorstanders caused rumble in there despite best efforts at placement. I think they also run about $8000/pr, so more pricey. I didn't like the .3s - smaller bass cone than used in the .2s and .4s meant that these WERE too light at the bottom end.

I agree, to each their own. I never expected to spend what I spent on my recent listening set-up, but the more I listened the more I felt the music deserved that type of presentation. It's not automatically "the more expensive the equipment, the better" for sure, but I will say that when you find the sound that appeals to you it's hard not to go for it if you have the means, and cost becomes secondary. It utterly, completely IS all about the music - when you can listen to a CD you've listened to a million times and suddenly feel you're actually hearing the music, that is worth the sound system investment to me. An example: VERY SAXY (Prestige). Four great tenors blowing up a storm, Ms. Shirely Scott at the organ. On my new system, you can IMMEDIATELY hear huge differences among the tenors - everything just sounds REAL. You can get a sense of their tonguing, when they are overblowing, hear subtle grace notes you never heard before, etc. Finally, they all sound utterly individual and you can start to pick out differences between players who sounded more similar, even generic, on a less musical system. These are all such critical elements of style that I can't really see the argument about "sound over music." Hearing these details IS hearing the actual music rather than a cheap facsimile. On my old system, all the tenors basically sounded very much the same in terms of the sound detail (even though you could of course hear phrasing differences). Plus, the organ sounds so vivid now - not like a roller rink or a rumble at the bottom end like it used to, but a complex, dynamic sound. You can also close your eyes and see where everyone is standing or sitting, since the soundstage and depth are accurately reproduced. Another great example: on a recording I have literally listened to hundreds of time, KIND OF BLUE, on some tracks when Coltrane plays in higher register and Cannon plays in lower register, the sounds of their instruments (timbre) sounded very much the same to me on my old system - although most of the time their phrasing and concept were so different you could still pick them out, at times it was surprisingly hard for me (maybe I'm just stupid, but I've always been crossed up at times on this record for some reason). On my new system, NO CHANCE of ever getting confused - damn, the alto sounds like an alto, and the tenor sounds like a tenor - both natural sounds I'm very familiar with from jamming at home with my dad - even when the playing registers start to overlap! The complexity of the horn's sounds, which gives them their uniqueness, is captured. It's remarkable, and for someone like me without any real good live jazz venues near enough to frequent with a one-year old, it's such a pleasure to get (wink wink Chuck) into the music this way! My system was pricey, but I think I could have assembled something close to this level (and made a vast improvement over what I had) for much less - once you get to a certain point, small differences cost a lot. At the risk of becoming a fanatic, you owe it to yourself to check out tube DACs and amps, a good CD transport, and some sensitive, tube friendly speakers (still waiting for my amp, being assembled as we speak - even with just the DAC and speakers and my old Denon amp I'm in heaven, but can't wait to hear what I heard in the dealer listening room with the same speakers and DAC plus the tube amp!). One last note: much of my happiness at a technical level, I don't claim to understand or care about. I can proudly say that in buying equipment, I've never looked at a bar graph or plot and said "that's what I want." Just listen. Having said that, I will say that I am starting to wonder if the craze for up and oversampling and other filtering processes in CD players hasn't taken everything several giant steps back. The tube DAC I have uses "1x oversampling" - in other words, the signal comes straight from the disc, without any up or oversampling. Even older CDs that I used to think sounded crappy on my old system sound spectacular on this set up.

Wow, that's a good price. I've never picked it up. All I can say is that I do like the Origin band he had then, based on studio recordings. I'll be watching this thread with interest to see the comments.

There's also another date that Borders had filed under Kenny Barron's name (it wasn't just misfiled in the bins, the computer tag had it listed for him so you may also find it there) called WITH MALICE TOWARD NONE: THE MUSIC OF TOM MCINTOSH. Barron helped organize and lead the date with trombonist McIntosh, who is the actual leader (so you might also find it under his name). Big thumbs up for this one so far, which features some fine playing by Benny Golson, James Moody, Barron, Roger Kellaway, Richard Davis, Stefon Harris, and McIntosh. It's on the IPO label, the same one that issued several fantastic Roland Hanna albums shortly before his death.

I've listened to the first couple tracks (VERY rapid shipping, great service) and it is pretty gorgeous and highly accomplished music. I do hear the Metheny likeness in the melodies although I'm sure it's more parallel development than any mutual influence. But this goes several steps further down the road than anything I've ever heard PM do in terms of thematic development and sophistication. These are ideas and themes that take many, many minutes to fully develop and unfold, and the sense of tension and release created as they do is nothing short of breathtaking. Thus, "quiet" music at times but I still find it visceral in its own way, if you're listening carefully. There are times when you start to think you'd like someone to let rip with a little more abandon, but I'm convinced that would undermine the whole enterprise. Not at all what this music is about. I can't wait to listen to the rest and to revisit what I've heard already.

Good list. FEELIN THE SPIRIT is definitely way overdue for a remaster, as is the Horace Silver. I will grab the others too although I have them in pretty good sounding formats already. Hey, JRVGs sound pretty good, but I got tired of shelling out the money for them a long time ago. Bring on the U.S. versions, which I generally have found sound superior anyway - plus I'm not a huge fan of mini-LP sleeves.

Well, I took the plunge. Only other Schneider I had previously was ALLEGRESSE, which is a beauty. First listenings left me a little cold, although there was no escaping the sophistication and brilliance of the composing - same reservations as Jim had about the players. But over time I've warmed to it.

Well personally I would agree about Shorter, but not Hill, and I'm a huge Hill fan. Hill's output for BN was fascinating and reached some true pinnacles but I find it to be far more inconsistent, with less full realization of his vision on certain of the (mostly later period) recordings, than either McLean's or Shorter's BN output. You know, brilliant ideas with merely good execution some times. One other piece of food for thought - McLean made a lot more recordings as a leader for BN than Shorter, so to me that's impressive too, that he was able to keep up the quality control over such a long time and over so many dates. The flip of that is Shorter was cranking out true genius writing and playing for Miles concurrently during his BN run - a really staggering feat - so it's not like he was exactly slacking!

Thanks for chiming in with those Lon, I knew there were some others. Yeah, I think you're right too - there is no way to know for sure, and it could take a while for RVGs to surface even if they ultimately do. So I'm sold!

Only Collette I have as a leader so far is a pretty rare vinyl-only (I think) recording from 1957 on Challenge called EVERYBODY'S BUDDY. I like this one a lot. In addition to Collette in great form, there's Howard Roberts on guitar and Gerry Wiggins on piano. This would make a nice Fresh Sound CD reissue (since it's unlikely anyone more "legit" is going to ever get around to reissuing it, certainlly in the U.S.). I'm looking forward to exploring more.

Well since I am still working my way essentially chronologically (by release date, unless something begins running low) through the Mosaics, I don't have ANY of those listed yet. Django is coming soon, right after the Kid Ory. However, of guitar material available on older OOP Mosaics, the Desmond/Hall would have to be my favorite. But then again I think those sessions are desert island material all around, with Jim Hall's playing just being one reason. Not music that changed the world, and not what you want to listen to when you want to be challenged or tweaked, but when you're in that state I call "heightened relaxation" there can be no better soundtrack.

Of COURSE not! And that's exactly why we make these posts. As Mr. Rogers might have said, "Can you say 'enablers' children? I knew you could! Thanks for the input guys, I will be taking the plunge. One other point - King Ubu mentioned that since THREE BLIND MICE was not an original BN, it probably wouldn't be RVG'd. I don't know that this is true. Remember all the following "non-original BNs" have been out in RVG formats in Japan and/or the US: Clifford Brown - JAZZ IMMORTAL (Pacific Jazz) Miles Davis - BIRTH OF THE COOL (Capitol) Doug Watkins - WATKINS AT LARGE (Japan only, originally on Transition) There are probably others I'm forgetting too.

Here Comes Louis Smith

The JRVG is a noticeable improvement over the old 80's US CD version I had (and probably you have), but not hugely so...I think this recording suffers from the dead-sound and overly reverbed syndrome that I find many of the late 60's BNs suffer from, which leads to a muddy presentation that with years of hindsight just seems so wrong for this otherwise beautiful, acoustic music. I have long suspected this was due to a combination of things, perhaps tape aging (seems I remember Lon or someone confirmed that the types of tapes RVG used changed and that they haven't aged as well) as well as period tastes (influenced by rock and roll). Anyway, it's also possible that the Japanese didn't have access to the original session tapes and made the JRVG from second or third generation copies. So maybe we can hold out hope that a future US RVG (should we ever see one), done from original tapes, would clear away the sonic muck!

I just purchased my second Rhino Handmade issue - Jack Nitzsche's THREE PIECE SUITE. Truly wonderful, wacked music from an eccentric pop genius. The stuff from his never released eponymous album alone is well worth the price of admission, but everything is worthy of many careful listens. The first was Jimmy Scott's FALLING IN LOVE IS WONDERFUL which is also, well, wonderful.

I have been eyeing both Vols 1 and 2 for some time, but holding off given that the remastering is now about 14 years old. Now I got an e-mail from BN saying that Vol 2 is going out of print. I passed on Ornette's BNs with Dewey Redman that went OOP recently with the strong feeling BN must be planning remastered versions soon. I suspect the same will probably happen with THREE BLIND MICE. But no way to be sure. What to do, what to do...anyone out there privvy to BN plans on these? And how's the sound quality on the THREE BLIND MICE CDs (I see Malcom Addey's name so probably it sounds as good as it could have for 1990)?

Well, it's not that I think NEWK'S TIME is one of RVG's best original recordings - I think that's what the limiting factors is, not so much the remastering. It is more panned/separated than most of his dates from that era. But musically, it's absolutely top flight, and the sonics are not distracting to me in the least (although I think on headphones it could be kind of obnoxious).

Man, oh man do I envy you getting to hear this one for the first time. Along with INDESTRUCTIBLE!, my favorite of Blakey's recordings, almost unbelievably intense at times without for one minute ever resorting to hammy over the top "we're so hot" playing. Cannot wait for the sonic upgrade. And IN 'N' OUT in there too, my favorite Joe Henderson BN! Plus DESTINATION...OUT! my favorite of Jackie's BNs (along with IT'S TIME!). A banner day, August 10 will be.