RainyDay

What Rachel said. This morning I heard more than a few financial talking heads on the news state categorically that her sale of the stock did not hurt the stock value or anyone who had invested. Which makes sense since she wasn't prosecuted for any of those things. Isn't Kenny Lay still out walking around a free man? Hanging out in his "we lost everything" penthouse? Didn't he manage to manipulate energy prices, manipulate the value of his company, steal from his employees, and tank their jobs? Enron's collapse apparently had a significant impact on Houston from a business and philanthropic perspective. A lot of people were hurt and more than a few had their lives damn near destroyed. I guess Lay hasn't lied about anything, though, or he would be in BIG trouble with the government because the feds really won't tolerate liars. Who suffered because Stewart lied? Nadie. I guess it isn't really the lie that's the problem, it's who's telling the lie. We live in interesting times when I am defending Martha Stewart here and Howard Stern on another thread, two people I really can't stand. They may give Stewart the chair just for being a witch with a "b". Everybody knows it's a capital offense to be a ball busting woman. A ball busting man is considered a role model.

Happy Birthday 'O'! Thanks for creating a nice place to hang. Haven't had a chance to read the thread yet, work beckons. Somebody save me a piece of cake (this should be my motto--"someone save me a piece of cake!").

I haven't been on this thread since my last post because I don't find DEEP interesting enough to keep up with his every move. Now that I'm here, I realize I'd rather not be. By the way, "Maybe the dingo ate your baby" is from an episode of Seinfeld. It's a funny line that riffs on "A Cry In the Night" that I thought would make an amusing signature until I saw that DEEP had made a mess at the Blue Note Board and I haven't been back there either. Really folks, life is too short.

The AEC was at Yoshi's last fall and I had the good fortune to see them, mostly due to Dennis Gonzalez who strongly urged me to go. It was my first time seeing the band, and the only time I will ever see Favors. The face paint had a particularly celebratory effect since it was the week of Halloween. Saw more folks that I knew in the audience than is usual. This was the must-see band to check out. The band sounded GREAT and the crowd was adoringly responsive. I remember kicking myself for not ever having taken the time to see them before. Malachi Favors stood out. His playing stood out. He looked frail but he played strong. Apparently he was quite ill at this time. What a trooper. What a bass player. RIP.

I like this record. I struggle with avant garde, free, etc, (even the proper "label" to put on it) because I often can't find the blues hook in it for me. Dennis' music is rooted in the blues and so his music always pulls me in. Not only is he a very fine musician, he's also a very nice human being.

--Lenny Bruce Oh, no! I hate guilty laughter.

Did Miles become gay on this thread? Not there is anything wrong with it.

I guess you lost me when you ventured into penis land. It suggests that real women can't dig Miles, which I suspect you don't really mean. But the other points are well taken. No apology necessary. I thought maybe you'd had too much coffee, or too much of something in the coffee.

I think it jumped the shark with the, (ahem), phallic analogy.

So much for "Location: not given"... Yeah, now that I know youse guys better I can say that I live in Oakland. I am extremely spoiled (and supremely grateful and lucky) when it comes to live jazz.

Zero. I'd rather go to Yoshi's (and eat sushi while I'm there).

I pay little attention to lables, etc and don't buy much music any more. I do have Nick at Night which is enjoyable. In the past couple of years, he has gone in a new direction since that record. I have seen him a couple of times, once at the SF Jazz Festival in Fall 2002, and last year at Yoshi's and he was cooking! He is playing more out, and it draws more from his New Orleans roots. It's a kind of raucous, kick butt kind of sound. I REALLY like it. I'm looking forward to seeing him again. When I saw him with Ray Brown back in 2001, I guess it was, he was very good but quite subdued compared to where he is now. I'd get something that he has done in the past 1-2 years. I have heard some of Dear Louis and liked it but he's done something since then that is quite good but I can't recall the title. I believe it reflects his new attitude. My 1.5 cents worth.

Jazzbo: Fascinating personal history. Thanks for sharing it.

I think your on the wrong track in trying to understand my words. I don't hear his demons and are then appaled by that. It doesn't go that deep. I simply don't like his tone. I was building up on RockC's remark that it was actually Trane who suggested Wayne and not Miles's choice alone as DrJ suggested. My idea was that maybe a lot of cool stuff is attributed to Miles and often Miles alone, whereas the actual picture is probably much more diverse. A sort of aggregation of action around the central hero. Like watching the Ken Burns documentary This has admittedly little to do with my initial post but much more with the responses in this thread. I don't think people here are uncritical hero-worshippers, far from it! It just occurred to me that there is a lot of stuff that's being attributed to Miles and I wonder whether it's all true, or rather a little spice to the story. It's an extension of the originator/facilitator discussion in this thread I suppose. I dug Miles when I was young and before I knew anything about him being an outlaw, or having a particular couture, or whatever. I dug him because he sounded good to me and to my less trained young ear at the time, he sounded like he was doing something entirely different. It was also what pulled me to Colrane. All that other stuff about both of them filtered into my consciousness years later. For someone who grew up listening to Pops, Al Hirt, Harry James, maybe a little Dizzy, etc, Miles represented something fresh and new. Plus, I discovered Miles on my own, not through my dad who was the major influence on my musical tastes when I was a little girl.

I hope Chris Farley is digging Miles from his trailer down by the river.

The only other thought I'd want to share is one that has been expressed by others and that is Miles' ability to put together the best talent for a given project. I don't think it is any accident that so many musicians that have been associated with him over the years went on to achieve greatness independent of Miles, because so many of them were extraordinary talents. Listening to Miles is not just listening to him playing the trumpet. It's the trumpet and everything else that's going on. And one other thing. Miles was not afraid to take risks with his work, which means he wasn't afraid to fail. I believe he was one of the most influential and gifted artists of the 20th Century.

I see what you mean. It's probably stupid to try to come up for metaphors for or to schematize artistic inspiration, but I've never let the stupidity of a project stop me before . . . I agree with you on the visceral response thing (at least to an extent), but From the perspective of thinking about music as an expression of this sort of life situation: Imagine that that a musical expression of that visceral reaction is pretty much readily available to you--it's on hand often, close to the surface of your consciousness. You don't need to get in contact with your feelings and translate them into music --to a large degree its there as music. The matter of expressing this then is a matter of contriving the music in such a way as it fits into the particular context in which you find yourself. If what you are creating/playing is an expression of who you are, how is that contrived? Maybe I'm misreading you but to me, music isn't "there." Someone has to pull it out of their head. It seems that when you pull something out of your head, it comes with a lot of your baggage attached to it. Martin Scorcese seems to be consumed about themes of damnation and redemption. It's in his movies and he talks about it a lot. It doesn't have a whiff of contrivance, for me anyway. If you are able to seprate out who you are from your art, that seems contrived to me. Or works for hire.

The thing about Miles was that he was a haunted human being with serious demons dogging him his whole life. What I hear in a lot of his music is his visceral reaction to the demons. That's what I've always heard. What I hear is such an honest expression and one that resonates loudly within me. His sound has never sounded contrived to me.

This, gentlemen, is a great thread. I love Miles but it is instructive to hear people talk about why they don't and why do like his work. I'd like to echo comments made by vibes, JSngry and JohnL. I am not a musician or musically trained (not really) and my biggest frustration is not having the musical vocabulary to express how I feel about music. So some of you did it for me. Thanks.

Good enough, Chris. I'm not particularly interested in rehashing merde from another board. I don't take any pleasure that you are no longer friends with the guy. 'Nuff said.

Jeez, I hope you don't think I was talking about you because I wasn't. I haven't followed DEEP's exploits here. I saw this thread and wondered what had happened THIS time. Turns out it's just the usual Then may I suggest that you actually read a few of the threads before coming up with those sweeping generalizations? Example: "How ironic that DEEP's chief apologists have washed their hands of him after he went after them personally." I certainly did defend DEEP's right to participate in this forum; however, I am no apologist for him. I even enjoyed some of his posts. I did wash my hands of him, but he never went after me personally. I saw him go after others with a vengeance. I saw the ugly side taking complete control. I was speaking specifically of Patricia and Chris. There, better, now? I've followed their undying undevotion to DEEP for a couple of years and it's interesting to see them wax righteously indignant about what an ass he is. I could have saved everyone a lot of time and trouble and told you: DEEP IS AN ASS. I have no intention of reading his stupid threads. I'm not that hard up for entertainment. O-fricking-kay?

Jeez, I hope you don't think I was talking about you because I wasn't. I haven't followed DEEP's exploits here. I saw this thread and wondered what had happened THIS time. Turns out it's just the usual

How ironic that DEEP's chief apologists have washed their hands of him after he went after them personally. Previously, when he was going after others (and I don't mean just me), it was considered entertaining and his targets were considered poor sports. I recall him savaging really nice people at JC (that wouldn't be me, obviously, since I fixed his wagon REAL good) and everyone just lapping it up like sour milk then getting just so indignant that the victims didn't have a better sense of humor. The tired excuse that he knew a lot about jazz, which justified putting up with his crap was outrageous. What goes around comes around.

Hmmm. In that context, they have a lot less yummy appeal.

Oh gawd, I just lost 5 measly pounds and those bloody cookies will go on sale in two weeks. I can eat a half a box of thin mints in an instant. They sell them outside the grocery stores on Saturday mornings, everywhere. I'm doomed. Sigh.