Larry Kart

Happy birthday, Nate. :party: And Bright Moments, I have to say that the photo you attach to every post you make remains astonishing every time I see it.

That's it. I demand that Randy be banned immediately! Done.

It's nice how Dr. Phil works "my meeting with," "leaves me convinced more than ever," "before my arrival," "I entered the room," "We visited," "I walked with her," and "I am very concerned for her" into those three sentences.

Britney Spears Hospitalized The world is my emergency ward.

Correction: It's Martin Boykan's "Elegy," not his "Echoes of Petrarch," that seems to me to be close to the level of "Pierrot Lunaire." Just listened to Boykan's String Quartet No. 2. Something is askew when a composer as good as this is so little known. Excerpts from "Elegy" can be heard here: http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?...style=classical

Peter, I definitely like some of the composers on your "branching out" list -- Berwald, Chausson, Lekeu, Stenhammar, have what I feel is a bit of a weak spot for Stanford (I think because I like Brahms so much), have a delightful disc of flute and piano music by Kuhlau, and the flavor of Field is unique, though I can't take much of it at a sitting. Heard some nice Svendson too. The others I don't care for or are just names to me -- and Holter and Kiel I've never heard of before. So it would seem we can talk. Another question, though, if I may: What's the most modern (not chronologically but by your own standard of what that term means stylistically) piece of music that you've viscerally liked or come to enjoy?

Here's my Berkshire modern American classical music CRI list, with some from New World too. Hard to believe that I found the time to listen to all this stuff, but I did: Spies, Claudio {b.1925}: 3 Songs on Poems by May Swenson; Animula Vagula, Blandula; 5 Sonnet-Settings {Christine Whittlesey, soprano et al.}; Impromptu for Piano; 'Viopiacem' Duo for Viola & Keyboard Instruments {Samuel Rhodes & Robert Miller}; 4 Dadivas; Bagatelle {Alan Feinberg, piano}; Beisammen {Matthew Sullivan & Brian Greene, oboes & English horns}; Insieme {Elizabeth McNutt, flute & Andrew May, violin}; Dylan Thomas' Lament and a Complementary Envoi. (Nathaniel Watson, baritone & Margaret Kampmeier, piano. Total time: 76'08') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 718 | BRO Code: 116940 | Label: CRI (An austere serialist but a real musician. Not unlike late Stravinsky in some respects -- Spies and Igor were friends.) Lomon, Ruth: Songs of Remembrance. (Jayne West, soprano. Pamela Dellal, mezzo. Frank Kelley, tenor. Donald Boothman, baritone. Laura Ahlbeck, oboe & English horn. Donald Berman, piano. Total time: 61'31') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 887 | BRO Code: 116874 | Label: CRI Cory, Eleanor {b.1943}: 'Visions' for 6 Players {St. Luke's Chamber Ensemble}; 'Of Mere Being' for Chorus & Brass Quintet {William Purvis [French horn] et al. w.NY Virtuoso Singers/ Rosenbaum}; 'Play Within a Play' for Piano; 'Interviews' for Viola & Piano {Louise Schulman & Margaret Kampmeier}; 'Bouquet' for 8 Players. (NY New Music Ensemble/ Milarsky. Total time: 65'54') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 885 | BRO Code: 116870 | Label: CRI Cooper, Paul {1926-1996}- 'Complete Music for Solo Piano': Cycles; 4 Intermezzi; Sonata; Frescoes; Sinfonia. (John Hendrickson) Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 776 | BRO Code: 116770 | Label: CRI Cooper, Paul {b.1926}: Verses for Violin & Viola; Canons d'Amour; String Quartets 5 & 6. (Shepherd Quartet) Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 687 | BRO Code: 116690 | Label: CRI Jones, Samuel {b.1935}: Let Us Now Praise Famous Men; Elegy. Paul Cooper {b.1926}, Symphony #4 {all w.Houston Symph./ Samuel Jones}; Violin Concerto #2. (Ronald Patterson w.Monte Carlo Phil./ Lawrence Foster. Total time: 69'44') Add to cart | Price: $ 5.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 579 | BRO Code: 116288 | Label: CRI Genre: Symphonies (Jones's symphony is crap; Cooper's Violin Concerto is an ecstatic gem.) Macbride, David: 3 Dances for String Quartet {Aurora Quartet}; 'Chartres' for Solo Piano. (Kathleen Supove. Total time: 60'57') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 640 | BRO Code: 116451 | Label: CRI Ogdon, Will {b.1921}: 3 Piano Pieces; 3 Baritone Songs; 2 Kechwa Songs; 3 Trifles for Cello & Piano; By the Isar; 6 Small Trios; 5 Preludes; Serenade #1 for Wind Quintet; 2 Capriccios for Piano; Variation Suite for Violin & Viola; 6 Small Trios. (Members of SONOR Ensemble with guest artists. Total time: 71'30') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 763 | BRO Code: 116769 | Label: CRI (Ogdon is a good bit like Spies.) Boykan, Martin: String Quartet #2 {Pro Arte Quartet}; City of Gold {Fenwick Smith, flute}; Piano Trio #2 {Cyrus Stevens [violin], Michael Curry [cello] & Donald Berman [piano]}; Echoes of Petrarch. (Auros Group for New Music) Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 841 | BRO Code: 116592 | Label: CRI Boykan, Martin: String Quartet #4 {Lydian Quartet}; Elegy {Jane Bryden, soprano w.The Brandeis Contemporary Chamber Players/ Hoose}; Epithalamion. (James Maddalena, baritone. Nancy Cirillo, violin. Virginia Crumb, harp. Total time: 62'22') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 786 | BRO Code: 116512 | Label: CRI Boykan, Martin {b.1931}: Sonata for Violin & Piano {w.Cyrus Stevens, violin}; 'A Packet for Susan' for Voice & Piano {w.Pamela Dellal, mezzo}; 'Flume' for Clarinet & Piano {w.Ian Greitser, clarinet} {all w.Donald Berman, piano}; String Quartet #1. (The Contemporary Quartet. Total time: 68'06') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 897 | BRO Code: 116456 | Label: CRI (Boykan is not unlike Andew Imbrie, if that helps. Muscular/gestural, often soulful -- sounds like he might have been a Sessions student, as Imbrie was, but I don't think so. Boykan's Echoes of Petrach is close to the level of Pierrot Lunaire.) Babbitt, Allegro Penseroso. Michael Finnissy, North American Spirituals. Jason Eckardt, Echoes' White Veil. Jeff Nichols, Chelsea Square. (Marilyn Nonken, piano) Add to cart | Price: $ 5.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 877 | BRO Code: 116573 | Label: CRI (Nonken can play her ass off! I know enough of Babbitt and Finnissy to be sure of that -- the Finnissy was written for her. Would like to hear more from the other two composers.) Anderson, Allen {b.1951}: String Quartet {Lydian Quartet}; Solfeggietti; Drawn from Life. (Aleck Karis, piano) Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 727 | BRO Code: 116540 | Label: CRI Del Tredici {b.1937}: I Hear an Army {Phyllis Bryn-Julson, soprano w.Composers Quartet}; Night Conjure-Verse {Benita Valente, soprano & Mary Burgess, mezzo w.Marlboro Festival Players/ composer}; Syzygy {Bryn-Julson w.Festival Chamber Orch./ Dufallo}; Scherzo for Piano 4-Hands. (Robert Helps & composer. Total time: 61'04') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 689 | BRO Code: 116438 | Label: CRI Del Tredici, Song Cycles: Miz Inez Sez {w.Hila Plitmann, soprano}; 3 Baritone Songs {w.Chris Pedro Trakas, baritone}; Brother {w.John Kelly, vocalist}. (All w.composer, piano. Total time: 74'40') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 878 | BRO Code: 116189 | Label: CRI (Early Del Tredici, first disc, late on the second. He's supposed to be the Return To Romanticism guy (e.g. "Final Alice"), but he's just amazingly nuts -- and covered all over with musicality.) Wyner, Yehudi {b.1929}: Memorial Music I & II for Soprano & 3 Flutes; 'Intermedio'- Lyric Ballet for Soprano & Strings {all w.Susan Davenny Wyner, soprano}; Serenade for 7 Instruments {Boston Symphony Chamber Players/ composer}; Concert Duo for Violin & Piano {Matthew Raimondi & composer}; 3 Short Fantasies {Robert Miller, piano}; Passage I. (Musical Elements Ensemble/ Daniel Asia. Total time: 74'24') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: BULGARIA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 701 | BRO Code: 116399 | Label: CRI Fine, Vivian {b.1913}: Concertante for Piano & Orch. {Reiko Honsho w.Japan Phil./ Watanabe}; Missa Brevis for 4 Celli and Taped Voice {w.Jan DeGaetani, mezzo}; Momenti for Piano Solo {Lionel Nowak}; Quartet for Brass {David Jolley, horn et al.}; Sinfonia & Fugato for Solo Piano {Robert Helps}; Alcestis. (Imperial Philharmonic of Tokyo/ Strickland. Total time: 75'15') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 692 | BRO Code: 116398 | Label: CRI (A strong Session student.) Fine, Vivian {b.1913}: Concertante for Piano & Orch. {Reiko Honsho w.Japan Phil./ Watanabe}; Missa Brevis for 4 Celli and Taped Voice {w.Jan DeGaetani, mezzo}; Momenti for Piano Solo {Lionel Nowak}; Quartet for Brass {David Jolley, horn et al.}; Sinfonia & Fugato for Solo Piano {Robert Helps}; Alcestis. (Imperial Philharmonic of Tokyo/ Strickland. Total time: 75'15') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 692 | BRO Code: 116398 | Label: CRI Genre: Piano Concerti Mamlok, Ursula {b.1928}: 'Panta Rhei' for Violin, Cello & Piano {B.Hudson, C.Finkel & A.Karis}; Variations for Solo Flute {S.Baron}; When Summer Sang {Da Capo Chamber Players}; Stray Birds {P.Bryn-Julson, soprano w.H.Sollberger, flute & F.Sherry, cello}; Sextet. (Parnassus Ensemble/ Korf) Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 891 | BRO Code: 116364 | Label: CRI Mamlok, Ursula: String Quartet #2 {Cassatt Quartet}; 'Girasol' for Flute, Clarinet, Violin, Viola, Cello & Piano; 'Polarities' for Flute, Violin, Cello & Piano {Parnassus Ensemble/ Korf}; 'Der Andreas Garten' for Soprano, Flute & Harp {Jubal Trio}; 'Constellations' for Orchestra. (Seattle Symph./ Schwarz) Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 806 | BRO Code: 116334 | Label: CRI Mamlok, Ursula: String Quartet #2 {Cassatt Quartet}; 'Girasol' for Flute, Clarinet, Violin, Viola, Cello & Piano; 'Polarities' for Flute, Violin, Cello & Piano {Parnassus Ensemble/ Korf}; 'Der Andreas Garten' for Soprano, Flute & Harp {Jubal Trio}; 'Constellations' for Orchestra. (Seattle Symph./ Schwarz) Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 806 | BRO Code: 116334 | Label: CRI (Another strong Sessions student -- he seemed to work well with woman. See also Miriam Gideon below.) Gideon, Miriam: Suite for Clarinet & Piano {S.Berkowitz & E.Rodgers}; Eclogue for Flute & Piano {P.Spencer & D.Oei} + Asstd. Songs (Cassolas, Sharp et al.) Add to cart | Price: $ 5.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: 80393-2 | BRO Code: 99452 | Label: NEW WORLD Gideon, Miriam {1906-1996}- 'Music for Voice & Ensemble': Sonnets from Shakespeare {W.Sharp, baritone w.Prism Orch./ Black}; Rhymes from the Hill {J.De Gaetani, mezzo w.D.Gilbert cond.}; The Hound of Heaven {W.Metcalf, baritone w.Jahoda cond.}; Nocturnes {J.Raskin, soprano w.DeMain cond.}; Resounding Lyre; Wing'd Hour {w.C.Cassolas, tenor}; Spirit Above the Dust. (E.Bonazzi, mezzo w.Contemporary Chamber Ensemble/ Weisberg. Total time: 73'29') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 782 | BRO Code: 116251 | Label: CRI Gideon, Miriam {1906-1996}- 'Music for Voice & Ensemble': Sonnets from Shakespeare {W.Sharp, baritone w.Prism Orch./ Black}; Rhymes from the Hill {J.De Gaetani, mezzo w.D.Gilbert cond.}; The Hound of Heaven {W.Metcalf, baritone w.Jahoda cond.}; Nocturnes {J.Raskin, soprano w.DeMain cond.}; Resounding Lyre; Wing'd Hour {w.C.Cassolas, tenor}; Spirit Above the Dust. (E.Bonazzi, mezzo w.Contemporary Chamber Ensemble/ Weisberg. Total time: 73'29') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 782 | BRO Code: 116251 | Label: CRI Cone, Edward T. {b.1917}: Duo for Violin & Cello; 'New Weather'- 4 Songs for Soprano & Piano to Poems by Paul Muldoon; Serenade for Flute, Violin, Viola & Cello; 'Philomela'- 3 Nightingale Songs for Soprano, Flute, Viola & Piano. (Mimmi Fulmer {soprano}, Jayn Rosenfeld {flute}, Cyrus Stevens {violin}, Scott Rawls {viola} et al. Total time: 60'21') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 737 | BRO Code: 116389 | Label: CRI (The great critic-musicologist was a tough-delicate, somewhat Stravinsky-ian composer, if Stravinsky had grown up on the coast of New England.) Aitken, H. {b.1924}: Piano Fantasy {Gary Kirkpatrick, piano}; Cantatas #'s 1 {on Elizabethan themes}, 3 {'From this White Island' on poems by Willis Barnstone} {both w. Charles Bressler, tenor}, 4 {on poems by Antonio Machado. With Jean Hakes, soprano} & 6 {'Remembering' on poems by Rilke. With Jan Opalach, bass-baritone}. (w.chamber ensemble or piano accompanying. Total time: 74'22') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 774 | BRO Code: 116377 | Label: CRI Boatwright, Howard {b.1918}: Sonata for Clarinet & Piano {Michael Webster & Barry Snyder}; 12 Pieces for Solo Violin {composer performing}; String Quartet #2. (Manhattan String Quartet. Total time: 63'27') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 775 | BRO Code: 116367 | Label: CRI (Helen Boatwright's husband -- she of the great Ives songs recording. Not unlike Ed Cone in style, but somehow you can tell Boatwright is from the mid-South. Modern though it is, his violin writing has a mountain fiddle tune feel at times.) Kohs, Ellis B. {b.1916}- Music for Keyboards and Strings: Passacaglia for Organ & Strings K.11 {Maija Lehtonen w.Grasbeck cond.}; Chamber Concerto for Viola & String Nonet K.28 {Ferenc Molnar w.Robert Mann, Robert Hillyer et al.}; Toccata K.25 {Lionel Salter, harpsichord}; String Quartet #2 {Gabor Rejto et al.}; Sonatina for Violin & Piano K.26. (Eudice Shapiro & Albert Dominguez. Total time: 71'40') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Mono | Code: CD 795 | BRO Code: 116254 | Label: CRI Wyner, Yehudi {b.1929}: Memorial Music I & II for Soprano & 3 Flutes; 'Intermedio'- Lyric Ballet for Soprano & Strings {all w.Susan Davenny Wyner, soprano}; Serenade for 7 Instruments {Boston Symphony Chamber Players/ composer}; Concert Duo for Violin & Piano {Matthew Raimondi & composer}; 3 Short Fantasies {Robert Miller, piano}; Passage I. (Musical Elements Ensemble/ Daniel Asia. Total time: 74'24') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: BULGARIA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 701 | BRO Code: 116399 | Label: CRI Martino, Donald {b.1931}: A Set for Marimba; 'Parisonatina Al'Dodecafonia' for Solo Cello; 12 Preludes for Piano Solo; 'Canzone e Tarantella sul nome Petrassi' for Clarinet & Cello; A Jazz Set. (The Core Ensemble) Add to cart | Price: $ 5.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: 80518-2 | BRO Code: 62294 | Label: NEW WORLD Martino {b.1931}, A Set for Clarinet {M.Webster}; Quodlibets for Flute {S.Baron}; Trio for Violin, Clarinet & Piano {P.Zukofsky, A.Bloom & G.Kalish}; Fantasy-Variations for Violin {P.Zukofsky}; Concerto for Wind Quintet {Contemporary Chamber Ensemble of Rutgers University/ Weisberg}; Strata for Bass Clarinet. (Dennis Smylie. Total time: 65'36') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 693 | BRO Code: 116284 | Label: CRI Genre: Contemporary Shapero, Piano Sonatas 1-3. Fine, Music for Piano. Ruggles, Evocations: 4 Chants for Piano. Menotti, Ricercare and Toccata on a Theme from 'The Old Maid and the Thief' (Michael Boriskin, piano) Add to cart | Price: $ 5.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: 80402-2 | BRO Code: 26166 | Label: NEW WORLD Imbrie, Chamber Music: Three Piece Suite for Harp & Piano; Five Roethke Songs {S.Narucki, soprano w.M.Goldray, piano}; Campion Songs {w.J.Peterson, soprano}; To a Traveler; Dream Sequence for Chamber Ensemble. (Parnassus Ensemble/ Korf) Add to cart | Price: $ 5.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: 80441-2 | BRO Code: 20336 | Label: NEW WORLD Kahn, Erich Itor: 3 Piano Bagatelles; Piano Inventions #'s 4,7 & 8; Rhapsodie for Violin & Piano {J.Prelle & T.Gunther}; 3 Chansons Populaires; 4 Pcs.on Medieval German Poems {C.Gayer, sop. w.F.Maus, piano}; 'Nenia Judaeis Qui Hac Aetate Perierunt' ('In Memory of the Jews Who Perished in the Holocaust' w.J.Sessions, cello & Gunther, piano) Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 563 | BRO Code: 11334 | Label: CRI Genre: Contemporary Barati {1913-1996}, Cello Concerto {Bernard Michelin w.London Phil./ composer}; Harpsichord Quartet {Baroque Chamber Players of Indiana}; Chamber Concerto. (Philadelphia Orch./ Ormandy) Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 794 | BRO Code: 116176 | Label: CRI. Finney, Ross Lee- Piano Music: Fantasy {1939}; Sonata #3 {1942}; Sonata Quasi una Fantasia {1961}; Narrative in Retrospect {1984}. (Martha Braden, piano) Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 560 | BRO Code: 116287 | Label: CRI Genre: Solo Piano{s} Kohs, Ellis B. {b.1916}- Music for Keyboards and Strings: Passacaglia for Organ & Strings K.11 {Maija Lehtonen w.Grasbeck cond.}; Chamber Concerto for Viola & String Nonet K.28 {Ferenc Molnar w.Robert Mann, Robert Hillyer et al.}; Toccata K.25 {Lionel Salter, harpsichord}; String Quartet #2 {Gabor Rejto et al.}; Sonatina for Violin & Piano K.26. (Eudice Shapiro & Albert Dominguez. Total time: 71'40') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Mono | Code: CD 795 | BRO Code: 116254 | Label: CRI Genre: Chamber Music Karchin, Louis: Galactic Folds {The New York New Music Ensemble/ Milarsky}; Songs of Distance & Light {Andrea Cawelti, soprano w.Players of the Washington Square Contemporary Music Society/ Lubman}; Ricercare {Curtis Macomber, violin}; Sonata for Cello & Piano. (Fred Sherry & James Winn) Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: CD 739 | BRO Code: 116244 | Label: CRI Karchin, Louis {b.1951}: 'American Visions'- 2 Songs on Yevtushenko Poems {Da Capo Chamber Players/ composer}; Rustic Dances; 'Cascades' for Solo Piano; Sonata da Camera for Violin & Piano; 'A Way Separate…'; String Quartet #2. (Washington Square Contemporary Music Society Players) Add to cart | Price: $ 5.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Digital | Code: 80583-2 | BRO Code: 110551 | Label: NEW WORLD Genre: Chamber Music (Karchin's instrumental music I mostly like -- Wourinen-influenced but more inherently musical (he has a good ear), and with some interesting, organic nudges toward minimalism and overt tonality at times. His writing for voice, though, I can't take -- not a single "natural" word accent and with no compensating abstract "whoosh." And those Yevtushenko texts! For some reason, I see EDC looking for Yevtushenko with a BB gun.) Shifrin, Seymour {1926-1979}: Three Pieces for Orchestra {London Sinfonietta/ Monod}; String Quartet #4 {Fine Arts Quartet}; Serenade for Five Instruments. (Melvin Kaplan {oboe}, Charles Russo {clarinet}, Robert Cecil {horn}, Ynez Lynch {viola} & Harriet Wingreen {piano}. Total time: 66'28') Add to cart | Price: $ 3.99 | Country: AMERICA | D/A code: Analogue | Code: CD 793 | BRO Code: 116236 | Label: CRI

I said that "I already had a lot of CRI things..." -- bought over the years at regular prices. I should then buy none when they're remaindered at Berkshire?

Oops -- that's Ursula Mamlok (not Marmalok) and Allen (not Allan) Anderson.

BTW, the process of deciding on your own what is wheat and what is chaff in a big bundle of new music is kind of educational -- at the very least, you learn something about yourself. Also, a lot of those CRI recordings I got are still at Berkshire. If anyone wants, I'll post a list of the ones I l liked (with occasional remarks/warnings).

This whole business is so charged-up, gummed-up, you name it, with familiar or unexamined personal experiences and predelictions (and I include my own here) and also from the rhetorical interventions of professional provokers like Bernard Holland and (probably more dangerous) shadow boxers like Alex Ross, that I'd like to ask Peter a specific question and then offer some testimony. The question is, Can you give us a list of the works that were on some or all of those "Moral Mandate" programs chamber music concerts? I ask for two reasons, and feeling fairly sure that some "This is good for you," Moral Mandate-thinking was going on behind the scenes there: (1) I want to know the kind and range of music on those programs that you did like (and of course I'll be reacting to this part of your answer based on my own musical experiences and prejudices, but I won't do that covertly), and (2) I want to know what were the modern pieces on those programs that you didn't like. Then, putting (1 and (2) together, and provided I myself know any of those modern pieces you didn't like, I can begin to figure out where you and I stand here -- and by "you" I don't necessarily mean (or only mean) you as an individual but you as a representative genuine music lover of one sort, in relation to myself as one of those of probably another sort, and then both of us (as types and individuals) in relation to what all has been and is going in the worlds of music-making of our time. My testimony is that I've been listening to a whole lot of so-called modern music (for me "modern" begins or began with the Second Viennese School and Stravinsky) with curiosity and pleasure since my early teens, and a big part of that pleasure is bound up with the curiosity factor. That is, once I picked up the scent of what seemed to be to be going here -- and "here" is much broader than the bit I've already mentioned, and by no means (I hope) am I an uncritical consumer of all that has happened here, or by now "there" -- I was fascinated both the the sheer musical quality of what seemed to me to be top notch, but also by the newness of what in all this actually was new, by the opportunities it seemed I was being given to encounter new forms of language in the process of their formation. I'm wired, or came to be wired, such that I found that very exciting almost in itself. I guess I'd either built the "Moral Mandate" into myself or turned it into a Pleasure Principle. And in an attempt to keep that particular sort of pleasure going for me, I'll often take a flier when I see one. For instance, a year or so ago, I noticed that Berkshire was selling almost all the CRI catalog (CRI being the subsidized modern American classical music label) for IIRC $3.99 a disc. I already had a lot of CRI things, but a lot I didn't know, so I sifted through as much as I could, listening to sound samples when possible, and ordered and then listened to a whole lot of stuff by my standards -- maybe 30 or 40 discs in all. And while maybe five of those were duds, the process of discovering what, say, Louis Karchin, or Allan Anderson, or Ruth Loman, or Ursula Marmalok etc., etc. were specifically up to (and just about every one of these composers was specifically up to something) was an enlightening and mostly delightful experience for me. Was it different from the experience I would have had if I had spent that much time relistening to marvelous works from the past that already were familiar to me? Sure. Does that mean I would have been better off either way? Can't be sure -- and of course, I listen to what I think are marvelous works from the past that already are familiar to me whenever I feel like it. But what I'm trying to put some flesh on here are the ways and the reasons that some people are pretty naturally drawn after the new in music, or at least the unfamiliar -- and this in name of what for them seems to be pleasure.

Absolutely.

Al Cohn at the Montmartre in Copenhagen, asked whether he wanted to try Denmark's celebrated Elephant Beer: "No, man, I drink to forget."

That's what I'm thinking, though I'd rather leave it at "very good Whiteman is very good and full of more interesting musical details than most anyone might think until they actually listened." Also, listening to these things tickles me because in my book (i.e. the book I wrote) I said at one point: "Why, then, the Marsalis phenomenon, such as it has been and perhaps still is? One struggles to think of another figure in the history of jazz who was a significant cultural presence but not a significant musical one. Dave Brubeck? Perhaps, but there is no counterpart in Marsalis’s music to the lyrical grace of Paul Desmond or to those moments when Brubeck himself was genuinely inspired. Paul Whiteman? Yes, in terms of the ability to marshal media attention, but if we credit Whiteman with all the music that was produced under his aegis, the comparison probably would be in his favor." Etc. I'd heard enough Whiteman at that time to mean literally what I said there, but of course I was also being provocative-bitchy. Now I discover that I wasn't giving Whiteman (or the Whiteman orchestra) nearly enough credit. Allen: The Sunbeam/Origin Jazz Library "Bix Restored" sets were done by John R.T. Davies and Michael Kieffer.

That story (the first one) is a classic, Randy.

Pardon the vulgarity and sexism of this anecdote, but it was an eye-opener when I was present to hear it at about age 13. My folks, my sister and I were staying at a hotel in Michigan City, Ind., in the summer of 1955, or maybe '56 -- a law fraternity convention -- and the trombone and tenor sax combo that played in the ballroom during and after dinner clearly to my somewhat novice ears consisted of talented young jazz musicians. I introduced myself during a break, they were friendly (I remember one of them saying to another, "Hey, this kid digs Art Pepper!"), and said that I should come down to the unoccupied basement bar area about 11 p.m.; they were going to have jam session there. Excited at the prospect, I tiptoed out of my room at the right time and went downstairs. In fact, no music was being played; I'm pretty sure that the first step in what they had in mind was to get high (probably pot, not hard drugs), and once they were high (before I arrived, or maybe I didn't know enough yet to know), no one was inclined to play, either that or maybe a key member of the band didn't show. In any case, most of the guys are sitting in a booth talking, while I'm sitting by myself in the booth behind them. The pianist, I think it was (a crew-cut guy who looked like one of the Hi-Los -- was it Clark Burroughs?), is going on about the band's relationship with the female members of the hotel staff; apparently the combo had been in residence for most of the summer, and these were (or thought they were) slick, hip Chicago-area guys who had a leg up, so to speak, on bedding whomever they wanted. (I should add that the best player in the band was its Richie Kamuca-influenced tenorman, Keith something-or-other, who was not present at the moment -- perhaps they were waiting for him.) So the crewcut pianist is recounting to his boothmates a conversation he'd recently had with one of his female hotel-staff conquests: "So I said to her, 'Hey, baby, can I put my tongue in your tunnel?'" This is followed by some indication of her assent, after which he continues his side of the remembered dialogue: "Only thing is, tonight I'm using Keith's tongue." Again, it's hard for me to recall how clearly I understood exactly what all this meant (13-year-olds in 1955 probably led more sheltered lives ), but I think I did fairly suddenly understand just about all of it, and this was a shock -- not only in terms of described but obviously real human behavior but also, especially, in terms of the actual words this guy used. For one thing, while I could imagine what he described happening, I couldn't begin to imagine how someone could actually say those two sentences to a woman, given that both sentences, but especially the second, amounted to an implicitly humiliating (although not without wit in its brutal compactness) assault on her dignity -- as though stripping her of that was a key part of the act. Romance, wooing -- that I could understand and envision. But this was a kind of sadism, no? Again, I was shocked. Further, what this bit of dialogue, and the pianist's decision to tell this tale to his little audience, says about all the various human relationships involved still remains kind of strange and complicated to me.

Me, too. And having heard Eastwood Lane's melancholic "Sea Burial" (arranged for orchestra for Whiteman by Ferde Grofe; it was a piano piece), I wonder if there is any other Lane on record. An initial search turns up nada.

OK, I get it. But isn't the logical, perhaps even inevitable, outcome of what you're describing a form of barter? And/or, at what point in this process do people like you and Chuck end up selling a fair amount more stuff to overseas customers than you used to, for the reasons you describe, but the more you sell to them, the more you may end up in a hole economically -- unless your costs of doing business in your own country are directly and fairly immediately tied to the value of your country's currency versus the currencies of other nations, which seems unlikely to always be the case.

honestly, the specifics weaken your position to me, unless you have doubts about how good the music is. if the originally released version sounds really exciting to people encountering it for the first time, then of course they'll buy the new and improved edition once it's out, especially considering you'll presumably be selling them worldwide in increasingly worthless currency units. in your position, I believe I'd be totally fine with MP3s of the original version circulating, maybe building up a bit of a buzz. if you really have such an issue with that, maybe you should make your own MP3s available for sale of the original until the new one is ready. that'd be my advice, not that you asked for it. Wait a minute -- if we're talking about "selling them worldwide in increasingly worthless currency units," to whom are those currency units "increasingly worthless"? The buyer? The seller? Both? If it's the last, then I guess we're disagreeing about nothing or envisioning a world in which Chuck trades copies of the remastered "Nonaah" for chunks of yak meat from Uzbekistan.

Today picked Vol. 2 and Vol. 3 (three CDs each) of the Sunbeam/Origin Jazz Library "Complete Recordings and Alternates of Bix Beiderbecke" -- there are five volumes in all, but Vol. 5, a single disc, consists of some newly discovered alternates and other recordings that supposedly show Bix's influence. Anyway, the plan here apparently is to gather every issued recording and surviving alternate take on which Bix appears, not just those on which he solos -- thus we hear such things as Whiteman's recording of Eastwood Lane's "Sea Burial" and Domenico Savino's "A Study in Blue," which are not included on, say, the Masters of Jazz Bix series because Bix's role on these pieces is solely as a member of the ensemble. On the other hand, having just listened to those two tracks, I wouldn't miss them for the world -- they offer fascinating insights into what seems to me to be the genuinely sophisticated and arguably advanced light classical music of the time, the playing of the Whiteman orchestra is superb, and besides Bix admired and supposedly was influenced to some extent by Lane's "moderne" music. Which brings me to my point -- the transfers and remastering here, by John R.T. Davies and Michael Kieffer, seem astonishing to me in their presence and clarity. One can hear, for instance, that the Whiteman orchestra string section was not shrilly sawing away but consisted of symphonic-level players, while the sound of Bix's horn is, a la Hoagy Carmichael's famous response the first time he heard Bix, enough to make you faint dead away. And this is important, I think, because then (depending on personal taste and background) one can hear quite clearly what and how much of this music is dated and what and how much is not. And a good deal that is not dated here is magnificent, while some of what is dated is still very interesting. In any case, on "Bix Restored" it's you and the music itself that are sorting this out; you're not thinking that it's quaint stuff musically because it sounds like a quaint recording job. But as I said above in the header, I'm no transfer/remastering scholar-expert. So does anyone know if this stuff has been transferred and remastered here as beautifully as my ears tell me it has, or are there other better versions out there? BTW, I've certainly heard tell of the quality of the Mosaic Bix-Tram-Teagarden Okeh set that Doug Pomeroy did, but a good-sized, important chunk of this material is not on the Mosaic, in particular the Whiteman and Goldkette RCA recordings (the latter are on "Bix Restored Vol. 1").

In my experience, never -- or not often enough so that you could rely on them. One of the surest giveaways to their frequent ... laziness, sloppiness, just don't care-ness, call it what you will, is not merely how bad some of their transfers or needle-drops sound if you know the original LPs but also that volume levels tend to vary a good deal when (as if often the case) two LPs, or parts of two LPs, are gathered on one Fresh Sounds CD. The recent Fresh Sounds reissue of Seldon Powell's two Roost LPs is typical. I'm not saying that there are no decent-sounding Fresh Sounds CD reissues, but how hard can it be to make volume levels consistent? I can only assume that no one (or no one with a brain) is listening, or that the person who is listening can't be bothered.

OK -- that's weird, because as you can see from my previous post, the titles you list above as being played by Getz/Levy/Vinnegar/Levey in Hollywood are in fact from TSS and are played by Getz/Allison/Farmer/Segal in New York (all the members of that rhythm section were New York-based; all the members of the other rhythm section were Hollywood-based). On the other hand, your saying that Levey's ride cymbal is much "crisper" than Segal's is correct, Levey having maybe the crispest ride cymbal ever heard before the dawn of the drum machine. I assume you just made an error in transcription or in cutting and pasting. Otherwise, I'm baffled.

For those so inclined, TSS is available on ITunes: http://www.vervemusicgroup.com/artist/rele...61&aid=2856

Oops - yes - wasn't clear...the two things I listened to were 1) The Dolphin (Levy/Budwig/Lewis); and 2) TSS - side A Levy/Vinegar/Levey, side B Allison/Farmer/Segal...I'm afraid I know next to nothing about Getz etc. - does that mean that my TSS is a compilation? I think what felt a bit 'clunky' to me about the Allison rhythm section was actually Segal's ride cymbal - much less crisp than Levey on the flip side...although I don't know enough to tell whether that might be the way it was recorded more than anything... The original TSS LP consists of: 1. All The Things You Are 2. Pocono Mac 3. Down Beat 4. To The Ends Of The Earth 5. Bye Bye Blues Unfortunately my TSS LP is missing about a half-inch deep triangle of vinyl, which means you have to place the needle that far in on each side. But then I listened to it a lot over the years before whatever caused that little disaster. I know TSS is available in Japan on CD for about $27, but I've never seen a copy in a store, where impulse might take over. About Levey versus Segal, I agree, but Segal's somewhat languid ride cymbal feel (which I'm sure is a choice on his part) plays a big part in that loping groove that makes TSS what it is.

Also, Red, the rhythm section on "The Dolphin" is Levy/Monty Budwig/Victor Lewis. You probably were thinking of/meant to say the "West Coast Sessions" Getz double album, which is in part Levy/Vinnegar/Levey, in part Levy/Vinnegar/Manne.