Larry Kart

Seem quite logical to me -- why are you dubious? For a few reasons: -As Jim notes, not only does the tune not exactly sound like Hatikvah, it's not even really a minor blues as recorded by the nonet. -I know that Carisi was not Bird, but in general the beboppers were not so obviously referential like this when it came to current events. It's not like there were many tunes written about Truman or Roosevelt or the partition of India. And on Birth of the Cool, especially, the reference just seems a little out of place among the tunes that were performed. -The exhibit that this was a part of seemed to be stretching things for some of the tunes that were presented as examples of the melding of black American and Jewish culture. The Cab Calloway Yiddish jive tunes definitely fit the bill...but they also included stuff like Grant Green's version of Shadrack from Feelin' the Spirit. To me it's pretty obvious that Green's interpretation of Shadrack has only the most tenuous of connections to Judiasm. While of course the Exodus story and other parts of the Old Testament had long been used as the religious background for the Civil Rights movement, that doesn't mean that there was anything consciously Jewish about their adoption, especially on an album devoted to jazz treatments of the gospel tradition. So I had reason to be skeptical about the appropriateness of other tunes included as part of the exhibit. I'm not talking about the exhibit or Yiddish jive but the Middle Eastern music (Jewish and Palestinian) that Wolpe heard and responded to when he lived in Palestine and that might through him might have influenced Carisi. This music was not "Bei Meir Bist Du Schoen" or "And the Angels Sing." Track down Wolpe's stunning "Ten Songs From the Hebrew," and you'll have some idea. In lieu of that, if you have Spotify, check out Wolpe's Zemach Suite VII: Dance in the Form of a Chaconne, which has some of his Palestine-era vibe.

About "Israel" being a minor blues and thus ... yes, I think that's a bridge or three too far. The music of Palestine that Wolpe (and perhaps through him Carisi in part) was responding to would have been predominantly in the minor mode by and large, as we classify such things. Further, perhaps my "positively" isn't even needed. Could have just been the fact of possible connection through Wolpe to the music of that region and the piece Carisi had written, plus the fact that Israel was in the news. Handy tag, like "Klactoveedsedstene."

BTW, John McDonough has an IMO quite bizarre three-star review of the Lunceford set in the current Down Beat.

Seem quite logical to me -- why are you dubious? You didn't have to be Jewish to take notice (it was certainly all over the news) and to respond positively to the founding of state of Israel. Also, Carisi's teacher Wolpe had lived in Palestine in the 1930s and written many pieces there that made use of modal procedures, as "Israel" does (Wolpe having been inspired by modal strains in Jewish and Palestinian music).

His sound and time (everything about him, actually) has a lot of personal knots and whorls in it. He could be a nice test case of the difference between being quite personal and expressive within a more or less given style and not being that way -- a test case because what makes Kindred so personal and expressive, so himself, will not be familiar to most listeners, while most others who are personal and of his vintage (or younger) will be recognized up front and this probably will influence one's judgment.

Interesting player, to say the least. That "Sunburst" album with Henderson is a gem -- as you say, some of of the best Henderson there is.

Ordered and just got his Milan label album as a result of Allen's initial post. Very fine -- thanks.

It ain't literally HIP, but the best I know is Gidon Kremer on ECM.

Can't count this as a great game because all the Ranger pitchers after Holland left the game looked like they had some significant degree of fear in their hearts (though Feldman overcame that until he didn't). Yes, the Cardinals who got those hits got those hits, but those Ranger relief pitchers seemed to me to more or less spit out the bit, which for me removed this game from the "titanic struggle" category. Still hoping the Rangers win. Too much about the Cardinals I don't like, starting with those evil zombies LaRussa and Dave Duncan.

That was weird.

I know what you and the Indian percussionist are referring to about "Sound," but having heard that music at the time, and in the context of live performances by those musicians, I never felt any amatuerishness or even "chaotic looseness" there; rather, the sheer will, skill and precision involved seemed striking in itself and by comparison to a lot of other music. This I think is especially true of "Ornette" and "The Little Suite" -- not a wasted motion anywhere (that I can hear). A possible exception would be Maurice McIntyre's solo on "Sound," which does have something of a jumping off a cliff quality, but given what he achieves....

I'm kind of glad that I got the Chu Berry set, for Chu, but as the liner notes point out in frustratng detail, the Calloway band often was in poor, half-assed shape in the recording studios. The contrast with the how the Lunceford band plays on that great Mosaic set is almost shocking, but then the Lunceford band was something else by any standard.

Fascinating post, ep1str0phy.

Stephan Fetich had that problem.

Nothing representative by Rigby on YouTube, just some conventional sideman big-band crap, but his entire album "The Sage" (2008) can be found on Spotify, featuring the same group I heard but with Gerald Cleaver on drums.

Funny you should mention Trentham because my old friend (since high school) Bob Chatain (spent a lot of time with him in NY, as I always do) was an good amateur drummer at Columbia U. back in the '60s (modeled himself on Jimmy Cobb), and their regular sessions really came together when Cameron came on board. Bob has often told me what a terrific player Trentham was, but he seems to have vanished from sight many years ago.

I'm back. Was in NYC. Caught some fine music, especially tenorman Jason Rigby at the Jazz Gallery with Russ Johnson (tpt), Mike Holober (pno), Cameron Brown (bs), and Mark Ferber (dms). Also caught vibist Chris Dingman at the Cornelia St. Cafe. Nice but a bit bland for my tastes. And I hate the Cornelia St. Cafe. One problem with jazz in NYC is too many clubs are run by arrogant assholes who seem determined to alienate their customers.

I'm a fan, almost without reservation. Yes, WW does have an intervallic "system," but it seems to consistently inspire him, especially rhythmically, which one wouldn't necessarily expect. I would never think of WW as being related Eric Alexander, other than that they play the same instrument.

until I get back.

Not the best player but the best name. Conrad Gozzo is OK name-wise, but he's no Lyman Vunk IMO. I mean if we didn't know Gozzo's playing, that might be the name of some lounge lizard with a pencil moustache, but Lyman Vunk has to be a guy who weighs at least 250 lbs. and has a neck as wide as his shoulders.

The late Nelson Hatt had a good name for the job, too.

Leyland and Washington sure are a pair of old coots.

For certain Chris Albertson is older than I am, but is he the oldest here?

Lyman Vunk (with Charlie Barnet and others -- even better if he played lead)

Sorry, Jack. Just a guess because I know you've been around for a while. BTW, who among us here is the oldest? I'm 69 -- surely it can't be me? Ted O'Reilly, perhaps?