Larry Kart

If this is real, and I think it is, good grief: P.S. In case you can't tell, he's trying to play "My Way." A certain justice in that.

Is anyone surprised with fanatics like this? I am curious. Since it's apparent that it's okay to in essence to say "Fuck all the French" on this board. Is it okay on this board for any other liked minded to say the equivalent with anyone of color, all those who are Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Homosexual,...maybe even say let's turn Iran and the 78 million people who live there into a grease spot (oh yeah, the same "fanatic" made it very clear he's all for that as well.)....or is it basically some sort of "Freedom Fries" thing which makes it okay to say "Fuck the 65 million people who live in France"? Blue Train -- You've got to reach back to 2009 and dredge this up and then drape it in some "general" point about are we OK here with disparagement of "anyone of color, all those who are Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Homosexual" etc. in order (or so it seems to me) to get at someone you have a long unhappy/angry history with on another board? Yeesh. I'll leave this post of yours up for a while so we can all walk around it and wonder at what must be going here.

I reviewed "8th of July" for Down Beat way back when. A nice memory.

I reviewed "8th of July" for Down Beat way back when. A nice memory.

Keep telling that brand of "truth" and you'll be gone. Read the forum rules and you'll see why.

I deleted Blue Train's name-calling posts for the obvious reasons and Goodspeak's reply to the first of them because it quotes Blue Train's name-calling. We just don't need that here in any form.

Jackson has been (since Dec. 2008) and still is Ed Farmer's radio partner. Geez -- Dunn has 38 home runs and 87 RBI. Where would be without him?

Is Hawk one of those things that wears better when you hear him every day than on and of a few days a year over the decades? I tended to enjoy his eccentricities when it was him & Wimpy on WGN a few times a week, but since then...not my guy, I know. Just wondering if it feels different when it is your guy. Was following the last inning of that game on MLB TV, and after the excitement wore off, I got to thinking like a Tired Old Man and realized that everybody could have saved everybody a lot of energy by just putting the damn game away in the top of the 9th, sparing the drama, and as soon as the game's over, hey, a boring win counts the same as a heart-stopping one. But these kids with all their energy and stuff, you can't tell 'em nothing, ya' know? No, it doesn't feel different when Hawk is your guy. Will never forget when his onetime partner Darrin Jackson told him to drop "a can of corn" because it was old and that he should find another cliche. From that moment, you knew that Jackson was was going to be a onetime partner. BTW, I didn't notice what was the source of some dispute by the Mariners on the last play of that game. They claimed that Konerko, the batter, passed Kevin Youkilis on the basepath as that crazy final play unfolded -- Yuoukilis probably having stopped to watch whether the ball was going to be caught while Konerko was still chugging along and watching, too -- and if Konerko had passed Youkilis, Konerko would have been out, even if the ball had been dropped, and the whole play would have been dead at that point. Whether in fact he did pass Youkilis I don't know, but if he did, and he could have, that almost certainly happened after the winning run had crossed the plate, at which point the game was over and the the rest was moot. Extra crazy there, and a sign that this game was being played under the sign of The Great Goofus, is that what neither Konerko nor Youkilis did on the basepath had any meaning, unless they themselves did something to screw things up. The game was tied in the bottom of the ninth when Konerko came to bat; the guy (Dewayne Wise) who was or was not going to score the winning run was ahead of both him and Youkilis on the basepath. And both Konerko and Youkilis are more than 10-year veterans. Eeesh.

Batshit crazy and perhaps crucial White Sox win tonight after the Tigers lose. Sox blow a five-run lead in the top of the ninth to go down 8-7 and then win 9-8 on a Konerko fly to deep right center that the Mariner right fielder catches and then has it knocked out of his glove in a collision with the center fielder, Dewayne Wise scoring from second. On the previous play, a Dunn deep fly to the wall, caught by the backpedaling left fielder, the normally savvy Wise for some reason drifted halfway to third and just stared instead of waiting on second and tagging up; if he had he could have then walked into third, and then even if Konerko's fly had been caught he still would have scored the winning run. And if Dunn's ball had not been caught, Wise could have scored easily on that play from second. You can put me on a board, yes.

I hold no brief (or briefs, for that matter) for Sandusky or Paterno, but while it's certainly possible that the Freeh Report was conducted in a rock-solid manner, it should be remembered that Freeh himself had a fairly ghastly record as FBI Director and also was quite ethically challenged in his behavior there: http://www.salon.com/2002/06/04/freeh/ http://bobgeiger.blogspot.com/2005/10/louis-freeh-new-gop-smear-artist.html

No, not a "problem" -- I just meant that I can't take you to a place when your experience, sensibility, intellect, etc. say "There's no 'there' there." As for "jue perle," I've heard some of those pianists on recordings -- e.g. Marguerite Long -- and can detect little resemblance between their touch and articulation and Solal's, which can be near explosive. Rather, in those realms (and others,e.g. his use of harmonic trap doors) I think of Solal as perhaps the most deeply Tatumesque pianist we have, though not in terms of photographic imitation. So, very Tatum-esque and also deeply Gallic? Well, before I try to tackle that (and that may not be for a while), your "Jewish pianist growing up in French Algeria playing a music widely identified as African American" doesn't convince me that the outcome can't be very French any more than "George Gershwin, a Jewish pianist-composer growing up in Manhattan's Lower East Side ghetto, playing a music widely identified as African American" couldn't result in something very American -- though, aspects of this (alleged) American-ness or Frenchness certainly could be something that such figures themselves significantly redefined.

Right -- you've got a point there.

If you wanted to play the lineage game (and it's a mug's game for the most part) you could identify, in pretty much concrete terms, the things that Herbie shares with impressionist French antecedents. "Impish and feline" isn't going to get more concrete than that. If you can't hear the Frenchness in Solal, I can't help you. But that's OK by me -- if you don't hear it, you don't.

About Solal, I was thinking of his impish, feline wit/playfulness -- impulses/habits that seem to me to crop up in a lot of French art of all sorts, though of course Solal's native land is Algeria. In any case, Herbie's "impressionism" seems to me to be a different kind of thing. I think it's been pretty well established in other conversations on this board that African-American musicians should not be allowed to claim African influences because everything that's pointed to as "African" gets rebutted as not being exclusively and/or specifically African. Or something like that. The people who make those rebuttals are smarter that me. Or, if not smarter, at least more certain. So hey, sorry guys, your music can't be African and it can't be fully American (or even African-American) without somebody getting their snoot in a snit about it. Must be a tough gig, that's all I can say. Who here is saying it can't be "fully American"? Exclusively and/or wholly American -- perhaps not over the course of time, but fully American in origin and essential development for a good long stretch, sure.

Those "cynical" comments have been deleted because they violate forum rule 8: We do not allow commenting on the price of wares in the "Offering/Looking for" forum. No those comments don't actually say that the prices being asked are too high, but the clear implication that one would have to be deluded to buy such things at all certainly has that effect. A separate thread about why such things are objects of audiophile fantasy or some such would be perfectly legit.

So Jim, is that "American jazz with a fill-in-the-blanks accent" or not? It almost certainly wouldn't be at all if it weren't for American jazz, but the non-American aspects are so strong and so essential to what makes work that I wouldn't want to be Solomon here.

Sure, but that's not what Hancock was saying -- or so it seems to me. And/or are you saying that, for example, jazz with a strong Czech accent and perspective, if there be such a thing (BTW, on that particular question I just don't know enough to have an opinion) is not Czech jazz but something that's essentially American? BTW, speaking of Vitous, I wouldn't say that there was much of anything about his music that made him sound like a notably/significantly non-American jazz musician. But what, then, of Aladar Pege?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aladár_Pege Not my favorite bassist, but Pege sure sounded Hungarian. In any case, it sounds like Hancock might be talking about ownership from a "No, no, they can't take that away from me" point of view, which is understandable but not necessarily enlightening.

According to this review, Joe Posnanski's new Joe Paterno biography reveals, among other anomalies, that Paterno and Jerry Sandusky despised each other for many years! http://www.kansascity.com/2012/08/19/3769516/posnanskis-paterno-complicates.html

If he said that, he's wrong. Anyone for Django, for example? Martial Solal's music isn't profoundly Gallic? Lars Gullin's isn't deeply Swedish? And on and on and on....

I heard McKibbon in-person once, in a Billy Taylor-led trio with Freddie Waits. McKibbon was a revelation, put "one" in a unique place, balanced right on top of the beat IIRC but placed there with much suppleness. The resulting lift this gave to things -- wow. Actually, quite similar to Israel Crosby. Also, McKibbon's sound was as big as he was.

Semi-guilty pleasure, but lately I've been enjoying the Shearing quintet in general and the group's series of '50s Capitol "Latin" LPs in particular as they show up from time to time for $1 at my local Half-Price Books store in playable shape. Yesterday it was "Latin Escapade" and "Latin Affair," the former with a "classic" version of the group (Emil Richards, Toots Thielemans, Al McKibbon, Percy Brice, Armando Peraza), the latter with new members Warren Chaisson, Carl Pruitt and Roy Haynes(!!). The formula remains consistent, but I find enough subtle variation in the charts and their execution to be satisfied, and Peraza is a gas. Also, without being IMO at all soporific, the band is SO relaxed and "in there." So-called "light music" usually is something I don't much like, but either this music isn't that, or merely, light or I'm getting soft in the head.

Sorry -- I can't moderate behavior that takes place while I'm asleep or otherwise occupied. In particular, Goodspeak -- at first glance, and I'm not going to go into this further, having wasted much time and effort doing so before, you are the main hurler of insulting remarks here. Further, while of course I'm not, as a moderator, in a position to judge the rightness or wrongness of your more than familiar stance on this issue, it is, as has been pointed out, more than familiar to all of us, and you have to my and our knowledge failed to make a single convert here to your point of view. Thus, I would suggest that from now on you either keep a strict hold on your emotions on this thread or simply stay away from it. It that fair or equitable? -- probably not. But in certain straits (and this is one of them IMO) we moderators are like school teachers handling a disruptive classroom. When the air gets filled with wads of gum, erasers, half-eathen peanut butter sandwiches and insults, one answer (and it's the one that's going to apply here unless I'm overruled by Jim or my fellow moderator) is simply to separate the combatants. Thus because without Goodspeak there would seem to be no combat on this thread, and because there is no sign that this Goodspeak-against-nearly-all combat has led or could lead anyone to change his mind, I again emphatically suggest that Goodpeak on this thread should either censor himself a good deal or just chose not to comment. And "emphatically suggest" is not the final step -- got it?

Yes, Jim -- not easy or difficult but appealing. Easy can appeal, as can difficult. But not appealing can be turned into appealing hardly ever. OTOH I see no need to apologize for the wide range of music that's appealed to me over the years, nor any need on my part (beyond a certain reasonable point of paying attention/gathering information/satisfying curiosity) to try to get with stuff that appeals to others but not to me. Further, if what appeals to me turns out at the moment or down the road to be a "minority" matter, so be it. In the end, as Keynes put it, we're all dead.

Chuck -- Remember the time that Bud and an all-star band that included Al Cohn was playing at the Blackstone in the largish ballroom on the other side of the hall from the Jazz Showcase? Afterwards Al mentioned that the reason during his solos Bud quite oddly played facing almost directly to the left side of the room rather than facing forward toward the audience was that the left side of the room was almost completely covered by a large mirror in which Bud could see himself.