Larry Kart

FWIW, "disinterested" and "uninterested" are two similar sounding but very different words. The former means that one "doesn't have an interest in," as in one "is impartial, is not backing a particular side/favoring a particular outcome." The latter means one "isn't interested in" something, as in one "doesn't care about it." Baseball umpires/football referees/judges, etc. should be disinterested parties, but they certainly should not be uninterested in what's going on in front of them.

I'm thoroughly confused now, but what else is new? I apologize to Brownie and Hans. Peace.

Looking back, I see that Hans' message to me about your query to him (not your message to me) did say "Brownie wants this thread deleted," not this post. Again, sorry for the mixup.

I thought that your message to me meant that you wanted the thread eliminated, not just the post. Sorry.

'Tain't the pointless superlatives, it's the pretentious trot Papsrus so neatly parodied. Now, if you want pointless superlatives AND pretension, together with unerringly misplaced puctuation, read some sleeve notes by Dzondria LaIsaac (perhaps a name assumed by Don Robey, for whose labels (Duke, Peacock, Songbird et al) LaIsaac wrote notes on gospel and R&B albums). Those notes are works of real genius. MG Ah, yes -- I remember her contributions to some Bobby Blue Bland albums. Yes, indeed. How do you know Dzondria was a woman? Was she a real person? Did you meet her at the National Association of Music Writers of America, or some such gig? MG Just a guess. Dzondria doesn't sound like a guy's name, though as you suggest she/he/it could have been someone's invention.

Not to be missed is the recorded-in-England Jazz Icons Art Farmer DVD with LaRoca, Jim Hall, and Steve Swallow, where you get to see LaRoca as well as hear him (everyone is in fine form). Only drawback, as a drummer friend pointed out, is that LaRoca is playing a rented set of drums, not his own kit.

Excerpt from something I wrote about Vaughan, though I wouldn't give her use of vibrato a blanket endorsement: In the chapter [Martin] Williams devoted to Vaughan in his book The Jazz Tradition, he pointed out that it is on Great Songs From Hit Shows that “all her resources began to come together and a great artist emerged.” Those resources, he explained, included “an exceptional range (roughly of soprano through baritone), exceptional body, volume, a variety of vocal textures, and superb and highly personal vocal control.... When she first discovered her vibrato, she indulged it. But it has become a discreet ornament ...of unusually flexible size, shape, and duration.” All true, but perhaps more needs to be said about Vaughan’s vibrato, which to my mind is not an “ornament,” no matter how discreetly it is used, but a resource that, for Vaughan, may be the most fundamental of all.... On Great Songs From Hit Shows she swings harder and more freely on the ballads than she does on all but one of the medium- to up-tempo tracks, where she is accompanied by a brass-and-reeds big band or a brass-and-reeds-plus-strings ensemble. In part that’s because most of the big-band tracks have a rather mechanical, neo-Lunceford feel to them. But the key reason the best ballad tracks here are so rhythmically compelling is that Vaughan’s sense of swing begins in her sound. That is, her shadings of vibrato, volume, and timbre are also rhythmic events (rhythm, after all, being a facet of vibration)--to the point where the degree of rhythmic activity within a given Vaughan note (especially at slowish tempos) can be as intense, and as precisely controlled, as that of any of her note-to-note rhythmic relationships. And one notices that so much here because, as the occasionally very sugary strings swirl around her and flutes are left hanging from the chandeliers, control of the rhythmic flow is left almost entirely in Vaughan’s hands. Of course a taste for imperceptibly shading tone-color events into rhythmic ones is not unique to Vaughan; Debussy’s music, for one, is unthinkable without it, as is, for that matter, Johnny Hodges’s and Johnny Dodds’s. But Vaughan’s overtone-rich timbre, the way it and her vibrato interact, and the seemingly spontaneous control she has over every aspect of all this are unique. As Gunther Schuller put it, Vaughan doesn’t have one voice but voices, while her vibrato is a “compositional, structural...element.” Just listen to Vaughan in full flight--say, at the very beginning of “You’re My Everything.” In the six seconds and five notes that it takes her to sing the title phrase, cruising out on the booming lushness she gives to “thing,” it’s virtually impossible to sort out whether, at any point, it is rhythmic needs that are shaping Vaughan’s timbral colorations or vice versa--and that is as it should be. In fact, one way to describe Vaughan’s timbre cum vibrato, inside-the-note rhythmic shapes would be to say that she has drums in her voice--perhaps Elvin Jones’s.

Sent

That reminds me of Ravel's oft-quoted remark, along the lines of: 'I wish people would not interpret my work; it suffices merely to play it', which I like very much. MG Yes, but Ravel's music bears little resemblance to Rachmaninoff's when it comes to the need/desirability of projecting emotion. Also, IIRC, Rach the pianist's own way with his concerti in particular changed considerably over the course of time; only in his late recordings of them did he adopt the approach that some feel is "calculated, cold and mannered."

By the same token, the band that played Manny Albam's charts for his West Side Story album...not real crazy about the charts or the solos, but I don't know that I've ever heard a better ensemble blend between players on an album of that nature. All the usual suspects are in place, and it's obvious why the were the usual suspects. Has that album ever been available on cd? Yes: http://www.freshsoundrecords.com/west_side_story_&_steves_songs_2_lp_on_1_cd-cd-5248.html

The Jazz Soul of Porgy and Bess / Bill Potts (United Artists UAL 4043) Harry Edison, Art Farmer, Bernie Glow, Marky Markowitz, Charlie Shavers (tp) Jimmy Cleveland, Rod Levitt, Frank Rehak, Earl Swope (tb) Bob Brookmeyer (vtb) Gene Quill, Phil Woods (as) Al Cohn, Zoot Sims (ts) Sol Schlinger (brs) Bill Evans (p) Herbie Powell (g) George Duvivier (b) Charlie Persip (d) Bill Potts (arr, cond) NYC, Jan. 13 & 15, 1959

Some Scott Ross Handel. Sounds darn good to me: More Ross playing Handel:

The actual great working bands, of course, from Ellington of several eras, to Basie of the '30s, Hines of several eras, Lunceford, Herman's First Herd, etc. But for bands that were assembled for a specific occasion, I'm very fond of the one that recorded Bill Potts' "Porgy and Bess" settings in 1959 IIRC. Lots of impressive names there, but did they ever play together. And Charlie Persip!

The Shostakovich recordings of selections from his own Preludes and Fugues and the Op 34 Preludes are also worth tracking down. As to others: Rachmaninov: Definitive recordings of his own concerti, but sadly not enough of his solo works. If they sound very different from most modern performances could it be because modern performers are not getting it quite right? Prokofiev: a good CD's worth of his own music, including the third concerto. Bartok: Definitive performances of the 2nd violin sonata and first Rhapsody with Szigeti (Library of Congress, late 1930's), plus some very fine commercial discs (Suite op 14, Allegro Barbaro, part of the Improvisations Op 20, 6 Romanian Dances, many, many pieces from Mikrokosmos, the first recording of Contrasts with Szigeti and Benny Goodman). For anoraks, there are excerpts from the 2nd concerto in poor sound, but very interesting indeed. A very classy pianist with a more flexible and even "romantic" style than you might imagine: extraordinary playing. I enjoy Stravinsky's recordings of his own piano works, but he is more of a "composer's" pianist, ditto the Duo Concertant with Szigeti... Bear in mind that not all composers are virtuoso performers, and their own performances are perhaps not always what they would have produced if they were better executants, but there is always something to learn. Charles Ives' recordings are fascinating, and the excerpts from the Concord Sonata give you a sense of his improvisatory freedom. Medtner's recordings of his own music(issued by APR) are very fine indeed. Britten and Rostropovich playing Britten's Cello Sonata. Probably lots of others that I can't remember at the moment. Ah, Poulenc, both solo pieces and song accompaniments to Pierre Bernac. Lots of pedal and some faking, but full of character. Piano rolls can be interesting and Appian in Texas have produced some very nice CDs of Skryabin, Debussy and Mahler, ie composers who left no disc recordings (there are many other remasterings of this material, but these are the best I've heard). There are enormous limitations in the medium but they are very useful with regards to tempi, rubato, etc. Debussy's doubling of the tempo on page 2 of La Cathedrale Engloutie is a famous example (the piano roll makes it clear that this is the way he wanted it, and for some reason left out the doppio movimento marking that would have indicated this). Composers CONDUCTING their own music is another big topic! Just remembered, there's a wonderful Marston CD of Grieg and Saint-Saens playing their own short pieces. Really wonderful, although the sound is rather primitive... Don't bother with earlier remasterings, they have unlistenable wow, which has been corrected in this CD from a few years back. I hope this gives you something to get started on! About Rachmaninov playing his own music, I pretty much agree with this from piano maven Dan Koren: "i'm definitely in the minority here, but i'll say this anyway: rachmaninov's interpretations of his own music are perfect examples of how *not* to play rachmaninov. they're calculated, cold and mannered -- and they do not project or suggest in any manner that he lives the music, as opposed to just performing it." Koren adds (and I agree) that Richter is the standard (along with a few others, e.g. , Gilels, Cliburn, Michelangeli) in the Rachmaninov works that Richter and they have recorded.

What if it was recorded in Carnegie Hall, or outdoors in a field,, or an isolated room even smaller than your living room? Sounds quarellous, probably, but not meant to be. Always interested in hearing how different people "hear", what their expectations are, etc.. So no "picking a fight" or anything here, honest. As for your variables, well, sure, but my sense is that one can detect the presence of far-range-of-the-scale factors quite readily and take them into account. I recall some seemingly substantial in every way speakers when you lived on N. Kimball.

Yes -- I've read it. Very good book, fascinating albeit sometimes very difficult man.

:party: Yes, indeed. :party:

Haven't done any comparisons since I got Scott Ross' set a few years ago, but I recall thinking then that it was very good.

My 805s are on some heavy heavy-duty stands (they're filled with sand IIRC) that were built to go with them, and the resulting elevation (about ear high if you're sitting down), plus good placement in the room (including relation to sound-absorbing items like rugs) makes a big difference. About bass response, I'm not a fan of strength per se but think in terms of accuracy/balance -- subjective matters, of course, but when I'm listening I don't like to hear anything in any register that sticks out. My two standard tests, aside from certain fairly imperfect recordings that can sound OK or better if things are just right, are solo piano and the lightly accompanied human voice because I think I know what a piano or a voice should sound like in a room that's about the size of my listening room. If they sound right to me, then so will, say, the Mahler Third or "Chasin' the Trane."

'Tain't the pointless superlatives, it's the pretentious trot Papsrus so neatly parodied. Now, if you want pointless superlatives AND pretension, together with unerringly misplaced puctuation, read some sleeve notes by Dzondria LaIsaac (perhaps a name assumed by Don Robey, for whose labels (Duke, Peacock, Songbird et al) LaIsaac wrote notes on gospel and R&B albums). Those notes are works of real genius. MG Ah, yes -- I remember her contributions to some Bobby Blue Bland albums.

Actually, when I was a copy editor in my later years at the Chicago Tribune, I did help two talented writers -- one at her request on several major stories (because she was a good friend and wasn't getting any of the help she thought she needed from the editors she was writing for), the other because I normally edited his stuff. The second case was especially satisfying because I was sure I was making little or no headway, even though the writer was very smart -- making no headway, I think, because he was frequently caught up in trying to show off to his bosses and to the readers how cute he was. Then, for some reason, he got it and became one of the best writers on the paper.

Some excerpts from the work of Andrew Keh of the Times (see above). "The momentous aura persisted as the fans hung on every pitch. But the joyous element was excised rather quickly as the Cardinals took advantage of Edwin Jackson’s early shakiness. " "Amid the protracted commotion at Yankee Stadium late Saturday night, two of the Detroit Tigers’ hits were particularly rued inside the home clubhouse for how avoidable they seemed." "The atmosphere inside Nationals Park on Thursday never seemed like it would match the relentless vivacity of the previous day, when this city hosted its first postseason baseball game since 1933. The crowd of 44,392 stood constantly and cheered in full voice, but also seemed muted at times by anxiety, particularly as the game wore on and the specter of elimination grew.... Werth provided the difference, blowing open a taut, nerve-racking contest well after the reddish haze of dusk had come and gone from the sky. He came to the plate to open the bottom of the ninth inning with the teams tied, 1-1, to face Lance Lynn, a hard-throwing right-hander. He took two strikes, looked at two balls and then proceeded to foul off six straight pitches. On and on he battled, and louder and louder the fans grew. “I didn’t hear a thing,” Werth said. “It was pretty quiet to me.” "Wrapped in his inner silence, Werth saw a 96-mile-an-hour fastball, the 13th pitch of the at-bat, sail over the middle of the plate and smashed it. There was no doubt about where the ball was landing, and the crowd roared. As the stadium pulsated, Werth circled the bases with fury, throwing his helmet high into the air as he charged down the third-base line. As he approached home plate, he leapt up and stomped down with both feet before his teammates engulfed him." "The sparkling play felt contagious." "Both starters could muster only abbreviated outings." "For another autumn and winter, stable amid the rubble of another collapsed Mets season will stand Terry Collins, the team’s fiery manager.... At least in recent memory, no leader of a troubled sports team in New York has enjoyed the apparent sympathy and overall perception of job security that Collins has during his tenure in Queens. And as the Mets’ 2012 season hobbled to its conclusion last week, votes of confidence again rang out.... Emotional investment has become Collins’s defining trait, and its outward expression has hurt him at times, most noticeably when he has insinuated that his players have stopped trying. "Other players compared Collins’s sporadic shows of exasperation to those that arise in a tight-knit family living in close quarters. In those circumstances, friction can seem inevitable, and emotions can be difficult to check." "Throughout sports, managers and head coaches who are disciplinarians are met with the same enthusiasm as those who are more relaxed types — as long as the wins are there." "But coaches, players and officials on the Mets know that baseball is a results-oriented business. They have all said as much, And it is clear some kind of reckoning is slowly approaching." In much of Keh's work there is a nagging air of approximation and near-tone deaf restatement -- e.g. "...stable amid the rubble of another collapsed Mets season," "...compared Collins’s sporadic shows of exasperation to those that arise in a tight-knit family living in close quarters" -- in addition to the frequent dumb metaphors and Dick-and-Jane rhythms ("On and on he battled, and louder and louder the fans grew"). What, I wonder, if one were his copy editor? Could he be helped? Would he accept help?

My previous current bete noire in this department has been Andrew Keh of the NY Times, who writes on baseball for the most part. A collection of choice bits of Keh would be something else. Again -- and I suspect this is true because Keh is fairly young (a recent Columbia U. grad, I believe) -- I don't think this is solely or even primarily a case of people who probably couldn't write straight if they tried and get all hung up when they try to write fancy. Rather, it's that these people are being taught and encouraged to to write this way, perhaps because the belief is that "We need to show the readers that we're really working." The Times' excellent golf writer Karen Crouse is a blessed exception.

That such goofy, incoherent writing is permitted in a newspaper is one thing -- and I do understand that Brian Hamilton was filing on deadline -- but that it is encouraged (as I suspect it is) and that both Hamilton and his editors are very pleased with what he has wrought here is just plain nuts: By Brian Hamilton, Chicago Tribune reporter 8:02 a.m. CST, November 4, 2012 SOUTH BEND, Ind. — Everett Golson dove underneath the pile, and the pile swallowed him whole. Even as noise then rolled through the place like an unending thunderclap, even as spine-starching evening air crackled with a cocktail of disbelief and glee, even as the pile lurched back and forth, the Notre Dame quarterback stayed disappeared." Etc. Link to the whole shebang: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-1104-notre-dame-pittsburgh-football--20121104,0,1739282.story Another highlight: "It was an exasperating day of the ordinary turned extraordinary and back, of title hopes for BCS No. 3 Notre Dame reduced from a 100-foot bonfire to smoldering ash and then sparked again."

I've got two 805s. Love 'em.