A Lark Ascending

I'm not wanting to be overcritical about this place. It's excellent, its regulars incredibly knowledgeable, committed, enthusiastic. I've learned so much from the contributors - both here and on the old Blue Note BB. I'm also not implying the membership is overly American. But the interest in US jazz (which you'll find as much in many Europeans as in Americans) is significantly stronger. Threads on European musicians don't get picked up as strongly as at AAJ. In amidst the luntaic fringe on AAJ there are some great people who talk with great knowledge of music from Europe. Why Graham Collier himself appeared recently! I'm not saying Organissimo should be like that...viva diversity...just that its unhelpful to single out the childishness that will inevitably affect something as open as a bulletin board and then describe the entire board as becoming a 'kiddie jazz board.' Personally, I don't see the lunacy, that does spoil AAJ at times, as representative. When I think of AAJ I think of the disc from a saxophone player from Norway that arrived today or the one by a Belgian violinist currently winging its way to me that I'd have known nothing of without recommendations at AAJ. AAJ has its committed enthusiasts too!

Having recently returned from Sweden I was unusually affected by this. A very gentle and civilised country. This must have really hit them for six. Especially after the murder of Olof Palme in the 80s.

Very unfair. You appear to have forgotten the 'Banish _____' thread over here. Yes, there are some daft goings on on AAJ. But AAJ is also better at some things than this Forum. Organissimo has a extremely knowledgeable and intense set of regulars...but can come across like a gentleman's club. A little in-crowdy, dare I say? AAJ attracts a much wider range of people - largely because the name is likely to hook in those searching on 'Jazz.' It's why it gets more newbies. It's probably why it gets more 'trolls' (quaint term). I have a wide interest in jazz. If I want to find out about standard American centred jazz then this is the place. But AAJ attracts more posters interested in jazz from Europe and the UK, areas I'm particularly interested in. As far as I'm concerned AAJ and Organissimo complement one another. I'm glad they're both here.

'Back on Top' from about three years back was actually a very enjoyable record that I play alot. He's unlikely to produce anything world-shattering, but he may well still have the capacity to pull off enjoyable discs.

'Back on Top' from about three years back was actually a very enjoyable record that I play alot. He's unlikely to produce anything world-shattering, but he may well still have the capacity to pull off enjoyable discs.

Thanks for your very fair reaction. A model of expressing disappointment in a reasoned way. You've made me think twice about purchasing.

This seems to be getting universally ecstatic reviews. It's only been on in the UK since Monday. I very much look forward to picking it up this weekend.

AAJ has been out for the last few days. A chance to overtake them!

Another Rabih Abou-Khalil fan logs in!

Yes, thats exactly how I see it. It's interesting to compare this with the book trade. You can pick up a George Elliott or Melville for next to nothing with those very cheap imprints; yet go into most bookshops and its the new novel, invariably pricier even when discounted or 3-for-2-ed, that sell and hit the best seller lists. In that world people seem to be looking for something of their own time. When it comes to jazz there seems to have been an overwhelming failure to present the music as something vital for our own time. Those of us who love the thrill of the just released, just recorded know that great new music is out there. But that just isn't being communicated. I wonder how much of this is due to the fact that the big recording contracts have tended to go to musicians who are simply working within the tradition? If the new jazz on sale is Josh Redman or Roy Hargrove it can't be long before new listeners start to think, 'Well I can hear this all done much more cheaply by the people who started it.' I know I only give the Universal, Warners and Columbia adds a cursory glance these days. The newly recorded jazz that catches my imagination comes from elsewhere.

I suspect we're saying similar things!

I'm afraid you confused me Simon. I assumed you meant ALL jazz here. I now see you meant NEW jazz. There's probably more old jazz on sale than there's ever been. But the majors have given up on all but the most commercial in the new. Which is my point. The price drop at Universal is only good news if you are in the market for purchasing lots of back catalogue. It's going to make it harder for the wonderful little companies who continue to put out the new.

Funny way of showing it. The Complete Jack Johnson, Cellar Door.....

And yet there seem to be endless reissue programmes. Open any issue of Jazzwise or Jazz Review and you'll see huge adds for the latest reissues from Warners, Universal or Columbia. I'm not sure you bring out masses of new issues in order to clear stock. It just seems the majors have decided new jazz is too difficult to sell. But the old stuff still goes in heaps...and charged a little less may sell heaps more. After all, it's the youth market that's shrinking. The future of CD sales lies with we oldies. Very hard to sell Evan Parker to all but a fraction of that market; but it would appear the majors see potential for increasing the sales of the Coltranes and Fitzgeralds and Davis'. After all, these all now have reputations and visibility coming close to comparability with Jane Austin, Dickens or Hemmingway. They've got tradition on their side and widespread cultural acceptance. I suspect there are plenty of 30, 40, 50, 60 or 70 somethings curious for new musical experiences who might explore here. Universal etc can feed that very nicely with their vaults and minimum reissue costs. Cutting prices won't hurt them much at all. I suspects that's what all those 'sales' in HMV and Virgin are all about too. A few years back you'd only get pop records in such sales. The HMV in Leeds has these regularly with the jazz/classical/folk having a sales area all its own upstairs. If I was starting a record collection from scratch today I could buy an awful lot of excellent old recordings very cheaply. I wonder if I'd be able to see past them to the much more expensive (and as yet unvalidated by years of critical approval) issues on the smaller labels? Old jazz is with is for a long time to come. It seems it's going to be the small labels, dedicated internet sites and musicians who put out their own CDs that keep the new stuff alive.

Whilst the thought of cheaper CDs might seem a cause for rejoicing I think Chuck's point needs noting. A company like Universal has reduced its new issues down to a trickle (and if they're charging less I can't see them upping the amount the spend on developing new music); whereas its repackaging of the past grows continually. I suspect most of us rely on the smaller labels to hear new jazz. Given the choice between a Coltrane or Rollins 'classic' at $12 and a new recording at, say $15, the draw to the former will be still greater to anyone not setting out with a very clear intention. I feel a right whinger complaining about a drop in record prices, but...

Ron Matthewson was a fabulous bass player. He disappeared from view in the 80s - 'personal problems' I've been told. I saw him once backing Jimmy Guiffre in a half empty room in Nottingham. I've talked it up many times but one of my favourite records of all time was a record on Pye by the Ronnie Scott Quintet called 'Serious Gold.' Scott, Matthewson, Drew, Taylor (on acoustic and electric pianos) and the great Irish guitarist, Louis Stewart. This really should be out there on CD. A thrilling record. Another MIA with Taylor is 'On Loan With Gratitude', a quartet led by Stan Sulzmann (another underappreciated Brit). The saxophonist/flautist with Taylor (again on piano ans el-p...he was great on el-p), Tony Levin and Chris Laurence. Anyone with an interest in UK jazz should check out a couple of recent issues: Nikki Isles (p) - 'Veils' with Stan Sulzmann, Mike Outram (g), Mick Hutton (bs) and Anthony Michelli (d). Wonderfully memorable compositions and great playing. Liam Noble (p) - 'In the Meantime' with Chris Biscoe(saxes, cl), Stan Sulzmann(saxes+ fl), Mick Hutton (bs), Paul Clarvis (d). This is music from younger piano playing leaders who clearly know their John Taylor. A great source for UK CDs put out on minor labels is: http://www.jazzcds.co.uk/

Marvellous disc. Taylor toured with Johnson and Baron in the UK 18 months back at the time of his 60th birthday (there was a larger band on the bill too). Great concert in Sheffield. A player I've followed from the late 70s - a major figure on the UK scene and on countless sessions here. And at one stage virtually the ECM house pianist! He's about as far from the bluesy jazz pianist as you can get. He's never really been a 'name' which is sad because he's got a great breadth of musical activity. I can't imagine how many projects I've seen or heard him live or on radio, most of which have never got to disc. There's a new solo disc just out on Sketch records which I've yet to find. Taylor is especially striking in John Surman's absolutely stunning quartet (with John Marshall and Chris Laurence...now there's a band crying out for a live recording). Look out for him on Kenny Wheeler's discs too. And, if you don't know them, the various Azimuth discs and recordings with his former wife Norma Winstone are quite beautiful.

I did like their e-mail: Maybe mine was intended for back stage at the Old Vic.

There's a new Morrisey/Mullen compilation just out called 'Everything Must Change' (Sulphuric SUCCD006). I saw them once on a visit to a friend in Aberystwyth University, c.1974. Wasn't too keen at the time but would like to hear this stuff again.

Crossed response with David's much more precise one! Answers my postage querie too!

Be careful! If your order comes to over £18 customs can slap on a surcharge. Sometimes the stuff gets through, other times you can end up paying anxtra fiver at the post office. CD Universe is a very reliable (and fast) vendor. But I tend to ensure my order comes below £18. That means I rarely order more than one disc at a time. Can't recall if its £18 before or after postage!

Absolutely. Just like there are some voices (Neil's is one) who you just identify instantly so it is with the Young guitar. This can often make even his sloppier songs or arrangements interesting.

Again its a case of perspective - I've never been a great fan of loud, noisy guitar bands. What I love on 'Ragged Glory' is the sheer melodicism of Young's guitar style. I love it 'in spite of' the 'metal' element, not because of! I'm the same about Led Zeppelin and contemporary King Crimson!

I actually think the portrayal of Young is pretty accurate (as far as any of us can know). I read a different bio a few years back by Johnny Rogan. The same story came out - a man whose sudden changes of direction/mood left alot of disappointed and rejected people behind. I don't think there's any point going to him looking for a beautiful human being...go to Emmylou for that (in all senses!!!!). I love the CSN&Y records from the early 70s. Yes I can see their weaknesses (especially the Nash songs) but they strike my as rich and distinctive records that I still play 30 years after first hearing them. McDonough makes a big point of dismissing 'Deja Vu' apart from 'Helpless. I've always thought the latter one of Young'd more winsome moments - Crosby's 'Deja Vu' and Stills '4+20' strike me as much more interesting track. His dismissal of the 'endless jams' on 'Four Way Street' makes no sense whatsoever to me. The lengthy 'Carry On' and 'Southern Man' on that disc strike me as having some of the most structured and controlled jamming of that era in rock. He's also really hard on America (Horse with No Name). OK, a lightweight band but you'd think they were the Antichrist from his heavy putdown. Different ears, different responses. But I think McDonough has allowed his obsession to cloud his overall judgement. Good book, nonetheless, especially in the the sections up to the 80s.

Count me in the 'Ragged Glory' lovers stake. For me that one scales the 70s peaks. 'Tonight's the Night' is another great one. Very, very ragged with some very out of tune vocals in places but it really works. Torture, I'd imagine, to someone coming from a 'Harvest', 'Tapestry' and Fire and Rain' direction (as many did in the early/mid-70s). Not remotely shocking to anyone who's well versed in the free-jazz world! AfricaBrass, I've just read 'Shakey' too. A great read, though falls apart a bit at the end as biography gives way to 'What it's like to hang out with Neil...and his trains!' McDonough's enthusiasm for Young also leads him to adopt a rather irrational and partisan approach to CSN&Y. Stills and Crosby are castigated for excessive behaviour which he forgives in Young on the ground that it is some essential part of his artistic nature. Dual standards at work, I feel!