A Lark Ascending

Drop me in wherever you have a gap.

Care to run a pronounciation guide past us, Bev? Well I'm not Welsh so I'm pretty clueless. However, this might help. From http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/F49860?thread=216759 Just split it up into easy mouthfulls: Llan - fair - pwll - gwyn - gyll - go - gery - chwyrn - drobwll - llanty - silio - gogogoch. If a Welsh "ll" seems beyond you, substitute "thl", with the "th" bit very light. The "ch" is more or less roughly similar to a German or Scottish "ch". And a "w" is like "oo" in "foot". That gives us: thlan - fire - poothl - gwin - githl - go - gerry - chwirrn - droboothl - thlanty - silly-oh - gogogoch. For extra effect, mix a bit of "ch" in the end-of-syllable "ll"'s. Now this gives you a pronunciation which will probably make a Welshman wince (if he's being polite), but he'll know what (or where) you mean. And it sounds convincing to non-welshophones. I did say 'might'!

Yes and its 'Gloster', not 'Gl-ow!-chester'; 'War-ick', not 'War-wick'; Lem-ster, not 'Leo-min-ster'; and 'Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch', not 'That place in North Wales with the long name on the railway station sign'.

Two symphonies that may not be well known over the pond (they're not that well known here) are Malcolm Arnolds 2nd and 5th. Big hearted music with glorious tunes. The other symphonies are also marvellous - there's a very good Naxos box costing sixpence! I am, of course, assuming that Vaughan Williams, Walton and Elgar are included in the symphonic mainstream! If you don't know VW 3,5 or 6 , the two Elgars or Walton 1 rectify immediately. Vaughan Williams 5 is my desert island disc...everything I'd like England to be! Anyone with even the slightest interest in British classical music will find this a goldmine: http://www.musicweb.uk.net/british.htm

Debateable concept there...'whose time had passed'. The mandarins at the BBC wrote off a vast amount of music as being irrelevant to the the times in the 50s and 60s. People like Bax, Arnold, Alwyn and Rubbra found it hard to get a commission or a hearing because they wrote tonal music and didn't subscribe to the serial orthodoxy of the time. All have been rehabilitated in the last 20 years! I love the Nielsen Symphonies, especially number 3. In a way I consider them (along with Martinu) as part of the general repetoire rather than a by-way. Arthur Honegger's symphonies are also worth looking out for, another marginalised figure who seems to get performed more regularly in these less polarised musical times.

Another one I'm very fond of. Franz Schmidt's No. 4. Any lover of Mahler or the point when Schoenberg and Berg still had their feet largely in tonality will love this. A glorious piece of curdled late-Romanticism.

I have a couple of the Delos Piston discs. I'd really like to see his Symphonies out there in full alongside Harris and Schumann. With Naxos its looking possible.

I know what you mean. I spent a week in NYC a couple of years back and experienced just that. A cup of tepid water with a tea bag dunked in. Stuck to coffee after a couple of days.

There's also the 'Clueless' effect. "That's so not funny.' British teenagers now talk like Californians, without the accent (they're working on that!)! Some of these 'unnecessary' words - like, for all intensive purposes, basically - do serve a purpose. They give space in a sentence to think about what you're going to say next.

Now it's funny you should mention Bax, Hans. I was listening to a radio programme yesterday where David Lloyd-Jones was being interviewed about his just completed Bax cycle for Naxos. I have a few Bax discs but only one Symphony - the Fourth - which came out on Chandos in the very early days of CD. He's never been a favourite but that interview yesterday sparked my interest - the 2nd and 6th sound especially intriguing. Which in turn had me playing a Bax disc of tone poems, which in turn led me to play the Moeran which led to this thread! I think I'm going to try a couple of the Naxos Bax discs next week. If interested you can hear the interview above here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/classical/cdreview.shtml Click on 'Listen to the latest programme' and then click forward 2.15 hrs! A bit cumbersome but worth the listen. Bax was an intriguing character - he had some peripheral involvement with Irish Nationalism at the time of the 1916 Easter Rising. And he once got so infatuated with a dancer he followed her to Russia!

When it comes to classical music I have a particular liking for symphonies - all that orchestral colour yet without any voice getting too dominant (usually!). I also love the byways of the genre, often in preference to the highways. So, what less familiar symphonies would you recommend? Outside the Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn, Mahler, Shostakovitch etc that dominate the release schedules. Not an attempt to claim them as better or even underrated...just symphonies that have a particular resonance with you. For me: Symphony in G minor - EJ Moeran Moeran (1894-1950) was a British composer with a background partly in Norfolk, partly in Ireland. His Symphony was completed in 1937. This is music in the vein of Vaughan Williams, Walton and Sibelius. A wonderful first movement with a singing first subject and then one of those melodies in the second subject that just melts you (and will have expatriate Brits on the first plane home!). The second movement is a brooding, atmospheric piece of Sibeliana, sounding like fog swirling around a bleak landscape. A nice, crisp scherzo follows. The finale is one of those unresolved pieces that seemed to be prevelant in the 30s. I first heard this on a Boult recording for Lyrita in the late 70s and now use the Chandos recording by Vernon Handley and the Ulster Orchestra. A bit boomy like many Chandos recordings but nice nonetheless. There is, however, a relatively recent Naxos recording that got excellent reviews. At Naxos prices worth an experiment. Details and sound clips here: http://www.naxos.com/naxos/naxos_marco_polo.htm What are your out-of-the-way favourites?

Anyone for Scandanavian folk music?

Yes, you are right Simon. I'm being very hard on children!

I wish DD would start posting here. I miss his posts about freer styles and European jazz in particular, especially now that he isn't posting much on AAJ anymore. Absolutely. DD was one of the stars of AAJ in the early to mid part of the year. Very strong on avant-jazz but also on European jazz and music beyond jazz.

Yeah, I know, but I was serious about the keep posting part. I'm in a deeply personal "zone" of my own that I've cultivated over the years, and I'm not likely to go too far outside it without somebody pulling my coattails. Might as well be you! Oh, don't worry. Can't see myself stopping. I suspect I suffer from some some terrible compulsive behaviour disorder - Euro Jazz Syndrome (EJS) or something. Though be warned. I'm currently catching Ozzie Jazz Syndrome!

I know, JSngry. Only joking.

Can't say I havn't tried! One of those smiley things!

Thanks, Hans. Clifton's statement is impressive. I withdraw my worries about the administrators.

Jazzmoose, I'm not sure the place as a whole is patting itself on the back. There are a small group of 'children' who have got the upper hand at present, most of whom are going out of their way to get the boor's approval. They are the one's dancing on the leaver's grave. I think there might be a problem with one administrator who seemed to join in the 'fun.' They might need to rethink how they decide on administrators and just what their role is. The reasonable posters seem to have retired which explains the lack of activity of late. There is a fair bit of activity going on behind the scenes to try and find a way to deal with the problem. AAJ is different. It has 'jazz' in the title and is thus a first point of reference for anyone surfing. It gets a fair number of young and inexperienced people. Some are silly, some naive, most just curious and want to know a bit more. A place like Organissimo, should they stumble on it, would probably terrify them. I've stuck with AAJ because it has attracted more posters who share my interest in non-American jazz than this place. Sadly many of these seem to have backed off in recent weeks. Yes, it has become rather dull of late...it never seems to have recovered from the breakdown fully. I'm not suggesting everyone needs to rush over there in a rescue bid. Just that those who have found something of value there in the past might like to consider pitching in.

I have to say, Chris, I admire your restraint in response to the personal goading you received from the principal troublemaker on AAJ. He must have been a bit upset that you wouldn't bite.

I clearly made myself unclear with a careless spelling mistake. Compliment should have been complement, now corrected. I hope I don't sound too much like George W. or Tony in recommending a bit of support rather than isolationism. As I say, I really think Mike deserves it.

A three part documentary (30 minutes each) by Charles Shaar Murray started going out on BBC Radio 3 last night. Episode one can be heard for the next week here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/jazz/jazzfile.shtml Just click 'Listen to the Latest Programme' Playlist: Saturday 22 November 2003 18:00-18:30 Written and Presented by: Charles Shaar Murray Producer: Robert Abel Researcher: Steve Shepherd Contributors: Frank Zappa Don Preston Keyboard Player Bruce Fowler Trombonist George Duke Keyboard Player talk over the following tracks: Programme playlist ARTIST Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention TITLE Bebop Tango COMPOSER Frank Zappa ALBUM TITLE Roxy And Elsewhere LABEL Rykodisc CAT. NO. RCD 10520 ARTIST Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention TITLE King Kong COMPOSER Frank Zappa ALBUM TITLE Uncle Meat LABEL Rykodisc CAT. NO. RCD 10506/07 ARTIST Frank Zappa TITLE Heavy Duty Judy COMPOSER Frank Zappa ALBUM TITLE The Best Band You've Never Heard LABEL Rykodisc CAT. NO. CDDZAP 38 ARTIST The Channels TITLE The Closer You Are COMPOSER Lewis /Robinson ALBUM TITLE The Rock and Roll Explosion LABEL Rhino CAT. NO. R2 71 463 ARTIST Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention TITLE Invocation Of the Ritual COMPOSER Frank Zappa ALBUM TITLE Absolutely Free LABEL Rykodisc CAT. NO. RCD 10502 ARTIST Frank Zappa TITLE Peaches En Regalia COMPOSER Frank Zappa ALBUM TITLE Hot Rats LABEL Zappa Records CAT. NO. CD ZAP 2 ARTIST Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention TITLE The Grand Wazoo COMPOSER Frank Zappa ALBUM TITLE The Grand Wazoo LABEL Rykodisc CAT. NO. RCD 10517 ARTIST Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention TITLE RDNZL COMPOSER Frank Zappa ALBUM TITLE The Lost Episodes LABEL Rykodisc CAT. NO. RCD 40573 ARTIST Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention TITLE Inca Roads COMPOSER Frank Zappa ALBUM TITLE One Size Fits All LABEL Rykodisc CAT. NO. RCD 10521 ARTIST Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention TITLE Inca Roads COMPOSER Frank Zappa ALBUM TITLE One Size Fits All LABEL Rykodisc CAT. NO. RCD 10521 ARTIST Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention TITLE Inca Roads COMPOSER Frank Zappa ALBUM TITLE One Size Fits All LABEL Rykodisc CAT. NO. RCD 10521 ARTIST Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention TITLE Inca Roads COMPOSER Frank Zappa ALBUM TITLE One Size Fits All LABEL Rykodisc CAT. NO. RCD 10521 ARTIST Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention TITLE Inca Roads COMPOSER Frank Zappa ALBUM TITLE One Size Fits All LABEL Rykodisc CAT. NO. RCD 10521 ARTIST Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention TITLE Echidna's Arf (Of You) COMPOSER Frank Zappa ALBUM TITLE Roxy and Elsewhere LABEL Rykodisc CAT. NO. RCD 10520 ARTIST Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention TITLE Ian Underwood Whips It Out COMPOSER Frank Zappa ALBUM TITLE Uncle Meat LABEL Rykodisc CAT. NO. RCD 10506/07 ARTIST Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention TITLE King Kong COMPOSER Frank Zappa ALBUM TITLE Uncle Meat LABEL Rykodisc CAT. NO. RCD 10506/07 ARTIST Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention TITLE Don't You Ever COMPOSER Frank Zappa ALBUM TITLE Roxy and Elsewhere LABEL Rykodisc CAT. NO. RCD 10520

Anyone who has been over at AAJ in the last week will have seen a pretty ugly sight. The usual suspects seem to have gone nuts and a number of the regulars who go there for the music seem to have stepped aside as a result. I know Mike, who has had more than his fair share of worries of late, is concerned. AAJ at its best (about 6 months ago) has been a complement to Organissimo - not really a rival. I think it is in all our interests to have it as an alternative. It would be nice if people here who sometimes post there could give a bit of support. If you can find the time put in a few posts on the sane threads, start a few of your own. I'm not suggesting engaging the nuts. That only makes them worse. Just trying to swamp them with some of the decency that makes this board so successful. In the end we all stand to benefit. If the AAJ board closes they might move here! I'm putting in this suggestion without reference to Mike, incidentally. I just think he deserves a better board given all his work.

Only six cups! You lily-livered colonial. I bet you don't warm the pot either!

Be careful. There are people in the UK who would date the start of this process to a time that most of you will soon be commemorating with slap-up dinners! I'm with the 'let it evolve' side. Language is going to go its own way(s) however anyone tries to freeze it (a bit like jazz!). As long as it continues to communicate with breadth and nuance then I don't have a worry. There's a pressure group over here called something like the Campaign for Real English - every now and then they get on the wireless and I have to throw things at it. This get's dangerous in the car. A couple of years back the school examining boards in the UK were having fits about students writing their answers in mobile phone text! Today on the wireless there was something about requests that Scrabble include numbers to allow text message words to be used. I am sure this will provoke the usual flurry of irritation.