A Lark Ascending

He has been, and there's fine music there, but Finzi's setting of Wordsworth's "Intimations of Mortality" when it gets rip-roaring exuberant, seems ludicrous to me, the English massed-choirs tradition at its most square and gallumphing. Yes, 'square and gallumphing' is a perfect description of one of the weaknesses of a fair bit of English music, especially the choral stuff. Even RVW would fall foul of it at times, especially in some of his scherzos. It's a place where Britten really comes into his own - his music is much more lightly sprung, less dense. I've never really got on with 'Intimations' - Finzi works best for me in his songs and shorter orchestral pieces. This disc - expanded from 1 1/2 original LPs - has some lovely music: He usually sounds very English to me (probably for no other reason than the fact that his music is constantly used as a signal for English or Britishness by advertisers, political parties, TV producers etc). Where he differs from RVW, Holst or Howells, for example, is the lack of overt folk song or Tudor church music influence. The latter may be what is often associated with Englishness. Holst is a composer whose works should be much more widely know. Apart from 'The Planets' (a fabulous piece) he seems to get little attention. His music from the 20s and very early 30s is fascinating - much more spare with a strong neo-classical influence. I've played this disc endlessly over the years (first as an LP, then as an expanded CD):

I think I'd describe the earlier Bridge as more Victorian/Romantic; there's not much pastoralism there. You get a Debussy/Ravel influence in the 1910s in things like 'Summer'. But I'd agree Bridge came into his own after WWI - whether it was musical evolution or a reaction to the Great War is an unanswered question. The Cello Sonata is one of his most intriguing pieces; two movement written either side of the divide. In the first you can still hear the dense growth of Edwardian potted palms; in the second you're in a much more bracing, spare world. 'Oration' - almost a cello concerto - is one of the great reactions to the Great War.

I'm still exploring the classical music world, and my tastes are all over the place, so I'm not ready to call myself an "enthusiast" of anything just yet. Still, I know what I like, and this doesn't seem out of character with what you're after here. It's high on my wish list. Are you familiar with Arnold Cooke? The Jabez and the Devil Suite is terrific. That one I don't know but it is very much on my radar! In fact it was reading a short article in the March 'Gramophone' magazine about Britain's 'neglected composers' (where Cooke gets an enthusiastic mention) that ignited this thread. (Incidentally, bvy, in my book 'tastes are all over the place' is a good thing!)

Grace Williams is someone I've yet to listen to - there's some of her music on Lyrita. Arnold is an enthusiasm of mine too - the 2nd and 5th Symphonies especially. A really tragic figure, largely ignored for writing approachable (yet frequently harrowing) music at a time when serialism was mandatory to be critically accepted in the UK. There's a bio by Anthony Meredith and Paul Harris that makes uncomfortable reading - his psychological breakdowns and terrible behaviour to those close to him. Decca recently put out some fine box sets of his music - I have the set of the concertos. (There's a TV doc too from the same source as the recent RVW) Britten is amazing - I never really 'got' Wilfrid Owen until I heard the 'War Requiem'. The other operas are well worth exploring - I especially like 'Billy Budd', 'The Turn of the Screw', 'Death in Venice' and 'A Midsummer's Night's Dream'. Frank Bridge is someone I took to heart in the 70s after hearing the Charles Groves EMI disc with 'Enter Spring' and 'The Sea' on it - the latter rich and romantic, the former showing much more contemporary influences but with a gorgeous main processional melody. The Hickox series of Bridge works on Chandos is probably the easiest way to get this music - fine performances. I've never been able to get over something I read in a bio of John Ireland about him posting his laundry to someone! Bizarre! The ultimate impractical artist! However, some lovely stuff there too - I especially like his Piano Concerto. E.J. Moeran's 'Symphony in G' is one not to miss - very influenced by Sibelius but with some very 'English' moments. There's a good Naxos recording.

Around the time I started discovering jazz (mid-70s) I was also exploring classical (and folk, but that's another story). An almost 'Paul on the road to Damascus' scene one Sunday morning whilst being played a recording of Vaughan Williams' 5th Symphony/Tallis Fantasia set me off on a long obsession with 20thC English music. My real enthusiams lie between Elgar and Tippett and I love wandering down the byways that lead through people like Alwyn, Moeran, Arnold, Bax and many more. Britten, Delius, Holst, Bridge etc are major stopping points en route. Though I've been listening quite a bit to Byrd and Talllis of late and am listening at this minute to a disc of Judith Weir's music. I know this music has a cult following, one that has been nicely served in recent times by those record labels who realise that there is more to life than another Beethoven 5th - stand up Hyperion, Chandos, Naxos. Above all, all praise to Lyrita (currently enjoying a marvellous rebirth with new recordings and its full catalogue emerging on CD for the first time). When I first started listening it was still a bit of a guilty pleasure - too 'conservative', lyrical, nostalgic for most modernist ears. But it seems to be coming out of the shadows again. I make no claims for it re: importance, significance, position in the grand hierarchy of what's considered 'great'. It just moves me constantly. So, any other enthusiasts?

There was a version of John Rae's Celtic Feet with additional Hungarian musicians including fiddle and cimbalon. Now that I did see at Bath about 3 or 4 years back. It was recorded for the BBC.

I think I did. They played Bath one year at the Pavilion, didn't they? I'm not sure - it was an expensive 10 piece including Hungarian fiddle and cimbalon! Might have been a year I didn't get to Bath. Arnie also had a smaller band with some Hungarian influences that made the album 'Cold Cherry Soup'.

I don't know if you saw Arnie's previous project - Improvokation - exploring his Hungarian roots with a mix of UK and Hungarian musicians, Sidewinder. A real labour of love that was unjustly neglected. I saw the Cheltenham premiere - bought the CD and it has remained one of my most played. Anyway, they were selling it at the gig for £5. Jump for a copy! The new one is worth getting too - though I'd love to hear a live recording of the band. The studio CD has rather shorter tracks - live they stretched these out magnificently.

Go, Sidewinder!!!! Saw them last night in Nottingham and they were great (and all kudos to Eddie who did a workshop in a local school in the afternoon! Good man!). Great playing and soloing all round - and a really impressive, musical young drummer in Dave Smith. I'm not one for drum solos but his showpieces were some of the highlights of the evening. I saw Ambulance as a four piece at Appleby a few years back. They were good then but, my, how they've come on! Guardian review of the Ronnie Scott date here: http://music.guardian.co.uk/live/story/0,,...rticle_continue

You'll want to find this earlier album by the pair: I'd also recommend the quintet date they did at the same festival: Looking forward to seeing these two in April when they play locally. Incidentally, try and hear them outside of ECM. I think you'll hear something a little different - warmer, less serious.

Hi there! Stravinsky? Same as last time -- busy (de)composing. Seriously, I'm waiting anxiously for this to arrive from BMG: I'm trying to process some new Britten just now also. My son's voice teacher wants him to take a stab at Canticle II. There's a world of wonderment in Britten. I'm not all that familiar with the Canticles - must give them a listen again. As the weather improves get a copy of the 'Spring Symphony' (a choral/soloist piece)...and, even better, a marvellous piece by his teacher, Frank Bridge, called 'Enter Spring'. Playing those is a March/April ritual of mine.

Easy to understand, Kenny. I often find myself on sabbaticals in classical or folk music and wondering why I listen to jazz - though I return quite quickly! That sounds like a great radio show!

Hi bvy, Nice to see you. How's Stravinsky?

Andrea Keller is excellent. She's on this fantastic live 2CD on electric and acoustic piano, along with Jamie Oehlers. Up therewith the electric Dave Douglas of recent years, though treading wider stylistically: Paul Williamson - 'On the Surface, in the Core'.

My most recent Aussie record is this one: I'd also recommend hunting for this from a few years back: The 'Meeting of the Waters' record is up at e-music. Well worth exploring. In fact there are some excellent recordings there: http://www.emusic.com/browse/l/a/-dam/a/0-...00159039/0.html Allan Browne is interesting too. Plays in several styles, but one of his groups has an essentially 20s pre-swing feel...except that it goes other places that make it quite different to a revivalist band - Ornette Coleman for example. I've not heard anything quite like it. This record is marvellous:

Had a quick google - it was Oliver Lake he stood in for.

Clunky, I've pulled a very old Australian jazz thread to the top as a starting point.

Bringing this back up - five years old! Clunky was asking in the Italian thread. Since 2003 I've bought a fair bit of Aussie jazz, fired by some discs Kenny kindly had sent to me. Believe me, there is some corking stuff down there. My two favourites of recent times: Jazzhead records are very quick with delivery - and some of their stuff is on e-music. In fact use your e-music credits on these two small big band recordings: Wonderful!

Must be something in the water up there ! Yes, I'll second the comment that Kofi live is always a very good show. Especially if he's in a big band on baritone. Didn't he dep for someone in the World Saxophone Quartet a year or so back?

That Fresu 'Kind of Porgy and Bess' is lovely. Though my favourite Fresu record is the one he did with Rava, Gatto, Bollani and Enzo Pietropaoli at the Montreal Festival - 'Play Miles Davis'. A record that has the free-flowing feel of the mid-60s Miles band, even though the tunes chosen are mainly associated with Miles in the 50s. Enrico Rava played a thrilling concert at Cheltenham a few years back (on crutches!) - ended with a long, delicious version of 'Poinciana' that I never wanted to end - he even had us singing the theme! Strangely, he hasn't recorded this on CD - I had to buy a DVD to get a version, something I rarely buy. Looking forward to seeing Rava/Bollani when they play locally in April. If you get the chance to see Bollani, take it. Apart from the great music he's a great clown. He ends with a wonderful circus act where he gets the audience to shout out ten random tunes which he then weaves into a 5 minute improvisation. Vaudeville? Perhaps! But I love that refusal to be overserious.

Kofi is a fabulous player but I've been a bit disappointed with his two records, mainly because of the amount of soprano on them. He's a thrilling baritone player live. In recent years he's been doing sprawling concerts/sequences of concerts playing the complete Monk catalogue. Like Julian Siegal, he's a Nottingham lad.

Really sorry to read that, Lon. Puts all these board squabbles right into perspective. I hope you're finding some peace.

Just to deter you from being tempted, my set had a couple of problems: a) 'June' which lies at the end of one disc has never tracked properly on any CD player I've tried. I ended up buying a Classics disc with it on to add to my CD-R summary. b) When 'ripping' from the discs several tracks on a number of discs have not transferred properly on an older computer - my new one can handle them. Likely to be just my bad luck - but I wonder if the set was hurried out.

I'm trying to stay well away from commenting on the current turbulence. But I would like to make two comments: a) I've always found John Kelman fair and reasonable. Others may have experienced a different side, but he's never been like that with me. b) I don't know what planet I was on last year but I never even knew that Chris and John had been banned or that MG had stopped posting as a result. I remember Lon's posts about the main review section (argued strongly but hardly disruptive) but not the banning. I'd assumed all three had got bored and decided to focus elsewhere.

I've frequently read of the influence of Gonsalves on Tony Coe - listening to a fair few discs with the former playing of late, the influence is very, very clear. A sort of smearing, cloudy style - hard to put into words.