A Lark Ascending

Quite. As it is indifferent to thousands of other things. I don't see why it should be otherwise. Metheny is falling into the time honoured trap of the middle-aged of believing that only he can see what is of value, that the world as a whole has lost the plot. Last-Roman-as-the barbarians-swarm-across-the-Rhine Syndrome. At a meeting over the weekend I was reminded of this thread (and many others on bulletin boards) whilst reading the comments of one Alvarus, a ninth-century cleric in Córdoba, who grumbled about the way that young Christian men could barely write decent Latin, yet were besotted by Arabic poetry. The era he was living in is now regarded as one of the jewels of medieval culture.

Just noticed this on Dusty Groove: http://www.dustygroove.com/item.php?id=fx9...p;ref=index.php

Same here from 5ish to 6. Then a golden evening!!!!

With a twist.

It be glowerin'. A wettin' be a-comin'.

A variation on 'let them eat cake': http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/07/01/royal.wine/

After bemoaning the lack of rain here yesterday morning I went and filled the ponds and put the washing out. Worked a treat! The heavens opened in a wonderful downpour that instantly filled two water butts! Beautiful summer's evening followed.

I think you must be hogging all the rain in the west, MG. We're getting the glowering clouds and lots of wind but very little rain. My larger pond is well down. We had a good drenching around Whit week, a pathetic bit of drizzle last week and a reasonable splashing last Thursday (but not enough to fill the pond back up), but that's it! I'm thinking of organising a school trip to Worksop - that always guarantees rain!

Good luck, papsrus, with the quitting. I've never smoked - don't know if it was fear of my father finding out or just a natural inclination to avoid doing things that made you hip. I did quit chocolate cold turkey seven years back (you only have to try chocolate cold turkey once and you'll never eat chocolate or turkey again!). I'm always saddened when I see wonderful kids I teach or have taught out and about 'with a fag on'. Part of the rituals of growing up for many, I know, but if only we could persuade them otherwise. The lure of the image of casually puffing the cigarette seems to overcome all the science we can throw at them.

I've never considered Zep to be heavy metal, but other than that I totally agree with your post. To me there is a vast difference between hard rock & heavy metal. I'm using the term very loosely. At the time blues-rock was very much the norm in UK rock at least. What caught my ear were the acoustic contrasts and - increasingly - the folky side. I had a very brief flirtation with 'hard rock' c.1970 but quickly moved off to the folkier, jazzier, more classically influenced stuff. But I always kept a liking for LZ, because there was that light and shade. I suspect from this distance it might be hard to hear past the thunderous heavy rock.

Led Zeppelin did a bit more than rework Willie Dixon. Just as Charlie Parker did a bit more than rework Jerome Kern or George Gershwin; and as Vaughan Williams did a bit more than rework Tudor church music and English folk song. I suspect if I heard them now for the first time I'd have absolutely no interest. But at the time they were a sound to behear; and I retain an affection for them, even if I generally find heavy metal more than a bit plodding.

Well, maybe its just that the virtuosity that you seek is not so much lacking as less projected. The great player stepping up into the spotlight for a solo (with or without a bow!) ceased to be acceptable from the late 70s; but that does not mean that there's not some virtuosic playing going on in support of the overall music. There's perhaps less overt grandstanding (except, perhaps in metal). I was a big King Crimson fan in the early to mid-70s. When I listened to the Discipline band in the early 80s I just didn't get it. Fripp seemed to have stopped playing. And it was interesting that later on he even cut out what I thought of as one of the great Fripp moments, the short solo on Matte Kudasai. Much much later (late 90s) I tried again and the Discipline era made sense and I could hear that despite the lack of up front soloing there was a lot going on in the textures. If the surface interested me I'm sure I could find plenty of virtuosity in contemporary playing. We all have to learn that each of us can only ever see a small part of the whole. It's a grave mistake to assume that the parts we can't see are not of value.

In terms of what I like to listen to, I sympathise. I was never a huge Capton fan though I like some of his music; but I do like long, well played solos. Young and Stills sparing on 'Four Way Street' still thrill me. But I think you miss a vital point. Long solos were written out of rock by punk. Although a lot of what was condemned then has returned (many rock musicians who started in punk became stadium fillers), the long solo remains a big no-no. I may not like that; you may not like that. But it's how things are. Rock music is now judged by other standards. Rock music hasn't gone wrong; it's just changed. ************ Something else to float - and I'm open to being corrected on this. It's my impression (and I'm talking gut-reaction here) that rock in the 60s to 70s drew from a wide range of influences outside of rock - blues, jazz, folk, even classical. And that sort of rock, although it might not have made much of an impact on the singles charts, had healthy album sales. In the last twenty years or so rock seems to have largely drawn from other rock, earlier rock. That's certainly the impression I get from the more popluar rock music I half-hear. Maybe things are different in the indie sphere. As I say, more exploratory thoughts than a statement of fact. And not an attempt to judge relative quality - though it might explain why I find little of nourishment in it.

I wouldn't make the same choices but I'm with you in spirit. Those of us who obsess on music worry far too much that what we like must also be 'important' or 'significant'.

"Sabbath rool; Tull are crap."* *inscription found on a wall fragment from an excavation of an early 1970s site.

Four years ago when this thread first started I mentioned Phil Robson. He's gone from strength to strength - I've seen him twice this year, once in a quartet with Dave Liebman, once in a trio matched with string quartet. Seems to play in any context from jazz-rock through free-form improvising to the BBC Big Band! Seek these on e-music for the breadth of his style - the first conventional jazz guitar a la Jim Hall, the second simply the most convincing jazz-rock record I've heard in years...jazz-rock that takes flight rather than plods. Edit: Just noticed two Robson discs appear on e-music today - one the strings project mentioned above; the other a disc by his partner, Christine Tobin. He's always been a very sympathetic player on her discs:

That's how I see it too. I gave up on rock c. 1976-8 (punk killed my interest) but I still love the rock I cut my teeth on the late 60s/early 70s (even the not so good or rather twee records!). I find the four-square beat of rock off-putting now - it was always there but seems to be much more up front now. I also don't care for the way that all the spaces get filled in, often with a synth. But that's just me; to others it's a great appeal and 70s bands sound limp by comparison. I don't worry - there's so much music in so many different genres out there to keep me interested for the rest of my life.

I spent the first half-century of my life browsing in record shops. I kicked the habit two or three years back (thank you, internet!). A couple of weeks back I was in London and spent a couple of hours around Oxford Street - I popped into Rays, HMV and Zavvi (formerly Virgin). In each case I got bored after 15 minutes and gave up looking (not because of the stock...still seemed plenty there...but the whole process tired me! I am a reformed man! [Now where's that amazon bill?]

Anyone remember 'The Krypton Factor'? "You have 3 minutes...starting...NOW....!!!!"

I can see that. Most misbehaviour in a classroom is just bad behviour - kids wanting to show off, kids who've never had clear boundaries etc. But some behave badly because of the way they are wired and some because they've lived through endless trauma and have not been effectively socialised. I'm sure that's true in the cultural world too.

No-one is expecting all musicians to be 'good boys' - as has been said above, musicians reflect humanity in general and will have the same mix. I might despise some of Wagner's ideas (and feel uncomfortable about the use put to his music by some admirers) but I can compartmentalise (as Daniel Barenboim can) and be drawn into the beauty of the music and the pull of the drama. But there is a viewpoint - born out of 19thC Romanticism - that musicians (and others who anoint themselves as 'artists') can be excused such behaviour. That they are outside of the norms of the community, need to operate without it's constraints, can't make their 'art' otherwise (in that respect someone like Kerouac is a typical Romantic). There's an implication that a true 'artist' is only interesting when unshackled from the requirements of working within the mores of the community. And at some point this can turn to a lionising of the bad behaviour - at a populist level you see this in the way that misbehaviour of celebrities is celebrated (the press might appear to be outraged by Amy Winehouse but they're lapping up yet another demonstration of the high performing outsider). You get this everywhere from the playground (the naughty boy who soon gets a handful of acolytes saying what a cool guy he is, trying to bask in his notoriety) to the bulletin board! In the end most of us are going to continue to listen to engaging music, no matter who a person shot or abused. I just tend to fall on the side of needing to say 'But no matter how great the music, that behaviour was wrong' rather than 'He was an artist, he has to be excused these things'. At the same time I'm not going to heep vast praise on the musician who works in schools, gives to charity, addresses vital social issues yet makes dull music. But when the latter makes fantastic music, whilst working inside society, aware of communal obligations, then he or she will get my enthusiasm. When a kid behaves badly it makes sense to reprimand them for the bad thing they've done, not yell at them for being a bad person. With bad boy musicians the same is true - separate the specific behaviour from the overall person.

I was struck by the phrase 'has a home on...'

'The Sacred Willow' got my curious about the Franco-Vietminh War.

Famous people from or living on the Isle of Man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famous_reside...the_Isle_of_Man Includes Rick Wakeman...I don't recall "Isle of Man: the Opera on Ice".

I've never been. I'd imagine that if you are into walking there's some fine coastal walks and plenty of birdlife. I don't know if it's still the case but Douglas (the main town) used to be a destination where Dubliners went for a wild weekend! I don't know how long you're over for but you might find it a bit limiting after a few days. Consider taking in Dublin as well. As well as the city there's some amazing countryside and sites of interest within an hour's drive. I'm sure you've found this: http://www.visitisleofman.com/