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Everything posted by A Lark Ascending
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This Tim Berne album reminds me of The Soft Machine: Tremendous record. Off-kilter electric jazz.
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A visual representation of the O Board (put me down for the diversity in threads too).
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Henley next? Even further: "In December new maps from the Environment Agency identified No 10 Downing Street as one of the 5m properties now at risk of flooding" (Today's Guardian). It's already full of drips. Henley next? I think they'd know how to cope: "Oh, I say. Jolly spiffing rowing weather. Get Jeeves to bring the champers.'
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'Classical' music from the last 50 years (or so)
A Lark Ascending replied to A Lark Ascending's topic in Classical Discussion
I like to believe I have a different interpretation. -
'Classical' music from the last 50 years (or so)
A Lark Ascending replied to A Lark Ascending's topic in Classical Discussion
I don't have any problem with 'meaning' where it is made explicit (or even handled with some ambiguity) by the composer via libretto, titles or accompanying notes. If the composer intended it thus then it is only right to take note. 'Meaning' read onto it by other observers - well, in some cases it can convince. Often, however, I feel the 'interpretation' (using the word to mean what the piece means rather than how it is performed) is more about the observer than the composer. If you go back to my initial comments on Weinberg I made quite clear that I was not suggesting him as a 'great' composer and felt he seemed to be derivative of Shostakovich (though the counter-narrative you mention is interesting). I certainly don't find him as compelling as Shostakovich. But then I don't have a need to narrow down to only the most compelling. If I like music in a particular style/genre/whatever then I enjoy exploring the sidetracks as well as the main causeways. Thus all those second (or third, I'm not judging!) division English composers I enjoy. It's back to cathedrals and country churches. Much as I like a trip round Salisbury I think I prefer stumbling upon a little gem on a country walk. I'd never try to big it up as better than Salisbury. But there's something very pleasurable about those little discoveries in an area of music you've come to enjoy. That is where Weinberg sits for me. [Just read the Ross piece. Very interesting. Though I think you misinterpret (sorry!) him on the level of inspiration in Weinberg's music. He doesn't comment on the 'less than inspired nature of many works' but actually says "Even when Weinberg’s music is less inspired, it is expertly made, and you get the feeling that he could meet any challenge. Like many Soviet composers, he earned a living from film scores, cartoon scores, and circus pieces." I take that as a reference to the suites like 'The Golden Key' ballet suite that I mentioned earlier - Shostakovich did much the same in things like the jazz suites.] -
'Classical' music from the last 50 years (or so)
A Lark Ascending replied to A Lark Ascending's topic in Classical Discussion
Review-speak. Orwell would have understood. -
'Classical' music from the last 50 years (or so)
A Lark Ascending replied to A Lark Ascending's topic in Classical Discussion
Just listened again to this which sounded as delightful as I remember it: Couple of reviews here: http://www.classicalmusicsentinel.com/THRONE/throne-weinberg-concertos.html http://www.classical.net/music/recs/reviews/c/cha05064a.php First is glowing, the second more even handed on strengths and weaknesses. Neither seems to show any concern about the quality of 'interpretation'. Yes, they are just 'interpretations' themselves and could have got it all 'wrong'. Had to smile at this line: So all is well. -
'Classical' music from the last 50 years (or so)
A Lark Ascending replied to A Lark Ascending's topic in Classical Discussion
Mahler was hardly contemporary in the 1960s. And Bernstein was only part of the story of his growing popularity at that time. But yes, having conductors prepared to champion the new alongside the old can only be good. And there are a fair few who do - though even they fall victim to 'who's best?' syndrome. I see Rattle and Salonen regularly rubbished. Good god, Rattle even did an entire series on 20thC music - looks a bit old now, but at least he tried to present the music to a wider audience rather than leave it the preserve of an elite. I suspect the problem is the music, not the conductor. Which is not a comment on the quality of the music; merely that much contemporary music does not have the structures or signposts that most people look for in music. When it does (Adams, Glass) - howls of protest from the self-anointed guardians of the portals of culture. -
'Classical' music from the last 50 years (or so)
A Lark Ascending replied to A Lark Ascending's topic in Classical Discussion
The philosophy of modern music has little traction outside of academia. Angels dancing on the heads of pins. Most of us are listening to music for enjoyment, not to whet our sense of self-importance. As long is we stick with prog-rock, Blue Note titles or Miles Davis we're safe. But show the slightest interest in music that academia likes to keep for itself and watch the bristles rise. -
'Classical' music from the last 50 years (or so)
A Lark Ascending replied to A Lark Ascending's topic in Classical Discussion
No, I hate 'Art' (luvvie!). Not even heard of Dahlhaus; I did read something by Adorno on Sibelius some time back which struck me as self aggrandising tosh. Reminded me of Marxist historians who try and twist and stretch the past so it can be squashed into a Marxist historical framework. He struck me as one of those critics who take more delight in how hard he is to please than in actually engaging (in an emotional sense) with the music. Unfortunately some non-academics have a bad habit of adopting that posture too - identifying being a 'connoisseur' with having oh-so-rarefied tastes. I think you are projecting what you want to hear with that. You already have your judgement. Now you are going listen to the music in order to hear what your judgement has already told you. Like my second car mechanic. -
Litigation for plagiarism to follow: One of those smiley faces.
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Another point here. Having my car serviced is about judgement. The mechanic judges whether I need new break pads or not. Now, one mechanic might consult the criteria carefully and then reach a 'judgement' as to how close my break pads are to the legal limit or for safety and advise me after balancing up the evidence. Another might pay scant attention to the evidence and judge that I need new break pads because that way he'll make some money. In my experience most 'judgement' about music falls into the latter category - it tends to be based on preconception, preference etc; rather than being a careful analysis based on objective criteria. Which is all well and good in such a subjective area as musical value. The problem lies when the latter approach is given the veneer of the former. We might 'feel' that more people should be listening to Evan Parker than Miles Davis upgrades; but where is the evidential base that renders that 'judgement' any more than a subjective desire?
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Modern/Avant New Releases: A running thread
A Lark Ascending replied to colinmce's topic in New Releases
Believe it or not, I actually have a turntable! Bought it 10 years back after my Rega gave up the ghost. A cheap Pro-ject thing (that sounds better than anything I owned before the Rega) that gets used for playing old LPs (usually to CD-r them). No danger of this being more than a functional necessity. I was traumatised by vinyl - I still hear the skips in the discs I once had on vinyl and now have in digital form! -
I'm not rebuking his list. As I said originally, I'm very fond of many on that list. And I think Steve does a fine job in championing those musicians - he influences me. But this thread is about a particular set of recordings from the past; Steve's initial point about wishing people were more interested in living musicians than the recording in question strikes me as a bit irrelevant. I too wish people were more interested in living musicians (especially in the classical field!!!); but I'm not sure ticking people off for listening to old records rather than new will win many converts (any more than my bashing of dead maestro fetishism stops people from buying Schnabel records). That the musicians on that list garner far less interest than Miles Davis or Grant Green is undoubtedly true. That they are deserving of attention - well of those I know, I'd wholeheartedly agree. But there's an elephant in the room. Why are they not as well known? I don't think it's down to lack of exposure or retromania alone. The nature of the music that most of them play lies well outside the traditional tonal approaches that most people find enjoyable. Telling people they ought to listen to Evan Parker because he's good for you isn't going to make a difference. But I suspect this debate belongs in another thread. Why won't people listen to avant garde (or whatever you want to call it) music? [The 'ranking' part refers to the use of 'great' and 'greatest' in the post]
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'Classical' music from the last 50 years (or so)
A Lark Ascending replied to A Lark Ascending's topic in Classical Discussion
I suspect the Soviet authorities destroyed an awful lot of other music that you wouldn't consider 'meaningful'. Hyperion and Chandos are probably recording it as we speak. What a totalitarian regime considers bound to suppress has no correlation with the actual 'worth' of what is being suppressed. On the issue of 'meaning' in music, I'm with Stravinsky. Unless it has a specific text or label I'd say it stands or falls by how it 'sounds' (and that word contains a lot of things), regardless of the composer's intent. To me Strauss' 'Ein Heldenleben' is a marvellous piece of music (trying not to use the word 'great' there), in spite of the signalled programme. And, of course, we constantly project our own meanings onto music, regardless of the composer's intent. As a non-believer I have no empathy with the 'meaning' that almost certainly inspired music with a religious connection like the B-minor Mass or Bruckner's symphonies. It's never stopped me finding listening to those pieces to be one of the most fulfilling parts of life. You might argue that because I don't have faith I can't really 'get it'. I'd disagree. Takes me years to get my head round a composer (more so now when I can afford to buy more music than is sensible; back in the days when music was rationed I'd spend much more time replaying individual discs immediately). Shostakovich escaped me for 10-15 years before he clicked (I'm not talking about 'understanding', just evoking an emotional response). So I can't claim any expertise over Weinberg. But, having listened to the Shostakovich symphonies many times over the years (4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 15 stand out for me - 7 is probably my favourite, 10 the most perfectly balanced [i've just done some ranking!]) it is nice to hear other music in that world. When I have a favourite, I'll let you know. Though I've played this one a lot: I'm currently listening to (yes, I'm typing as well; not sitting to attention with a score, scowling over my pince-nez): A first listen but I'd recommend going over to Spotify and trying the slow movement of 12. It's completely in the mould of one of those spare, chilling Shostakovich adagios; even down to the tuned percussion segue into the final, warmer final movement. The Suite, as you'd imagine, is a frothier affair, similar to Shostakovich's more functional theatre or cinema music. What does it mean? God only knows. But it's a very pleasurable way to spend a Sunday morning before hitting the books. I ask no more of music. -
'Classical' music from the last 50 years (or so)
A Lark Ascending replied to A Lark Ascending's topic in Classical Discussion
What is the meaning of Shostakovich 8? Apparently, once Christianity has finally died a death in Britain there are plans to demolish all the churches, abbeys and cathedrals apart from a handful. After all, why bother visiting a little medieval church in Lincolnshire when it has nothing like the meaning of Salisbury or York Minster. No doubt they'll rank them first, however. Then use the metadata to organise the cull. -
Too late. I've already bought them all already (with the exception of the Bowens - currently exploring them now). Though, being one of those 'record collectors' you are endlessly contemptuous of, I suspect you already knew that.
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Oh, I get it. I just don't line up behind your choices and projections.
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'Classical' music from the last 50 years (or so)
A Lark Ascending replied to A Lark Ascending's topic in Classical Discussion
What 'meaning' would that be? That suggested by the titles? Or the 'alternative' meaning suggested from 'Testimony' onwards? Although it's hard not to think of those things when listening to Shostakovich, in the end it's the pure sound of the music that keeps me coming back rather than any 'meaning'. The biggest difference I'd suggest between Shostakovich and Weinberg is that the former seemed to fashion a very distinctive and personal sound world, despite being trapped in his desire to explore by what was allowed. Weinberg seems to take up that sound world and explore it further. In a world where only the original counts Weinberg is not going to get much credit (some would dismiss Shostakovich too); but I've always felt that the 'avant' desire to pioneer the untrod prairies actually leaves vast swathes of land behind, worthy of further exploration even though it might not be on the frontier. Let's hear it for the cattlemen and homesteaders; not just Lewis and Clark. -
Modern/Avant New Releases: A running thread
A Lark Ascending replied to colinmce's topic in New Releases
You are responsible for my first vinyl order in a quarter of a century, Mark! Much as I hate the whole 'vinyl only' exclusivity, my Keith Tippett fixation would not let this pass! Will go straight to CD-R on arrival. Thanks for bringing it up. -
Well, I'd say that the path to enlightenment that will take you up the next mountain (having hopefully smashed the tablets of stone and recycled them for something useful) is to lose all the 'who is best?' and 'who is greatest?' stuff. My, we do like to rank! I've enjoyed some of those names on Steve's list for a long time; dabbled in a few; and know very little about most. I'm always all ears for recommendations of the 'I really enjoyed this because...' variety - I think it was Steve's enthusiasm for some Italian jazz ten years ago that sent me off down that very lucrative path. I'm less influenced when I'm told I ought to be listening to X rather than Y. I'm stubborn enough to want to listen to Y (old 70s Miles records) as well as explore X (one from the list). The whole ranking thing reminds me of those endless 'top 20' lists they fill up TV and magazines with now. Might be a bit of fun but ultimately the rankings are meaningless. Recommend me things that you enjoyed or were excited by or that really intrigued you or were so puzzling you just had to listen again. Not because the performer in question is the 'greatest' this or that.
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Very windy and wet from early afternoon here though it's calmed now. But we've nothing like this: Keep expecting Kevin Costner to pop up. Or Memphis Minnie. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26106290
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'Classical' music from the last 50 years (or so)
A Lark Ascending replied to A Lark Ascending's topic in Classical Discussion
Lots of Weinberg on Naxos and Chandos - between them they seem to be recording all the symphonies. Same sound world as Shosty but I really like them. Probably too tame for hard core avant-gardistas. -
Dawlish Meanwhile, the pillocks continue to show off, oblivious to the safety of those who will have to turn out if they get into trouble. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26095937
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Still calm here. But looks like it might get lively: Fortunately Our Saviour is at hand: When I was at uni, silver-spoon public school types were known as the 'green welly brigade'. Seems like fashions have not changed. Maybe Michael Gove will issue every family with sets of green wellies in his crusade to make all schools like public schools.