king ubu

I don't think the Abraxas releases are needle drops, it's the GetBack ones (sub-licensed to GetBack by Abraxas, I think). couw states above that the Abraxas 20min CD of "Bells" is not a needle drop, and I think my Abraxas "Spiritual Unity" (and "Why Not" by M. Brown) aren't needle drops, either. So it's probably only those GetBack mini LPs that are needle drops.

In other words, jazz is overrated? definitely, didn't you know? it's not even good entertainment!

Oh hellyeah! The Farlow Concert Jazz Band Mosaic is da shit! I had his "Swingin' Guitar" and the self-titled Elite Edition discs before and love Costa a lot. The Mosaic is constantly great, the session with some west coast horns in is very good, too. I think this is one of the most consistent Mosaics - a great body of work, great tune choices, terrific guitar playing, very good backing bands, really one to play from beginning to end in one long go! The Norvo Trio w/Farlow & Mingus sides are great, too - those are all I have, I think there'd be some post-Minugs ones, too... some quite crazy stuff on those trio sides! This is one of the weirdest covers ever for a jazz release, methinks - only ever saw it on the web, alas:

Not me... I got into it via - in chronological order: Bob Dylan - electric Miles / Abdullah Ibrahim - Miles/Monk/Trane/Mingus - 50s/60s jazz - bop (40s, Bird, Bud etc) / free jazz, avantgarde, free improv / "old" jazz (Duke, Basie, Lunceford, Hodges, Hawkins, Henderson etc.) (all at the same time, roughly, all still being explored now). It's rather this kind of jazz that makes me occasionally get something by Aretha or Otis Redding or Booker T. But before getting into jazz at all (maybe around the time I got into my first electric Miles) I listened to lots of funk (Crusaders, Tower of Power, Larry Graham, Bootsy etc.) - so maybe in the end you're kind of right, but I took a few turns to arrive there...

that's the one I have. It's a clear CD without any text on it. It says Abraxas/ESP-Disk (Italy). No, I meant the Calibre issue (those are the ones where the jewel cases are packed in a red cardboard box with a small cover reproduction on front - yet another of ESP's licencees, I think (not from Italy but I think from the Netherlands). my Bells is not a needle drop. It has a black cover with orange print and there was a wrap around that I put in a box somewhere. I also have NYE&EC and Spirits Rejoice from the same Abraxas series. Thanks! So these expensive GetBack needle drops (only ones I could find when I wanted these Aylers - that was before my internet CD buying days) are indeed the worst option... I assume I need to get some other versions, eventually. That confirms my rating... at least as far as Abraxas vs. GetBack is concerned.

I am sorry, but "Brothers 4" just isn't as grabbing as many other similar discs I have! As I said, I enjoy greatly the Scotts (no first name mentioned, I'll mix them up again anway... ah, shucks, it's Shirley, of course!!!), then I like the Jenning/McDuff assedjazz a lot, also McDuff's "Soulful Drums" twofer. Houston Person's "Trust in Me" and "Broken Windows" twofers I both don't like that much (they're ok, but not more, I think). Red Holloway's assedjazz has a few good spots (but I like him much better on "Soulful Drums"). The other Stitts I still need to explore (Stitt/Patterson Vol. 2 & the Boss Men, Soul People with Booger, Goin' Down Slow, Assedjazz). Anyway, you might need to know that I also play lots of free/avant stuff, bop/hardbop, older stuff etc, and that this greazy stuff is far from my favourite kind of jazz - it's for me just one of many, many things I enjoy, and I only rather recently got into it (by way, MG might be interested to hear that, of some Blue Notes, mainly all those Lou Donaldson's from the 60s, Mozambique, Understanding, etc).

Need to borrow an axe?

that's the one I have. It's a clear CD without any text on it. It says Abraxas/ESP-Disk (Italy). No, I meant the Calibre issue (those are the ones where the jewel cases are packed in a red cardboard box with a small cover reproduction on front - yet another of ESP's licencees, I think (not from Italy but I think from the Netherlands). This one I meant: But is yours from vinyl, too, couw? They also did "Spiritual Unity" and "NY Eye and Ear Control" (as well as some non Ayler ESPs), and it seems these were much nicer editions than the Abraxas ones, which have minimal cover, and often no info about recording dates (except maybe on that sheet wrapped around the jewel case). Calibres: Abraxases: The NY E&E is actually not an Abraxas, but only came out as a GetBack mini LP, as far as I know (also previously on ZYX, as did the whole - or almost complete? - ESP catalogue). Not sure if "Bells" above is Abraxas or GetBack only with this cover (couw? same cover?). Pretty chaotic, but from my experience I would proceed like this: 1) get ESPs own new CDs if available [i'll need to get "Slugs" in this version], if not, then 2) try to find Calibre reissues (red cardboard things around jeweil cases) [i have "NY E&E" in such an edition], of you can't find, get 3) Abraxas jewel case [i have "Spiritual Unity" like this], if you can't find, get 4) ZYX (long gone, but you might find some used on in some local shops), and last, if you can't find any of the above, get 5) GetBack mini LPs (needle drops, limited, thus likely not an option, but no sleep to be lost because of these being gone... they were feghing expensive and cheaply produced) [i have "Bells/Prophecy" and "Spirits Rejoice" in this form] Now for sure not each album has appeared in all of these five forms, but that would be my rating in how to proceed. This same procedure is adoptable for other ESPs, too... I guess it's best just to hope that there'll be more of their own reissues. THe Marion Brown Quartet, for instance, is absolutely great, and it has more music, better sound (different speed, too, if compared to the Abraxas jewel case version), and great photos and new liners to offer, so these are definitely the best ones! (As a sidenote: Calibre and also the earlier ZYX versions had ample documentation of ESP in each booklet, nice, but the new ESP ones are still better....)

Thanks - since I don't regularly are in presence of a record player, I rarely read the vinyl corner... should change that, it seems.

just make sure you mentally add the Herbie Nichols and Dameron/Navarro sets to my 10 - otherwise you might be unaware of an important part of my personality

I think the alternate take on the Ayler tree was from Spiritual Unity, not Prophecy. That track appeared on the the first pressings of Spiritual Unity and one Japanese reissue. Should Bernard Stollman ever get around to doing his own box set, it should appear there. It wasn't on the last ESP reissue. You're right, I remembered that wrongly. Nate, the vinyl dub of "Bells/Prophecy" I have is on GetBack, which has licensed it from Abraxas or something. It's a mini LP package and says it's limited to 1000 (I have "Spirits Rejoice" in a like edition). Anyway, I wonder if the Abraxas jewel case version omitting "Bells" is also a needle drop? This is the edition I have: AMG Calibre (right, AMG spells it wrongly) had also done a "Bells" only, 20 minute CD.

That's good to hear, clem. But - contrary to my good memories of many over/under/whatever-rated BN threads which we've all been through numerous times, I cannot remember there having been a Roy DuNann thread... anyway, I'm no vinyl collector, so I shut up now and don't spoil your fun!

That's the one. "Apeshit" is an appropriate description! Dead on in your assessment of that set; this track makes it worth the cost of the set alone. I can still remember the first days after I got that set.... I kept playing that tune again and again, cranking up the volume!

That Burrell idea sounds great! I just got "All Day Long," have "All Night Long" from the 2001 sale in spring or summer, but I can't find it right now. The "Cats" album (with Trane, Sulieman and Flanagan) is excellent, too. The album with Jimmy Raney would fit also, I guess. Don't know that one. How abuot the one with Coltrane? Is that a jam session? I guess it was, but they did a bit more thinking than usual before starting to play... it's a beaut, for sure!

It's worth it; if you get it from ESP (or on the old Abraxas CD), you also get "Bells," which is a motherfucker... Isn't that part of the ESP box anyway? Just in case: the Ayler set includes another set from the same recording session - great stuff, of cousre! I think the Ayler tree that got sort of useless now that the HG box is out, included an alternate take from one cut on "Prophecy", which is not in the box. I have a vinyl dub CD (GetBack is the label, I think) of "Bells/Prophecy", need to upgrade that some day! The music is terrific, but I thought that (illegitimate) ESP box would include it.

Ohhhhh YES!!! it just so happened that I added some other irrelevant posts... alas I was sort of monologuing, which is only half as funny...

Thanks for clarifying!

I tend to respectfully disagree on the quantity vs. quality issue. If you look at it another way, you could say (take Jackie Mac as an example since he was on both labels) that Prestige did lots of throwaway jam/blowing albums, while Blue Note or Riverside had some kind of concept behind lots of albums (even if it was just the concept of pairing musician X with musician Y - they didn't just end up playing a bunch of blues tunes, as it often was the case on Prestige). I am not sure this leads somewhere, but I think a small label like Riverside/Jazzland can be just as important for reasons of documentation. Or take United Artists, not really a jazz label, but they did Thad Jones and Cecil Taylor and Benny Golson and Randy Weston...I just don't think that sheer quantity is what makes the difference. And just to make sure: I'm not saying the Prestige blowing concept was crap, I enjoy a lot of those albums!

The Riviera dates are fine - can't say anything about the impulse studio stuff though. Now that you have be box, make it next priority to fill in the gaps - I add a second, strong recommendation for "My Name is Albert Ayler" (Black Lion) - the version of Summertime is indeed quite something - One of the most touching pieces of music to be heard! The spirituals album is good, too ("Goin Home", also on Black Lion). About the Quartets with Cherry: I prefer "Hilversum" to "Vibrations" (on CD on Freedom). You should be able to get the Hilversum date by email from that Coppens guy - search for the Albert Ayler website and check there (in the news section, I assume - lots of good info is hidden there, the site is badly structured). Then, ther's a good live album of the strings band on hatOLOGY (Lörrach/Paris 1966) - get that one before it goes OOP, too (I have no idea how soon that will be)!

wasn't it up on the other site some seem to think one is not allowed to name here? or was that audio only? I think I have at least one 1967 DVD from there, but I'm at work and can't check right now...

reading Shirley for Rhoda i like them both a lot but i think i like the OJC of Scott/Turrentine "Blue Flames" even much better though it only has one album on it... It's just too much for me that both of these great organ ladies are called Scott, sorry... don't have "Blue Flames", but I have both "Trio Classics Vol. 1" and the Moodsville twofer of Scott just in trio, and they're great, too!

'cept you forgot about Riverside, which did a heck of a job documenting Hardbop, too, and recording artists that were also on Blue Note, as well as giving young and then unknown artists an opportunity to release their music (Bill Evans, Cannonball, Wes Montgomery...)

MG, thanks for this lenghty write-up! One question: what do you mean by "material from unissued LPs"? I have recently gotten "At Large" and I thought it's a collection taken from several LPs? Should it read: LPs never reissued on CD in their entirety?

Oh, and yes please on Shelly Manne! Make a few boxes, one with nice liners and photos from the 5CD live session, one with the experimental stuff, one with the non-experimental studio stuff, then an expanded box from the Manne-Hole gig, etc. Oh, and all the Hamp Hawes Trio stuff would be great, too! One of the euro cheapo bootos have done a 2CD Complete Trio Sessions set, though...

Yusef Lateef? Maybe a box covering his burst in 1957? I assume that's unlikely as Savoy and Verve don't mix with Prestige... but a Prestige/Riverside box might be great, too, or just a Riverside one also. But then they've all been out as OJCs. Benny Golson? Not sure Pepper's Contemporary stuff needs to be boxed, but I'd likely buy it, too. The non-Jaws Griff stuff sounds like a sound idea! I'd rather get that than a Griff/Jaws box, I think. And maybe a nice package of Cannonball's Japan and Paris gigs, both of which are spread over two CDs, each, I think? A Cannonball Riverside package might be great, anyway! Although with several great albums now on Capitol again, quite a junk of it would be missing... An Art Farmer or Farmer/Gryce set would be great, too. A Jackie Mac set I'd definitely get! Would adding the sideman appearances mean blowing it up to a huge one? If yes, don't add them... there'd be plenty of fine leader stuff, I assume (I'm still largely unfamiliar with his Prestige recordings).