king ubu

how 'bout "Tibufa", to be found here:

While I agree that it would be wrong to buy the Mingus and Parker/Gillespie Uptown clones, I don't really see the problem with purchasing the Massey Hall or Horace. It's been over 50 years for both.' Guy Why differentiate the Mingus and Parker/Gillespie CDs? I think I know why - Chuck's here and considered a friend. But they're well beyond the 50 year EU term, so if that's the only criteria, buy 'em. I can see if people say, "I won't buy the Mingus and Parker/Gillespie CDs because I want Chuck Nessa's label to succeed." But if you think the 50 year rule is fine for Horace Silver and the Quintet, then it's fine for these as well. Why not screw Chuck's label out of some return on investment too? As never pointed out, I started this thread not to have yet another one of these never-ending discussions, but now you started it, let me say something, too... I don't agree about Silver or The Quintet - as long as there's a legit product around, I'll buy that one. In the end, if BN wouldn't release the Silver, Definitive couldn't rip it... It's in all our interest that the actual owning company does release their stuff. I don't care if the 50 years have gone by or not, if there's both an original and a rip-off, it's perfectly clear which route to go, for me. And Kevin, not everyone has been around to buy all these kinds of original issues and reissues decades ago. Also they're not everywhere as easily found as they seem to in parts of the US. And a side note on Koch: they long ago ceased to release anything, no? Their distribution over here has been inexistant, the four or five discs of them I got are nice, but all lucky scores. I'd much prefer them, for instance, over Collectables reissues of the same albums, but since they're not available, what choice does one have? Ok, we don't have no fucking right to hear it all, but omigod this is pathetic!

I beg your pardon, sir? Was that directed at me? Thanks for the Carr recommendations, I'll look for some of these Mann discs!

Something I've been wondering about: is the Lennie Niehaus series a straight rip-off of the OJC Limited Edition CDs, or how do they compare? I don't have any of either series, but I've had them on the radar (and I did play those jazz etudes of Niehaus' years ago...)

Well, that's pretty normal for us Swiss... Voting for women (national): 1971 Becoming member of the UN: 2002 member of EU: not yet...

Thanks, I have seen some of these, but I think I really should take a note, I had totally forgotten about them! I have to disagree here, sorry! I have the Webster and Tatum 4CD sets, but no others... often I have too much of it in another form. Also I find sound quality to be mediocre (to put it kindly), plus often sessions are not complete... but if you're new to some artist, these are a great way to get into his music and then go on from there! For instance, I prefer having the terrific 2CD Blue Note Dameron/Navarro package plus some other CDs over having the Proper Navarro box.

So where can I hear that mo-fo if I don't feel like hunting rare & weird 70s Atlantics?

The Miles/Wilen is a boot, so it's just as good to buy it from Lonehill than from anyone else, I assume... it's the Amsterdam set, with Klook sort of out of sync except towards the end? But a fine one! The Cleveland looks interesting, it contains his 4 Mercury albums, yes? The only one I have so far is the Verve Elite Edition of "Introducing Jimmy Cleveland" - a great disc!

All LPRs have turned into jewel case reissues quite some time ago over here (the first I remember include Psychicemotus, Gato 4, as well as as White and a Sanders from the same batch of "LPRs")

I just started such a thread here: http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=32061

Here's the idea: we've had plenty of threads about the ethical (and legal) aspects of these European labels and their reissue programmes, and there's a particularly good one active right now again, here: http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=27683 The Freshsound website can be viewed here, it also includes (listed under "Distribution Labels") Lone Hill and other "suspects" (Definitive, Disconforme, Jazz Factory, Ocium, Swing Factory): http://www.freshsoundrecords.com/newreleases.php Now my plan for this thread is to discuss not the general questions rising from these labels' activities, but rather have a thread dedicated to discussion of particular reissues, debating if one should buy this or that, or not. Since Fresh Sound and Lone Hill are releasing lots of discs, I find it very hard to get some kind of overview, and even harder it often is to make considerations about should I buy this or that reissue, or should I not, and why. So that's what I would enjoy seing publicly discussed, as sort of a guide through mined territories of theft and of accomplishment. For instance, total no-buys would be: - the Definitive rip-off of the Mingus Forties East Coast sides (originally a *terrific* Uptown release) - the Definitive rip-off of the Parker/Gillespie 1945 Town Hall concert (again originally on Uptown) - the Jazz Factory version of the Quintet's "Jazz at Massey Hall" (Debut/OJC/Fantasy/Concorde [why can't they even spell their name correctly? ) - the Jazz Factory Horace Silver Trio (originally on Blue Note) - actually almost any "complete Blue Note" or "... Verve" package on Jazz Factory (possibly just Jazz Factory in its entirety should be forgotten!) But then, Freshsound has released a bunch of very nice sets, of late, with good documentation, and with what I think is new: exact info about original releases (Lonehill bitches around and does not dare to mention original labels, at least not on the few dsics I got hold of). I very much enjoy this package, for instance, combining the three dates of Eddie Bert's for Savoy (released on three rather short LPs, originally): Crosstown (2 Cd Set) Eddie Bert Quartet & Quintet Featuring: Eddie Bert (tb), JR. Monterose (ts), Joe Puma (g), Hank Jones (p), Wendell Marshall or Clyde Lombardi (b), and Kenny Clarke (d) REFERENCE: FSRCD 427_2 BAR CODE: - PRICE: 17.40 € When trombonist Eddie Bert made these recordings he was at a point in his career where his playing was illustrative of all the eloquence that is representative of that many-dimensioned individual. Eddie had emerged as a major voice on his horn in 1954, when the Metronome Yearbook awarded him as one of the four “Musicians of the Year.” Eddie was one of those musicians on the Jazz scene who had been able to participate in some of the most advanced musical experiments and yet retain a healthy, creative and swinging style of playing. The primary reason: his roots run deep into the varied streams of Jazz. As a composer, his tunes are an evidence of Eddie’s unpretentiously imaginative, well constructed, and melodically attractive writing. Tracklisting: CD 1 1. Fragile 2. Stompin’ At The Savoy 3. I Should ‘A’ Said 4. See You Later 5. Three Bass Hit 6. What D’ya Say? 7. Billie’s Bounce 8. Bert Tram 9. One For Tubby 10. Opicana 11. It’s Only Sunshine CD 2: 1. Crosstown 2. Wishbone 3. Bronx Line 4. Conversation 5. Manhattan Suite 6. Steady Eddie 7. Slow Crosstown Or this one here: Adventures In Jazz: The Complete Columbia Recordings 1954-1955 (2 Cd Set) Pete Rugolo and His Orchestra Featuring: Pete Candoli, Maynard Ferguson, Shorty Rogers, Buddy Childers, Conrad Gozzo (tp), Harry Betts, Milt Bernhart, Herbie Harper, John Halliburton, Bob Fitzpatrick, George Roberts (tb), Fred Fox, John Grass, Bill Hinshaw, Joe Eager, Vince deRosa, John Cave, Si REFERENCE: FSRCD 2213_2 BAR CODE: - PRICE: 17.40 € In the early Fifties Pete Rugolo was best known for his work as Stan Kenton's chief arranger. After that, he spent five years arranging music for singers and writing Hollywood film scores. Then, in January 1954, he signed on with Columbia Records as an important part of their plans to expand both their dance and jazz divisions. "As I got going with the writing and recording, I became enthusiastic about the possibilities of the sound I could have with my own band," said Pete, after gathering a band of 20 men made up by the top-rated sidemen in the Hollywood studios. This CD set includes the complete songbook Pete Rugolo managed to record with his orchestra between 1954 and 1955. We can hear instrumentation including French horn, oboe, flute, piccolo, celesta, tympani, timbales, bongos and tuba in addition to the regular complement. There are accordingly some unusual voicings and resultantly pleasant tone colors that reflect the Milhaud influence. Yet, these are the very particular musical adventures of an accomplished, imaginative and successful writer. In them, Rugolo skilfully incorporates the essence of jazz and sprays it with his ever-present sense of humor. Tracklisting: CD1 1. That old Black Magic 2. Laura 3. Early Stan 4. Come Back Little Rocket 5. You Stepped Out of a Dream 6. California Melodies 7. Bazaar 8. 360 Special 9. Theme from the Lombardo Ending 10. Mañana 11. Good Evening Friends Boogie 12. King Porter Storm 13. In the Shade of the Old Apple 14. Jingle Bells Mambo 15. Poinciana 16. My Funny Valentine 17. Rugolo Meets Shearing 18. Mixin’ the Blues 19. 4.20 AM 20. Latin Nocturne CD2 1. There will Never Be Another You 2. Conversation 3. You are Too Beautiful 4. Here’s Pete 5. Shave and a Haircut 6. Sidewalks of New York 7. Manhattan Mambo 8. Sambamba 9. When Your Lover has Gone 10. Everything I have is Yours 11. Gone with the Wind 12. Hornorama 13. Little White Lies 14. Bobbin’ with Bob 15. Quiet Village (Cha cha cha) 16. Bongo Dance 17. Intermezzo 18. Montevideo 19. In a Sentimental Mood 20. Me Next! Personnel and dates: CD1 #1-4: Pete Candoli, Maynard Ferguson, Shorty Rogers, Conrad Gozzo (tp), Harry Betts, Milt Bernhart, Herbie Harper, John Halliburton (tb), Fred Fox, John Grass (frh), Paul Sarmento (tuba), Harry Klee (piccolo, as), Bud Shank (fl, as), Bob Cooper (oboe, ts), Jimmy Giuffre, (ts, bars), Bob Gordon (bars), Claude Williamson (p, celeste), Howard Roberts (g), Harry Babasin (b), Shelly Manne (d), Bernie Mattison (tympani and percussion). Hollywood, February 8, 1954. #5-8: Same but Joe Eager (frh) replaces Graas. Hollywood, February 24, 1954. #9-11: Pete Candoli, Maynard Ferguson, Shorty Rogers, Conrad Gozzo (tp), Harry Betts, Milt Bernhart, Herbie Harper, Bob Fitzpatrick (tb), Fred Fox, Bill Hinshaw (frh), Paul Sarmento (tuba), Harry Klee (piccolo, as), Bud Shank (fl, as), Bob Cooper (oboe, ts), Jimmy Giuffre, (ts, bars), Bob Gordon (bars), Claude Williamson (p, celeste), Howard Roberts (g), Harry Babasin (b), Shelly Manne (d), Bernie Mattison (tympani and percussion). Hollywood, April 28, 1954. #13-16: Pete Candoli, Maynard Ferguson, Shorty Rogers, Buddy Childers (tp), Harry Betts, Milt Bernhart, George Roberts, Bob Fitzpatrick (tb), Vince DeRosa, Sinclair Lott (frh), Paul Sarmento (tuba), Ethmer Rotten (piccolo, as), Bud Shank (fl, as), Bob Cooper (oboe, ts), Jimmy Giuffre, (ts, bars), Bob Gordon (bars), Claude Williamson (p, celeste), Howard Roberts (g), Harry Babasin (b), Shelly Manne (d), Bernie Mattison (tympani and percussion). Hollywood, April 29, 1954. #17-20: Pete Candoli, Maynard Ferguson, Shorty Rogers, Conrad Gozzo (tp), Milt Bernhart, George Roberts, John Halliburton, Herbie Harper (tb), John Cave, Sinclair Lott (frh), Paul Sarmento (tuba), Harry Klee (piccolo, as), Bud Shank (fl, as), Bob Cooper (oboe, ts), Jimmy Giuffre, (ts, bars), Bob Gordon (bars), Claude Williamson (p, celeste), Howard Roberts (g), Harry Babasin (b), Shelly Manne (d), Bernie Mattison (tympani and percussion). Hollywood, May 10, 1954. CD2 #1-5: Pete Candoli, Maynard Ferguson, Shorty Rogers, Don Paladino (tp), Milt Bernhart, Bob Fitzpatrick, John Halliburton, Herbie Harper (tb), John Cave, Sinclair Lott (frh), Paul Sarmento (tuba), Harry Klee (piccolo, as), Bud Shank (fl, as), Bob Cooper (oboe, ts), Jimmy Giuffre, (ts, bars), Bob Gordon (bars), Claude Williamson (p, celeste), Laurindo Almeida (g), Harry Babasin (b), Shelly Manne (d), Bernie Mattison (tympani and percussion). Hollywood, June 21, 1954. #6-8: Pete Candoli, Maynard Ferguson, Shorty Rogers, Mickey Mangano (tp), Milt Bernhart, Harry Betts, Bob Fitzpatrick, Herbie Harper (tb), John Graas, Sinclair Lott (frh), Paul Sarmento (tuba), Ethmer Roten, Bud Shank (fl, as), Bob Cooper (oboe, ts), Jimmy Giuffre, (ts, bars), Bob Gordon (bars), Claude Williamson (p, celeste), Howard Roberts (g), Harry Babasin (b), Shelly Manne (d), Ralph Hensel (xyl), Frank Guerrero (timbales), Joe Guerrero (bgo, perc), Lynn Franklyn (vcl #7). Hollywood, July 8, 1954. #9-12: Larry Klein, Leon Merian, Doug Mettome, John Wilson (tp), Eddie Bert, Kai Winding, Milt Gold, Frank Rehak (tb), Stan Paley, Julius Watkins (frh), Bill Barber (tuba), Herbie Mann (fl, piccolo, as), Dave Schildkraut (as, cl), Chasy Dean (ts, cl), Joe Megro (ts), Marty Flax (bs), Gordon Brown (p), Perry Lopez (g), Whitey Mitchell (b), Jerry Segal (d), Teddy Sommer (perc). NYC, October 11, 1954. #13-16: Maynard Ferguson, Buddy Childers, Uan Rasey, Shorty Rogers (tp), Milt Bernhart, Harry Betts, Bob Fitzpatrick, Herbie Harper (tb), John Graas, Vince DeRosa (frh), Paul Sarmento (tuba), Harry Klee (piccolo, as), Bud Shank (fl, as), Bob Cooper (oboe, ts), Jimmy Giuffre, (ts, bars), Bob Gordon (bars), Russ Freeman (p, celeste), Howard Roberts (g), Harry Babasin (b), Shelly Manne (d), Bernie Mattison (tympani, perc), Jack Costanzo (bgo). Hollywood, February 22, 1955. #17: Bud Shank (fl, as), Harry Klee (fl, piccolo, as), Bob Cooper (oboe, ts), Jimmy Giuffre, (ts, bars), Bob Gordon (bars), Russ Freeman (p, celeste), Howard Roberts (g), Harry Babasin (b), Shelly Manne (d). Hollywood, February 22, 1955. #18-20: The Rugolettes: Milt Bernhart (tb), John Graas (frh), Paul Sarmento (tuba), Bud Shank (fl), Bob Cooper (oboe), Howard Roberts (g), Harry Babasin (b), Shelly Manne (d). Hollywood, February 23, 1955.

Very interesting discussion here! First time I think these labels and the issues going with them are discussed in such a way here! As a result of this thread, why not have another thread where we discuss the actual releases, tell each other about gos and no-gos, blatant rip-offs, good ones, etc.? That would be nice, since Fresh Sound and Lone Hill (not so mention the other labels) reelase plenty of stuff all the time, and some kind of guide through these reissues would be highly welcome!

Sorry for the late reply... first ones I remember seeing in jewel boxes were the Lateef, the White, the Gato and the Sanders (I assume they're from one and the same batch, but I don't know). Why I looked for one of the LPR threads (not easy, as 3-letter-words cannot be searched any longer - I even saw that links wouldn't work anymore) is because yesterday I picked up the Jimmy Raney feat. Bob Brookmeyer disc (jewel pack, too, just in case). It's short but pretty sweet. Anyway, the new info says Dick Katz is on #1-4 and Hank Jones on #5-8, while the old info, including the reprint of the back-cover, gives different info (going from memory it's Katz on #1,2,5,6 and Jones on the others). What's the deal? And does the US edition have this goof, too?

Hey, wait, I was just reacting to their stoopid post-count dialogue... I already have ordered the Condon Mob and have been proud owner of the Capitol box for several years! Not my main area of music, but I like it, and I am a fan of Mosaic boxes, in general... but you're right, it seems like a lot of that ole hardbop is about as content-laden as Aggie & Ron's banter above...

Yeah, I know, but if you absolutely want to sponsor me, you'd rather put those €€ into my Mosaic order for the Condon Mob box, please!

So where did you find the Gatti?

Hi, could you please PM me the download links, too? I have not had time to take part in #43, but I hope I can post something on yours within reasonable time...

Man, you'll do anything to stay ahead of me in the post count. That's the goal....I could care less about actual content. EDIT: Don't you mean you couldn't care less? and me, I don't give a bull...

Maybe us 'Yurapeans' should club together and buy a ticket for someone (me? ) to go over to Stamford and buy a bulk purchase of sets for us all, in person, and maybe save money on P&P? Hey, wait, I'm not a yurapeeen, I'm a Swiss! But then it seems in the constant saga of bilateral treaties and the voluntary follow-up implementation (of EU legislation in Switzerland), the Swiss have now completed some kind of agreement that brings us back into all these EU statistics, and thus out of our invisibility...

My father had that Atlantic best-of of Mann's, and I liked some tunes there quite a lot, mainly both versions of "Comin' Home Baby". I got "At the Village Gate" fairly early (probably one of my first 20 jazz CDs), then went on occasionally getting some more Mann. When I hunted the Rhino/Avenue Bethlehem discs, three years or so back, I got both of these: The first one has Herbie in two quartets with guitar (Joe Puma on one date), the second pairs Mann and Sam Most, both on flute exclusively (alto flute on some tunes, and again Joe Puma is on guitar). Then in the recent ZYX/Zweitausendeins sale, I also got these: The first has a date with Bobby Jaspar (flute and tenor), Puma, Tommy Flanagan, that also expends to the second, which ends with a Jaspar date featuring Eddie Costa - very nice! The third one is a typical Prestige blowing date, Mal Waldron as usual at the piano, Kenny Burrell is featured, too, but what makes it a bit special is the presence of Charlie Rouse, in a setting rather unusual for him. If you enjoy the flute, you can't go wrong with any of these... And make sure you get some Frank Wess, too! Recommendations (two that are easy to find): The one on the left is a classy quartet date with Flanagan, the second one a great twofer, including an octet session lead by Oliver Nelson and a quintet date with Thad Jones and Gildo Mahones.

The "Art & Zoot" isn't that great, I think... and it's pretty weird that the one or two trio tracks are being mentioned in the liners but aren't included on the disc, even more so as the disc's rather short... I'd have loved to hear them, for sure! Hack-job!

Thanks a lot, I'll have a look at this!

Thank you, I guess I should have taken a closer look at the menues! How do you set-up EAC to create MP3s? I always used CDex so far...

He means "Last Chance." Yes, I found out, too... shit! I shouldn't spend that much money right now, with their horrendous 30$ of shipping for whatever you order... but I want that one (I've had the Capitol for several years).

I also bought a few nice and outrageously cheap photography books from them recently, one by Ellen Auerbach, one a fat catalogue about an exhibition on four forgotten Jewish/German photographers ("Verdrängt, vertrieben aber nicht vergessen"), and one about Soweto. Also they have the "Das Auge und der Apparat" catalogue (another heavy book, in fact), another great one (I found that for about the same prize in a store over here, though - seems even stock liquidation has turned globalized by now... at least within the tiny german-speaking part of the world)