king ubu

Now that's a warm embrace! I'll certainly have that in mind once those Sco discs are on top of the listening pile! Maybe you're right... and yes, that coldness thing might indeed go back to Miles (it also infected some acoustic jazz, in my opinion, i.e. VSOP, no denying that Herbie is great, and of course so is Tony Williams... but I just want to point out that this observation of mine includes the whole "traditional" part of 80s jazz as well, and may indeed start in the 70s already...) But the mere fact that Miles did it alas doesn't mean the others can do it and pull it off successfully. To this day, the best of Miles comeback stuff has a raw and unclutched quality that is oh so rare in most fusion music and still makes Miles' music very listenable to me. I guess that's the bad part of the great towering characters, just as Coltrane's influence taking on almost epidemic character in the mid/late 60s... Another interesting remark. I guess that goes to the opposite of what the "jazz police" would like to hear... but you may have a point. I consider "Up All Night" one of the most enjoyable albums of recent years, while the one with Garrett, Mehldau etc. is infected (I take it by the way of his young sidemen, then, not by his own fault) by that coldness I keep talking of... a live recording of the "Uberjam" band (with Avi Bortnick) I've heard was tremendously enjoyable as well! And although going in another musical direction, maybe that also shows in the Ray Charles project (at least in the great live recording I've heard on a radio broadcast some time ago).

Sorry about the little controversy I started over Tom Harrell - seems I misunderstood the use of "demons". I wasn't aware that only applies to drug (ab)use. I guess these misunderstandings happen all of the time but usually we just don't notice, but (I've made this point already and got some flac for it too, so don't hold back ) English remains a foreign language to many of us, even though it's the current lingua franca (I'm tempted to insert a "still", but of course I have no idea if Mandarin or Hindi will be next...). Anyway, I have the utmost respect for Harrell and have mentioned before how stunning I find his tone and musical conception. And for the other off-topic thing about genius, I tend to agree with niko that hard skills aren't a good measurement criteria (if there is one at all...) Now on topic again: I didn't know about that falling out between Shaw and Jefferson and Turre being the laughing winner of the situation - but the quintet with the t/tb frontline with Turre may have been Woody's most special band, I think! A line-up that's rarely seen.... J.J. made some sessions with Nat Adderley that are pretty cool, they're on the J.J. Columbia Mosaic, and of course there are the Fuller/Farmer and Bennie Green/Farmer albums, but still, it's not a very common line-up!

I think that's the one I've heard back then

I assume you found the right one, on Blvd Saint Michel? There are others, but only one (I couldn't tell you where it is, a five or ten minute walk from Saint-Mich) also has used CDs, I think.... found a Masters of Jazz disc by Benny Carter there, I think (and I couldn't restrain myself... I must have bought over 20 CDs at the big one in that week I spent in Paris...)

Sad news Will play some of his music again soon! I think I first took notice of him on those Vogue quartet sides with Martial Solal, very nice music!

Flurin - If you haven't already, check out "En Route Live" or the Trio Beyond recording on ECM for some great (IMO) recent Scofield. I find myself pulling these out (and some of his earliest stuff) more than alot of his BN and Gramavision era recordings nowadays. I also like the MSMW "Out Louder" recording, both the studio and live disc, but that may not be your cup of tea. I saw Scofield tour on the Ray Charles project tour, and thought he (and the material) was better live than on that record. Too many guest stars I suppose. I'm curious about the Piety Street record though, and hope having a vocalist doesn't take the focus off his playing too much. I was referring more to "Shinola" and "Out Like a Light" on Enja ----- pre-Gramavision. You know, it's funny because this discussion comes up (or rather: I intervene) when a pile of Sco discs are out here to be listened to again... from my memory, I quite enjoyed "Groove Elation" and "Quiet", as they both were a bit warmer and more varied. I also have "Shinola" but it's stacked away somewhere. "En Route" I have somewhere, as well. And yes, I think the energy and fun of the Ray Charles band wouldn't transpose nicely onto a studio disc, so even though I loved that concert, I never even checked out the CD... I've heard some boots of the Sco/Swallow/Stewart band, too, and I think they're quite cool. Trio Beyond I don't really know... I once left the disc behind when it was in a sales bin (there were too many others I wanted more badly...), but somehow I've regretted that as I remember hearing some bits on the radio, possibly even before it was released (it's a live recording, right?) Anyway, there's plenty of interesting stuff in his discography (though I've only heard one of the Grammavisions and although I have a lot of respect for Grolnick and enjoy his two Blue Note albums a lot, all these cheesy synths and Darry Jones' - I think? - electric bass and Sco's fusion-y guitar.... yuck yuck yuck, just the sound of it all, no way I could stand it, and that was back in the 90s when I was playing lots of 80s Miles and even some stuff such by guys like Stanley Clarke...).

Instead of the Swiss kind of cold? Na, Swiss kind of cold is what IRS and Obama try to hack now... (with my agreement, but it's not popular...) Seriously, what I mean is kind of a hard-edgedness (that may not even be in the actual music, more in the general attitude the music is presented with) that I seem to hear in a lot of 90s "young lions" jazz (folks like Rosenwinkel, Turner, Potter, Blake etc etc) and that I find quite tiring after a short while, even if the music may be fascinating and multi-faceted (i.e. with Rosenwinkel or Turner). I realise Sco is a bit older and has been tutored by one of the very greatest talent scouts of jazz, but still... maybe it's just my ears, but more often than not, I don't connect with his music (Lovano, collaborator on some of his discs - often referred to as among his best - is a similar case).

agreed - pretty good one!

uhm, why's Pat being discussed on this forum, isn't this about jazz? as for Sco, I've never seen him live and been both warm and cold with his music again and again... but I once heard a long part of a Ray show on the radio and he was just awesome, digging deeply into the music, and the whole band made him sound so much more soulful than often (much of his stuff can sound awfully cold to me, you know, of that kind of cool and hard and I guess NYC type of cold....)

Thanks for sharing that link - interesting video!

Wow, this sounds like quite a book! Thanks for the link to the interview, just read half of it (but being at work I'll just print it now... I got hooked!)

Ah, that Braxton thingie... yes, that one I'd also buy if I could!

found this thread because I was searching for Argonne Thornton (aka Sadik Hakim, but I went with the search term "Argonne"... not one to get too many results I guess...) Anyway, what's up with this KoKo session with Albany? Imagination of a fertile mind?

Should keep you occupied for a day or so. Rather for months, to be honest, but the prize was right, plus these are all labels that aren't regularly distributed here (lots of Justin Time in the sales bins, too - a friend of mine bought the Billy Bang disc from that concert done by Lazaro's radio station, with Frank Lowe! Glad he bought some of the good stuff, too, or else I'd have bought even more...) Sounds like an opportunity for some shared listening time. Yeah, I spent five hours at his place Wednesday night, but we ended up playing lots of pre-war jazz too (a used store here took over a heritage with a few hundred Chrono Classics... I restrained myself to about 25 months ago - and now I'm considering the almost full run of Fletcher Henderson's, that would up the number to 40 - but my friend kept going back there again and again... played some Slim Gaillard, Matty Matlock (or was that the other Matlock - not familiar with them really), James P. Johnson and more...

.......and Willisau 1991, dagnabit!!! By whom? Roach/Shepp, too?

Go to Gibert's and you'll fine more than you'll ever be able to buy... that was my experience at least! I popped in on a few small second hand stores too, and scored lucky once or twice, but nothing compares to Gibert!

Maybe he was a little of each. I only had the one experience, and he was on a downhill trajectory of which we all know how it ended. I love his music, too, BTW, glad we got to play once, and am sorry he was in such bad shape when I ran into him. Re this 'genius' bit: Don't know if he was a genius. Depends on one's definition, I suppose. The only one I encountered in my life as a professional to date was Jaki Byard. He was really ahead of the curve in his thinking and I saw him in action as a band member for 1 and 1/2 years. Nothing short of brilliant, I am convinced. I guess Tom Harrell probably is one, I met him a few times and never worked with him, but I know what he can do, and he probably does qualify. To hear Phil Woods tell it, there's no question. Joe Cohn has amazing ears and is a thrilling improvisor and can put thirds under a fast complicated melody he's hearing for the first time. He can play back what you just played, the exact voicings. Every musician in the know in NY knows what he can do, myself included. Does this make him a genius? Not sure. Woody Shaw was a powerfully creative and vital musician. And he was very advanced at a young age. Isn't that enough? I didn't want to start a discussion of "genius" actually... and in fact I don't mind, as it is - as you say - a very difficult thing to define. And certainly Woody is enough for me! More than enough, really, he was a terrific musician and his music continues to enrich my life! (As for Harrell, the night I caught him live in 2006 was sort of hard to take... but in between he made some stunning music - it was really like him struggling his demons in front of an audience, having trouble navigating through his own (marvellous!) themes, but as soon as they played something simpler (a few standards), he absolutely shined and made his band look like schoolboys in comparison, he really went places! A fascinating musician, to say the very least!)

Should keep you occupied for a day or so. Rather for months, to be honest, but the prize was right, plus these are all labels that aren't regularly distributed here (lots of Justin Time in the sales bins, too - a friend of mine bought the Billy Bang disc from that concert done by Lazaro's radio station, with Frank Lowe! Glad he bought some of the good stuff, too, or else I'd have bought even more...)

I forgot to list this one here: Mental Strain at Dawn: A Modern Portrait of Louis Armstrong It's by our own Allen Lowe and features Doc Cheatham, David Murray, Loren Schoenberg and others. Years ago I once passed by the Woyzeck disc of Allen's in a used store... but back then I had no clue who Allen was, I was interested in Büchner though but out of money...

Thanks for having changed the title/subtitle - I was among those who were bothered by it as well. And about that long post on Jaco - was Woody Shaw really one of those huge-ego-persons who considered himself being a genius and all? I mean I don't know that much about Woody the man/person (I love his music though), but from the bits of footage I've seen and from what I've read, he was much more of a tragic character than an a**hole, but what do I know... somehow the impression I have of Shaw, and the impression I have of Jaco's, they don't really fit together much.

Coitanly! Hope you contribute whenever you get a chance to. Thanks Dan!

I can relate to that, Chris! I guess I'm just shying away from changing anything about my computer set-up... and honestly I'd much rather go for a new 500$ notebook that can do all I need, rather than change system, learning it all anew AND pay much more (I'm afraid I need a new notebook soon, but I actually can't afford it... or rather: I prefer buying music...) Anyway, Linux would be a smart option, too, I gather (and a nice one image-wise).

Is anything not ok with the old CDs of "The Long March"? Or am I just a lucky bastard for having them?

so they're deep? I always had a hunch that "deep" was indeed two...

and that was not bought today, but rather in three devastating visits at the shop...