kenny weir

No doubt about John Broven ("Walking To New Orleans" hit me rather early on) but my doubts about Mike Leadbitter probably are due to the way he excluded R&B in a very wide sense from the early issue of his discography, and other quotes from his early publications found in the "How Britain Got The Blues" book seem to indicate it took him quite a bit of time to see the light, or else he had a slightly skewed picture of the "Unlimitedness" of the "Blues" (pun intended ). Signs of the (selective awareness of) the times, I guess ... About this "Maybeth Hamilton book" that you mention - can't recall it here on this forum but is this MaRybeth Hamilton"'s "In Search of The Blues"? Is it a worthwhile read? I have yet to start "The Land Where The Blues Began" by Alan Lomax (bought a couple of months ago) so maybe I ought to get this one too for a BALANCED view? Yeah, well I have no doubt Leadbitter (especially as regards the discog) is due his share of blame - IF blame is due anyone at all! But as I said, I recall pretty catholic tastes within the pages of the mag itself - including one issue with a cover that comprised a photo of himself chatting with Jackie Wilson. Yes, that's the one - MaRybeth Hamilton. I found it a fascinating read. Not about the music so much as the processes by which the early blues police and so on formed the listening habits of so many of us. Sadly, I also found it quite a limited read in terms of its scope - it never mentioned various tangents touched upon in this thread, for instance. However, knowing as I do your interests and approach over this and related threads, I'd it's pretty much mandatory. The thread based on it kicked off with, I think, a scathing review of the book by Dave Marsh, which was seen by several here as a strong commendation. BTW, on my many forays into New Orleans and South Louisiana - going back aways now - His South To Louisiana book was my bible. It, too, is getting on in years, but AFAIK no one has gone close to bettering it. I also talked to guys like Johnnie Allan who recalled their amazement and delight when the likes of Broven and Leadbitter started coming through and knocking on doors. And now, I've got to insert these for my son:

We've been down this road before ... on the thread about the Maybeth Hamilton book. I'm sure Blues Unlimited an the like played a role, but ... I distinctly recall Leadbitter, Slaven, Bruce Bastin and John Broven being responsible for me getting into some of this stuff - as well as cajun music and thinking of Fats Domino as more than pop star! And I recall reviews as diverse as Presley's Sun sides. Even then those guys were sluts. I'd put the "off radar" factor more down to those more directly involved in propagating the Johnson/Crossroads myth. Yep, Jagger, Richards & Co were wallflowers!

MG, your post above is just the sort of thing I'm thinking of - the music press coverage you talk of seems less inclined to let pigeonholes get in the way. Too true, that!

Let me add that while I find this sort of hair-splitting - and this thread - fascinating, at this point I'm very much into finding connections, where previously such connections may have been denied me through my own bigotry/snobbishness, lack of knowledge of and exposure to the relevant music, colonial cultural baggage, entertainment industry disinformation and no doubt other factors as well! (Which isn't the same as finding connections where none exist.) And so I'm a little surprised that so many posts seem determined to hold to what I consider old-hat, outmoded stances and the upholding of yes/no black/white right/wrong delineations. Is it really such a stretch to say that rock influenced blues/soul/R&B? Doing so, for me, in no way minimises let alone rejects the presence of other influences

Sorry, everything I've read and heard, then and since, leads me to believe that R&B (in the way it's being discussed here) and soul (ditto) are part of a continuum. Yes, there were differences - a Civil Rights factor, for instance. But for many, many of the participants at the time, I doubt such a "change" was barely worth remarking on. Bobby Bland and Solomon Burke are just two that come to mind as having s stake on both camps. Bland and Little Milton recorded for Sun before going to Duke and Chess/Stax respectively. To me, Bobby is an R&B artist AND a soul singer. As for R&B, well in one of those odd twists, it may have actually been easier for a teenager in NZ to latch on to that stuff than a likeminded soul in the US, at least one who wasn't already to scouring joints for 2nd hand discs or hanging out in black clubs. Not that we had the records in our shops (plenty of blues, but no R&B). But through reading the likes of Blue Unlimited, I certainly became quickly aware of the likes of Joe Liggins and Floyd Dixon. And this Specialty comp (and its Vol 2), from the early '70s, were hugely influential on me: And after that came the Route 66 label with releases by Wynonie Harris, Dixon, Roy Brown and many more. (Yeah, yeah, I know - this timeframe is a little later, just saying ...) As well, while the Brit R&B/mod bands did a heap of Muddy and wolf, as well as Burke and Irma Thomas and so on, it wasn't unknown for them to also cover this type of R&B - as well as Buddy Holly.

So you didn't dig the blues-based bands much at all, but you were born Ten Years After? Confusing!

There's been a fantastic doco series screening - easily the best of its kind I've seen - called The British Invasion. I've seen three of them - Dusty Springfield, Herman's Hermits, The Small Faces. *All over 1 1/2 hours long. *No gratuitous talking heads (sociologists, ageing rock hacks, contemporary stars paying homage) - all those interviewed are leading players in the story. *Each one I've seen has made me rethink the artist concerned. *Best of - this series PLAYS WHOLE SONGS. This is unknown to me in a lifetime of watching music docos. Anyway, despite being a lifelong Faces fan - Itchykoo Park was the second record I ever owned - the Small Faces episode was a revelation in terms of the live footage: I had little idea before this just how much of a great R&B singer Mariott was.

Each to his own. I'm no fan of either, but this strikes me as both absurd - and inaccurate, in the sense that the cultural landscape was so different. Even if you consider Winter a "white boy playing (at) the blues", he nevertheless came up in era quite different from navel-gazing that attended WM's career. Each is concerned with only a small fraction of the past of the music that they love, which they believe to be the crucial bits of those kinds of music. For example, has Johnny Winter ever shown any interest in Joe Liggins, Charles Brown, Roy Milton, Harmonica Fats, Esther Phillips, Big Maybelle? (I don't know the answer to that question, by the way, so it isn't rhetorical.) MG I simply don't see it as either/or situation. And as for the examples you cite: ... well I can't talk about a matter influence here when I consider them part of the same thing. Sure, some of it was more downhome and country, but Muddy Waters and Etta James recorded for the same label and appeared on the same charts. I don't know either, but I DO know that among the likes of the Allams and the Muscle Shoals guys in their formative years, Bland's Two Steps From The Blues album was a massive influence. So, no, I don't think they spent all their time digging Elmore James.

I think you're both right. I'm sure Hendrix had an influence on the likes of Buddy Guy and many more. And Hendrix's background was soul/R&B. Otis performed at Monterrey. Duane Allman recorded with Wilson Pickett. Hooker and Heat. Johnny Rivers produced Al Wilson's The Snake. Freddie King recorded for Shelter. And so on ... not so easy to slice an dice so clinically about such turbulent times, musically and otherwise. Each to his own. I'm no fan of either, but this strikes me as both absurd - and inaccurate, in the sense that the cultural landscape was so different. Even if you consider Winter a "white boy playing (at) the blues", he nevertheless came up in era quite different from navel-gazing that attended WM's career.

I agree. Besides I preferred his brother when he had that swampy Slim Harpo sorta thing going on. Allen made a good point on another thread a while ago, and one that I'd never considered. That that era of rock, and the showmanship that went with it, had a profound effect on the blues scene. I've spent my time as a paid-up member of the Blues Police so there've been times when I would've found some of that influence yucky. I remember some sort of brouhaha about the legitimacy of one of the Otis Rush Cobra sides - because it had backing vocals or some such. Bobby Bland's California Album met similar responses. And I remember seeing Little Milton in a club in Oakland, seeing the chick singers, and thinking" "Yech!" But these days it's much easier, more enjoyable and enlightening seeing as all the dots are being connected and we have fewer excuses for such myopia. In that context, I'd suggest that THE most important of the tunes Robert Johnson recorded was They're Red Hot, showing him to be an entertainer and part of a broader tradition than the Johnson/Crossroads myth would allow.

No, it's all good. I think. Ongoing but amicable.

That's cool - every now and then I say "thank you" to an ATM. And also I sometimes answer the phone by saying "Sunday Herald Sun" - the newspaper I left more than a year ago.

I'd definitely advise against priests or other religious types, Christian or otherwise. I have recent personal experience. They will always and only interpret anything in a way that confirms their own belief systems. Who ya going to call? Maybe that "Where Dead Voices Gather" fellow could be just the ticket!

And maybe that's a pretty fair defintion in itself of the term "ghost"! Hence, I see no reason why questions 3 & 4 should be considered mutually exclusive. Dan, you left out an important detail: Who were the CDs by? I have only a single long-ago (30 years) experience with the paranormal, and that was fleeting and slight - but, significantly, it was shared with another person. So for me, there was no doubt about it, even if it more a matter of mutual telepathy rather ghostly emanations. Other than that, I'm open-minded. That's about right for me. Please keep us posted on this interesting situation! It sounds like you're bemused if a little wary, which seems a lot healthier than jumpy and fearful

Yesterday, for my my 1-hour commute, I took my Rhino 2cd "Anthology 1964-1977" for road music. (I'm on my fourth copy of it, having given the previous three to friends!) Road music? It was fucking magic! So much so that that, despite actually driving 10km/h slower, the trip seemed significantly shorter! Got me thinking about it being time I got some Rivers in my life. However, after checking allmusic, the Rivers site, Amazon etc, I'm unsure. Truth is, the 36-track Rhino comp seems to do a pretty faultless job of combining early hits & singles with cherry-picked later album tracks - Going Back To Big Sur, Into The Mystic and so on. For sure, I'd love to have another couple of Van covers - Brown Eyed Girl and Wild Night - handy! (Blimey - it's OOP: And I've just seen Amazon has it ranging from 1 new from $286.65 8 used from $89.99 !!!) All the albums are available one way or another, but I don't want to lessen the impact his music has for me. Questions ... 1. What albums do any fans here consider the best? 2. What of later albums - there's been a few in the last couple of decades, and there's a new one out. 3. Anyone seen him live lately? AFIK, he still goes around, but not all that often. I have a New Orleans buddy who saw him about 15 years; he said he kicked ass. Johnny Rivers: One of those guys who slips under the radar when all the usual talking-heads docos are made, but had a heap of hits, an uncanny knack for picking great songs, had (and continues to have) great players fronting up to play with/for him.Listening to Sea Cruise yesterday, I realised - given Rivers' background - that with a simple twist of fate it could've been him rather than Frankie Ford singing on the original version. Here's the Rhino song list: Disc: 1 1. Memphis 2. Maybellene 3. Mountain of Love 4. Midnight Special 5. Cupid 6. Seventh Son 7. Parchman Farm 8. Where Have All the Flowers Gone? 9. Under Your Spell Again 10. Secret Agent Man 11. I Washed My Hands in Muddy Water 12. Poor Side of Town 13. By the Time I Get to Phoenix 14. Do You Want to Dance? 15. Baby I Need Your Loving 16. Tracks of My Tears 17. Do What You Gotta Do 18. Tunesmith 19. It's Too Late Disc: 2 1. Summer Rain 2. Look to Your Soul 3. Brother, Where Are You 4. Going Back to Big Sur 5. Whiter Shade of Pale 6. These Are Not My People 7. City Ways 8. You Better Move On 9. Muddy River Listen 10. Into the Mystic 11. Fire and Rain 12. Sea Cruise 13. Rockin' Pneumonia and the Boogie Woogie Flu 14. Blue Suede Shoes 15. Help Me, Rhonda 16. Outside Help [*] 17. Swayin' to the Music (Slow Dancin') Damn! I love Mountain Of Love and Baby I Need Your Loving - as so often with Rivers, not despite them being cover versions but because they are.

Now I know why my life seems so empty. I have no target CDs. Worse ... I don't even know what a target CD is.

One of my favorite weekend combinations. Yes!

I agree. I do hit-and-rum forays with very specific quiries in mind. And beyond that, I'd rather use opinions here on just aboyt everything non-jazz!

You and I can have this disagreement here. Over there, one of us would have been banned. Hopefully I would have been. That's one reason. There are others. I hear you - personally, I have no time for a place that bans discussions of a poltical or religious nature, and despite the grief those topics can cause. as I sed, as a reference I've found it useful. It was this comibination: ... that I found jarring. If you have other issues, I understand.

I'm no fan of the place, but .... If rock-related quations are of no interest to you, then you are hardly in a position to judge whether it is a joke or not. I've actually found it useful many times for non-jazz issues, even if I don't dig the culture. Why not just say "it's not for me"?

I thought it was a pitiful showing, as it was always going to be. But I give them some credit for sticking to the likes of Teenage Wasteland and Won't Get Fooled Again, that at least have a sort of arena rock thing going. Better them by far than Pictures Of Lilly or Substitute!

In that sense, my utter contempt is reserved not for their "gang" - AAJ forum participants - but for those who run the joint. I think everyone who left there - either forced out or by choice - has severe reservations about particular decisions made. I still find it a useful resource; in particular for finding out about forthcoming UK based issues and reissues. I just find that every time that AAJ is mentioned you can guarantee that someone will chip in with why they left/got evicted/hate the place within the first few posts. Maybe we should have an 'I hate AAJ' thread for people to work through their anger. Then the other threads can stay on topic. I think this one is actually about hacking into AAJ. Bev, I don't hate the place! I guess I'm lucky in that belliegerance has been notably lacking from most of my life, not to mention spite and other nastiness. So yes, when it comes up I am reminded of a time when all those thing were in my face.

Yes, I agree. Sorry for letting this thread trigger some unpleasant memories!

No, I don't think that's what these comments are about at all. Obviously, I am not alone in feeling that I was deliberately disenfranchised - after spending much time there posting and contributing in a postitive manner, especially on Australian jazz - in favour of a cherry-picked few whose every nasty, brutish comment drew no comment let alone reprimand. They had their reasons. But backing those reasons with blatant, unexplained discrimination makes those responsible look very shabby. In that sense, my utter contempt is reserved not for their "gang" - AAJ forum participants - but for those who run the joint.

Ha ha - that happened YEARS ago with the gutless management endorsement of a select few trolls and bullies.