CJ Shearn

ooh, I feel sorry I ordered it....... but since I'm sort of a completist with the VSOP thing I guess that's alright. The opinions contrast to some old rec.music.bluenote posts I read where some folks enjoyed it. Still will be curious to hear it tho. I'm not expecting the album to better anything done with Miles or anything totally new about it. I will say that the Directions in Music disc that came out about a year and a half or so ago, now that was bad. The performances were pretty dull, except for that mind bending Brecker "Naima" solo, I have a boot of a performance from 9/20/01 that just smokes the official release, there is incredible tension in the music, especially Herbie's solos, maybe the intensity was partly due to the fact it happened a week after 9/11, but nonetheless it's burning shit.

thanks for the opinion Lon. I guess I'll be able to better form an opinion when I receive it, but really the only VSOP disc that never really struck me is "Live Under the Sky", but even from another listen a few weeks ago, it is pretty good despite the instrument problems. Didn't you attend a VSOP gig in Phoenix where Freddie Hubbard showed up under the influence of something and they barely finished one tune?

This just shipped out to me today from CDuniverse. Been one that was on my list for a while, and technically although it doesn't use the name it is a VSOP Quintet (with Wallace in place of Freddie) disc. Also have been trying to complete my collection of VSOP related discs (tho the very first still eludes me), not to mention load up on more Hancock/Carter/Williams what are some opinions of the "Tribute to Miles" disc vs. the other VSOP Quintet records?

thanks Chuck, much appreciated.

thanks for the info Claude. Anyone know if Sony has any live material from the VSOP II tour in the can?

Happy new year everybody. My first post in a while, haven't been posting much while I'm here at home during the winter break. Was "Herbie Hancock Quartet" recorded during the same July, 1981 period as "Herbie Hancock Trio '81"? (July 27, 1981) the U.S. disc doesn't give a recording date for "Quartet". Also, as Hancock had a track record of most straight ahead releases from the late 70's on being recorded and released in Japan only, was "Quartet" originally planned for a Japanese only release? I'd imagine since Winnie was getting a bit push then, that was a reason why the record was released here, good record tho, although I think "Trio '81" gets the edge with the strong takes on "Stablemates" and "Dolphin Dance".

Ground loop is the 60 cycle frequency hum right?

thanks Rockfeller, I have read that info before. I just think with "8:30", it doesn't have an edge, even though the live stuff is great it doesn't have many risks as say "Live in Tokyo" or even tracks off "Live and Unreleased" from around the same time. I love the edition with Jaco, but I think the lack of percussion took out a pleasing textural element that was there before, and I think the groove thing they went it too maybe restricted things a tiny bit. Although I still think "Heavy Weather" and "Black Market" are great albums. Compositionally, HW is great.

I was listening to some of it last night (I bought the Mastersound edition a while back since it has the complete album unlike the domestic) and I think that compared to the other WR albums I have (Black Market, Live in Tokyo, Live and Unreleased, and Heavy Weather) it's the weakest of the bunch, the live portions are excellent, but the studio half is a little dissapointing, "Sightseeing" cooks, but "Brown Street" despite having some cool grooves and patterns (Zawinul's walking bass with a little "hump") but it doesn't go anywhere on the whole. "Live in Tokyo" is IMO the ultimate WR live album, they just take amazing chances on that. "8:30", as I understand it was a "greatest hits" sort of tour, so the risks they took may not have been as great during that time. Anyone care to weigh in their perspectives on "8:30"?

thanks Ed. wow that is odd looking. BN must be revisiting theb trend of CD's with unusual color schemes: some of the recent RVG's have the white/pale blue, which seems to be mimicing the original LP label schemes instead of the white/dark blue that has been on many BN's.

I struggle with this issue all the time. There are some people I know who I'll turn on a serious grooving piece and they'll start talking. Iremember last year when I played Jaco's "Come on Come Over" a tried to draw attention to Herbie's solo entrance, nobody pained attention. Mostly because many people aren't able to critically analyze, noticing when a tune is modal as opposed to changes, recognizing a players fav. licks, etc. One of the things in the jazz class I TA'ed this semester that we did was try to get people listening to jazz critically, it was an intro course surveying jazz history, getting people familar with key names and styles, and also showing that styles that had their heyday several decades ago are still alive and well, hopefully some of the people gained an interest and will pursye the artform. One of the things I got people interested was when I taught a section on hard bop and showed the students "Moanin" off the One Night With Blue Note DVD, and also when doing a short presentation on Pat Metheny when we were doing the Jazz Today category, I showed "Are You Going With Me?" from the More Travels video and I noticed many had their eyes glued on the screen which was a good sign.

Al Dimeola leaves me cold. His playing is just empty, although I think he is a very good acoustic player. His Metheny esque stuff in the 80's was an ego trip, after Pat came out with "First Circle", Al decided to do the Synclavier thing, and go for a similar sort of sound. Even the pseudo Roland GR300 trumpet sound on that tune "Traces of a Tear", the lone tune I really heard from "Soaring Through a Dream" really sucked. Al is such an arrogant ass too, saw this webcast interview with him where someone sent in a question about making a live album and he just replied "no. because historically, live albums don't sell" or something to that effect.

cool, it's good to see that he'll be back playing. Those "Master" discs are very valuable because he's playing in a trio, which IMO shows his absolutely command of the instrument, and especially when backed by a favorite player like Burrell, shows his sensitivity to the musicians. Those records were recorded for Somethin' Else, BN's sister company. Does anyone know if Jimmy recorded more sessions in Japan at that time that have gone unreleased? I remember in a 1992 Stanley Turrentine article in Downbeat that it said he was involved in an engagement in Tokyo with Jimmy, Kenny and Grady Tate. Was this recorded? Another excellent example of late period live Jimmy are the two "Fourmost"" and "Fourmost Return" discs on Milestone.

thanks Matthew. The Wersi ::cringe:: sounds thin as hell. I was saying to myself earlier that the company probably needed a famous organ player to endorse their crappy sounding organ and thought: HEEEEEEEEEY! why not get Jimmy Smith? We'll wow him out of that antiquated Hammond, hell it's not even produced anymore, so let's sell him on the benefits of our organ's great new sound Wersi: sounds just like a Hammond, after a testicular removal ok, I had my late night fun, really tired, it's tough the last week of classes before I have my finals.

the Wersi was a digital organ or something, right Jim? was it sort of like the Synclavier/ Fairlight of sampled organ at the time?

somebody get the picture with him using the Wersi outta here "The Cat Strikes Again" was an awful album, absolutely horrid. When he recorded that, just how long did he abandon the B-3? I can't think that it was for too long b/c he was back on the big B for "Off the Top" in '82

Jimmy still blows my mind even tho my appreciate of other organists has branched out. What not many people know is that his early playing, around 56-58 nwas very Coltrane influenced, and I've known cats who when I mention that it's like blasphemy to say. but it's true, Jimmy was doing sheets of sound on the organ. And then of course Larry Young took the freer elements of Trane's playing and ran with them later on. Jimmy will always remain one of my favs, and "The Sermon" w/o question probably my favorite record, period. I grew up on that, it was in my posession as soon as I could handle records when I was little.

Kari, the info I found about the Trio reissue was from the "administrator" on Herbie's site. copied directly from the message board, apparently someone was asking if there are plans for a Complete Columbia Recordings box set. Here is what they said: "We have no info on a Sony boxed set. However, Sony Legacy is working on releasing the following in 2004 VSOP - Live Under The Sky The Piano Trio - with Ron Carter & Tony Williams Flood" It's great that "Flood" is being released, I have a burn, but I want to go for an existing Japanese copy just b/c I love those black label Mastersound CD's, with the "MASTERSOUND" in gold/bronze :-d Flood IMO smacks both HH's and Thrust, and the pre Manchild "Hang Up Your Hangups" is great!

Kari, since you are a HH completist, how is the "VSOP" live double album with Mwandishi, Freddie/Wayne/Ron/Tony, and his then post Headhunters funk group? I saw it on CD at Virgin on 14th st in NYC a few years back, made the mistake of *not* picking it up. Went back last month to that same location while visiting some friends and it could not be located. Since then I have collected all the other live VSOP albums (including the inferior sounding domestic CD of "The Quintet") on CD, and would like to track that initial endeavor down. As for Sony/Legacy releasing VSOP stuf here, don't you find it dissapointing that they are reissuing "Live Under the Sky"? they should really reissue "Tempest in the Colosseum" instead, which is a far hotter date. "Live Under the Sky" has it's moments, but the fact that everyone's instruments got wet due to a rainstorm going on during the concert really dampens their flow of ideas and ways they wish to communicate them at times. e.g Wayne's soprano on "One of a Kind" and Herbie's long pauses in his solo and uncertainty of phrasing probably due to the wet keys of his piano. I also saw on Herbie's site that they are reissuing "Herbie Hancock Trio" at some point next year. Will this be the Trio '77 date or the '81 album? the Herbie Hancock Trio album from '81 is excellent, I imported it last year. Also, weren't half of the same sessions from the '77 trio date under Ron Carter's name on "Third Plane" for Milestone? kind of odd that half a date would be done for Sony in Japan, then the other half for a U.S. Ron Carter date.

I noticed the similarity to "Hornets" on tracks two and three, did Herbie reassemble Mwandishi just for the recording of the soundtrack? The clips left me a little cold, too much dialogue and movie sound effects drowning out the music.

Blade is quite imaginative with his phrasing, especially with mallets. An album where I enjoy his playing quite a bit is Josh Redman's "Spirit of the Moment: Live at the Village Vanguard"

let me add another grunter: Herbie Hancock...... I hear his grunting pretty much any acoustic recording I've heard that he's on

very interesting comments on Workman vs. Merritt. I haven't heard enough of Workman's playing on a consistent basis to judge, but I feel that Jymie, compared with his days in the JM's, when he was playing with Lee on the Lighthouse date, there was a definite growth in his laying from time keeper, to a looser sort of style, but the solid time keeping has to be considered with the JM's heavily groove based approach when he was in the band. On "Live at the Lighthouse", Merritt's playing IMO is stylistically in the same zone as Carter, Garrisson or LaFaro in that he was freeing up the more conventional 1-2-3-4 method of playing in favor of picking out notes in the mode, and playing against the momentum, with a drummer like DeJohnette on "Speedball" pushing the hell out of the rhythm section with his broken swinging and constant dialogue with the soloists, I don't think a typical walking pattern would have worked as well, although, the way the tune was being played calls for these sort of techniques. Still, both Reggie and Jymie were great for the roles they served with Art and each contribution is valuable in their own ways.

interesting comment about Workman. To me on "Indestructible" the way he goes about using pedal points, double stops, and general other abstractions, reminds me of Ron Carter, but with those techniques filtered through a very individual thing. Just the general climate of bass playing around then I guess

I've found that most of the RVG's I own, sound pretty good, there are a few dissapointments in titles like "A Blowin Session" and "Speak No Evil", but I think that most of the ones I have (around 30 or so) sound good. Also most of my RVG's are my first time owning the music contained on those CD's. I generally think that sometimes remasterings are perceived to be better these days b/c they are louder, usually caused by the compression, but some, I think like most of the recent Miles Columbia reissues sound fantastic, older Columbia discs just sound bad in comparison, very "digital", harsh in the high end and cold. Though I think the current '92 issue of "My Funny Valentine/Four and More" sounds pretty good. I remember getting the CTI reissue last year of Stanley Turrentine's "Sugar", huge difference compared to the original CD reissue. The original was tinny, they added fake reverb, etc...... Stanley sounded like he was hooked up to a MIDI device, it was pretty bad. There are examples too, of recent remasterings that add to the recording rather than hinder it, for example "Lyle Mays", from 1986, the recent '98 remastering just adds a little warmth to an already excellently engineered (and produced) album, no unnecessary treble, bass, etc, kind of reminded me of a Japanese remaster in some ways. Like a few others have said , I'm in the camp of those that wait for a title to appear remastered if one is scheduled on the map.