CJ Shearn

yeah, "Spirits 17" wasn't all that interesting.... "Spirits" does seem like a very personal project. Part 1 of ZTFS after that heavy strumming it starts with does move into a melodic territory after a while, you just gotta find it. I think it was either Part 2, or 4 that very nearly came close to sounding like a complete tune. Thanks for the info on KJ's album, I wasn't aware of that.

JG, are you referring to CTI's first releases which included Jobim, Montgomery and Benson under A&M's banner which spanned from 1967-70? I believe in the early days of CD according to Doug Payne's excellent and very thorough CTI discography which can be found at www.dougpayne.com , some of those albums were remastered by RVG, and housed in digipacks as early as 1984. I know some of the releases such as the Benson's were reissued on CD again in 2000 I believe, and other A&M/CTI titles such as one of the Jobim's and I think a Milton Nascimiento album were released in the Verve By Request series a few years ago. I believe that King is distributing the CTI catalog in Japan as of now and have recently reissued some of those A&M/CTI's before it became an independent in 1970.

I was thinking about this the other day that some musicians put out albums that are overly self indulgent or are for the benefit for certain audiences, or sometimes reach for concepts that don't quite get there. Here are a few albums I've thought of that may fit that category: Keith Jarrett: Spirits what is going on with this record? I watched via a webcast receive a prestigious musical award in I think Denmark, where there was a modern dance piece set to "Spirits 17", which was Keith "moaning" all these chants and playing soprano sax, and it really did not make much sense. I only have heard that one piece from that record, and it seemed overly self indulgent. Apparently he lived on Native American land and wanted to make some music that would reflect the heritage. That one piece however included more than a gratuitous amount of what we already hear on his albums. Why not choose to play a tape of a real chant instead of that horrible stuff Keith was doing? Pat Metheny: Zero Tolerance for Silence I love Pat, and actually I find this album quite interesting, even though I don't own it (heard it) but I think the whole mono chromatic density thing didn't come off that well with some people who heard it, or were maybe used to the melodic PMG, and I actually wonder if it was something he maybe released for himself and other guitarists as a sort of research into that sort of playing. Hasn't Buckethead done playing like that as well? But it's not something I completely dislike either although it's not something I'd play all the time. Jsngry, would you mind reposting your hilarious rant on the over indulgence of Ron Carter's album where he plays Bach, from the BNBB if you archived it? or if not could you paraphase what you said about it?

is Thom Jurek paid to gush in every review? He seems to marvel at anything he hears and even for the simplest groovin' stuff like Patton's "Let Em Roll" he analyzes some things like their huge, where in the case of that album everything is for the benefit of the groove, not a necessarily earth shattering technical achievement

any info as to whether or not the rejected titles from 2/25/58 were with Smith's trios, special trios or quartets with guest artists? I would be interested to hear rejected takes from that session if they exist.

Mike, I could not find much on it either, nothing at all. I wonder exactly what it was. I believe Tony participated in a fusion/rock project called Arcana, but I don't believe that's what "Unmasked" is.

Charlie is a great player. I don't have much with him, but his contributions on the duet record with Metheny are very nice...... both those guys are such a compatible pair, love the way Haden's bassline provides tension behind Pat's acoustic sitar solo on "Tears of Rain." Charlie's contribution to Pat's "Secret Story" album and the tune "Above the Treetops", is solid as well. He's just playing the changes really but it works very well with Pat's solo. Charlie is also good on Josh Redman's "Wish". Dig the "Blues in the Closet" quote on "Blues For Pat".

thanks Bertrand. Ten of the same tracks? that is just incredibly stupid. Why not include the rest of the performance? what's in place of the Taylor track.... another dumb move on BN's part. It seems to me the DVD would pretty much appeal to hardcore BN and hard bop fans, I don't know how many casual jazz fans would know about the concert.. and also out of jazz fans I know (many of whom are musicians) weren't aware the concert took place. Maybe they released highlights on the DVD because: a) maybe if the purchase was someone's introduction to the artists and by including mostly representative tunes, they would hope the casual fan would seek the original recordings out. b ) perhaps the additional material when Tom originally went over the footage was of unreleasable quality (maybe the digital film degraded too much, or just bad shots? I remember he said the whole evening was captured by early digital cameras) It's just great to have this music available again on DVD but they could have released the thing on one 2 DVD set. Oh yes, anyone notice on "Summertime" in the first wide stage shot you see some damage in the film? a grey line appears like the type when a video tape is watched too much or theres a wrinkle in the film. Just something I noticed the other day.

speaking of Herbie in a trio: there are two DVD's that I presume are the same performance with Ron Carter and Billy Cobham: Hurricane! and World of Rhythm Live. Are these both the same or does one have more performances than the other? And is one better quality

thanks Jim. I know that by then when those guys were playing in the inside-outside style by 1977 it wasn't anything revolutionary but within a tradition so I think for the VSOP records that where the enjoyment of them lie in that they play within a tradition maybe not as heavy on the consistent elasticity as 10 years before but with enough oomph that it was still fairly fresh. Another album I enjoy is Herbie Hancock Trio '81. Again,nothing revolutionary but things swing very hard, and hey it's Herbie in a trio something he's not featured enough with on record.

ahh... found some info attributing "Solar" to Wayne: from an AAJ article reviewing a Wayne album. This is mid sentence but it contains the info claiming Wayne wrote the tune. "Since the classic “Solar” is now recognized as a Chuck Wayne composition (see the Feather & Gitler: The Biographical Encyclopedia of Jazz)" it then goes onto say how Wayne should be looked at as a serious contributor, frankly I was not aware of his name until I heard such info a while back.

Mike, I had read/heard (forget where now) somewhere recently that there was information that Wayne had written "Solar" as opposed to Davis. Could it have been in the bio of Wayne's recently reissued Prestige session on OJC maybe? not sure. Anyway, in a recent live show I have of the Pat Metheny Trio from 11/1/03 on my computer at my dorm, Pat even says the tune may have been written by Chuck Wayne, not Miles, but he was not totally sure either. FWIW on Pat's "Question and Answer" album from '89 with Holland and Haynes, the back cover credits the tune to Davis as ©1955 Prestige Music

Mike, yes, I was referring to Tony's '93 Atlantic album, unfortunately I haven't heard it. On a second spin of "Tribute to Miles", the pedestrian nature of the music is setting in a little bit, which maybe I was sort of expecting because of the opinions expressed here, and it also got me thinking about the nature of acoustic jazz albums in the 90's being a little on the bland side. I used to listen to WSQX 91.5 the local jazz station here in Binghamton back in the mid 90's when it started and a lot of the recordings they played were pretty conservativve-- though there were some curves like Metheny's "Stranger in Town", and with men the caliber of Shorter, Hancock, Carter and Williams, men who more often than not were capable of stretching the boundaries, even compared to the early VSOP forays, it's a shame that they stayed a bit in the box for the "Tribute" disc, but still something nice to have in the collection. I've traded discs in before and wound up missing shit even though I'd never buy something again. As for that rhythm section, next step is the Plugged Nickel box when I have more $$ to burn, and how is Ron Carter's "Third Plane"?

Tjazz, yep, seems so, if that bonus CD includes most/all of those performances left off the DVD. I hope when it's re released some of the sites put up a track listing so it'd be easier to make a decision. If it includes most of the same tracks plus two or three of the remaining tracks, it wouldn't be worth it at all, but man they should have done this the first time, packaging it all together :-p

alright, I got the album and listened to it. It's not that bad; something that would make a nice occasional listen (as I like to listen to different versions of tunres and compare/contrast) and also something to throw on unsuspecting listeners (such as my suitemate at school who isn't a jazz fan per se but tolerate) to see if they recognize the difference betweren these renditions and the originals. I'm glad to have the original recordings because had I grabbed it when it came out (I wasn't as critical them as now) I woulda thought it was excellent and not take into account these guys were kind of in a safety zone with the material here. That said, I do enjoy that tune "Elegy", quite a bit of Shorter's playing, and Herbie's "All Blues" solo cracks me up cuz you always when that trill is coming in a climax of a solo But, I pretty much agree now with everything said here.

So, "Trane's Blues" or "Vierd Blues" whatever one wishes to title it could have been a stock riff like "Royal Roost/Tenor Madness/Sportin'Crowd" that either Miles or Trane could have come up with on the spot and therefore the tune gets credited to them? What about in the case of "Solar" which we now know is written by Chuck Wayne, I have never seen it credited as such. Is that the case maybe b/c Miles was more of a "name" of the two and therefore got the credit?

Don't know what Wallace is up to now Mike. Was that encore "Chameleon"? that's what it is on the DVD, Darrell Diaz solos on what was Herbie's Arp Soloist spot on the original, and then of course IMO, (haven't heard too many versions of "Chameleon" by Herbie) he nails a solo on acoustic that *nearly* comes close to the original in the heat factor, and that is very hard to do. When I was listening to disc 1 of Tokyo Live the other night, I was thinking the JM parallel too, although the music was pretty advanced compared to that Blakey groove. Didn't Tony actually release a rock album in the 90's called "The Mask"? Before he died he was discussing starting a rock band.

I agree with you about Freddie, Jim. To all that VSOP music Freddie really brought a quality that is really very distinctive, whereas it's very easy for someone to kind of tip a cap to Miles via the use of the harmon, minimalism in phrasing, etc, whereas someone in the general public could say "sounds like Miles!" whereas it is much more difficult for a non jazz fan to say "oh yeah, Freddie Hubbard". I'd agree. I've been thinking about Roney lately, b/c I have a friend who got the "Miles and Quincy: Live at Montreux" CD for x-mas and thought it was one of the most amazing things he's ever heard. I've heard some soundclips of it and find it to be quite sad b/c Miles really was at the end at that point, and my friend felt Miles was really "on" where more than likely he was hearing Wallace, and I think in that instance he definitely was a huge role-player. He had said he was unable to tell who's who, which I could understand, since many people do not critically listen and analyze the goings on at the same time. I explained to him that the stronger playing was more than likely Wallace because, at that point Miles had gone back to sticking with the middle registers of the horn after that incredibly stratospheric playing of the 60's-early 70's, and that Miles had said the material was just to hard. I also explained that Wallace's phrasing points more to mid 60's Miles and that he does have his own way of expressing ideas. Here I definitely realize how some consider Wallace to be a "clone" (not what I believe personally), but I've noticed recently (like on the Herbie Future2Future DVD) he has more of his own thing going on. In the Jazz in American Music class I TA'ed last semester, we used Wallace as an example of someone who was playing hard bop/post bop oriented jazz and carrying the flame of men like Davis, b/c it was important to explain that these styles are still being played today, especially since before the start of the semester many of these students had no idea of what jazz really was. Anyway, to get back to the original point, I understand how role playing can be dissapointing, especially when giants are capable of so much more. I think, based on what I've heard from Wallace lately (mainly the aforementioned Herbie DVD) his playing has definitely evolved into something able to step out of the shadows, maybe not entirely, but certainly enough to avoid cries of "hack". Another player who I feel has done this recently is Joey DeFrancesco.

Jim, interesting point you make about by the time "Tribute" was released, all the questions that existed about where or not those guys could return to straight ahead, how would Freddie work etc....... were answered and the buzz about those cats playing that style again greatly hushed, for what reasons say, were Tony Williams' quintet not criticized? that quintet was in the style of Miles' mid 60's straight ahead, he had Wallace on trumpet filling a Miles-esque role, a very individual voice in Bill Pierce, an excellent player in Mulgrew Miller, who's is a big part of "Tokyo Live" (a great album) his playing is in the mode of Herbie and also McCoy on this disc but still hip. To my knowledge no one had complained it was a retread like how critics complained about Wynton's early playing for example. Tony was a hell of a writer as the record shows, too. Was part of the appeal of Williams' playing in this style during the period of the mid 80's-early 90's, regarded as somewhat more "genuine" because he was a founder rather than a follower, or because he was generally finding interesting things to say compositionally rather than derivative? (e.g. Wynton's "Waterfalls" off Bu's Keystone 3)

very nice interview, will have to check the recording out sometime--not all that keen on lots of vocals tho. Will have to get some of the essentials (need Song for my Father RVG, buy Finger Poppin again, Blowin the Blues Away, etc) first. Nice to know Horace has a lot of music in reserve. Let's hope he gets to record it.

Anyone want to shoot off an email to MC to obtain track info for the CD? When I called Mosaic this morning I called off my cel which is prepaid, so in the interest watching my minutes I didn't ask what everything wanted...... based on tracks that did NOT make the cut, I wonder if any or all will be included: "Broadside" "Passion Dance" "Blues on the Corner" "I'm Getting Sentimental Over You" "El Encanto" "The Blessing" "Lady Day"( I think that was the title) "When You Wish Upon a Star" "I'm Glad There is You" "Hat and Beard" I would buy the re release if the CD contained these tracks, if it was merely a CD of the tracks on the DVD or most of them, it's an idiotic package.

I wasn't aware that Draper put together the band on that record, so that's nice to know, though for me from what I remember of that record in the Prestige box (which I unfortunately had to sell when tight on money) is that it wasn't that interesting compared to some of the other music on the set. The tenor/tuba did create a nice dark tone color for the frontline though. Chris, do you remember what Verve session Edwards produced for Jimmy? I believe he also was involved with "Off the Top" in 1982 as well.

Thanks for the link Aggie, will check it out in a bit. Wow, there seems to be a unanimous decision that the "A Tribute to Miles" is really bad.............. I should have made this thread before I ordered (it'll be here tommorrow) I did d/l All Blues from it a long time ago and liked it, so that sort of led me on to the disc, in addition to my want to complete a VSOP collection. I'll make a better judgement after hearing the whole thing when it arrives, but as their are many educated well thought out opinions here that very often resonate with my own regarding albums, the record could very well sound flat to me too. This thread seems to be an interesting window into why many tributes don't come off (that Endless Miles thing was a nice webcast but probably didn't come off as a CD, dunno, never bought it) maybe because we as fans of particular artists, have such a reverence for their original versions of tunes, and the magic possesed within that those same artists, or other artists covering the same tunes years later doesn't work. With all that said, the live DVD of Chick Corea's "Remembering Bud Powell" was a pretty nice tribute that came off well.

True, Dan, and it makes you wonder what if Weinstock had signed Smith. If Smith had been a Prestige artist instead of Blue Note, would the quality of his sessions be consistently as high as they were for Blue Note? and what players might have been on those sessions? (this would be an interesting exercise for us to think up names and such) judging from someone like Trane's Prestige sessions, much of the output is great, yet there were a few misses along the way-- the Ray Draper session, for example. Also, if Smith were on Prestige, most of his sessions would probably be available on OJC, whereas now we tend to clamor for some select BN sessions not currently available. Besides, weren't most of Prestige's organ sessions cut with other producers such as Ozzie Cadena, Esmond Edwards and Bob Porter (who as I understand was a champion of jazz organ)?

I gathered that there were 10 performances that have yet to make the cut, but still 2 or 3 left over..... I'm hoping that the CD isn't like 7 tracks off the DVD and 3 of the leftovers, or 6 from the DVD and 4 new, etc.... cuz it wouldn't make too much sense, and yes I was wondering why didn't they do it like that the first time myself, releasing it all in one package.