MomsMobley

And you're missing almost nothing except sweet oxygen so breathe deep and get better. (Columbia-era) Bernstein Mahler destroys Zinman on every possible level (largely mediocre SACD is still mediocre) at the same price, just be glad we're past the insipd "Prince" Charles' watercolors-era which caused Bernstein CD collectors no small amount of grief in the 1990s/early '00s. http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Complete-Symphonies-Gustav/dp/B005SJIP1E http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Complete-Symphonies-Carnegie-Presents/dp/B001TIQT98 Also, the for small handful of very good recordings Perahia has made, there are dozens of dull, precious, misguidedly "limpid" ones, why bother when Murray's repertoire is almost uniformly standard & alternatives are many? Yves Nat coffret >>>>>>> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ses-Enregistrements-1930-1956-Yves-Nat/dp/B000BS6Y74 it appears out of print at present but when the Marcelle Meyer coffret comes back, as it likely will, don't hestitate. http://www.amazon.fr/Marcelle-Meyer-enregistrements-1925-Coffret/dp/B000KRMWLS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikY_4koQrKg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r6GzEsmbFM

exactly, that's why I threw out the Philly stuff. if this clown wasn't entirely fronting, picking up some $$$ and another NYRB byline, he could actually do something useful and place the concert in context of Coltrane's bio, Coltrane as southern born, northern raised U.S. Navy veteran whose intense tutelage, intense exploration beyond that, a unique assimilation of virtuosic chops & methodical, radical examination of what "jazz" music can be qua structure (including some notable compositions of his own) & sound... returns to Philadelphia, Temple University, one of the public universities of Pennsylvania in heart of black & blackening north Philly etc... There's ** A LOT ** to explore there even w/o foreshadowing imminent death. What was Coltrane trying to communicate & to whom? Returning to Philly is different than another night at the Vanguard is different than Tokyo etc. If Dyer researches, thinks about these things & still comes out unmoved or even antagonistic, alright, FINE-- anyone can disagree-- but... in arrogance & ignorance both he's done none of that, nor, plainly, is he even capable of simple taxonomic description, thus the weak attempts at diversion, conflation of all those albums you cite above & more. Be hilarious-- & telling-- if NYRB had done a double review; assign it to Dyer and, say, Greg Tate or John Szwed, who was in Philly then or shortly would be, and see what happens. And if they assigned or accepted the pitch from Dyer knowing his ah, "peculiar" limitations as listener/HACK, the question becomes WHY? Just play the song, John, don't get 'uppity' like some of these other...

Bogdan, let's take it from top then. Music maestro, please! Offering: Live at Temple University offers further evidence of the catastrophe of the last phase of John Coltrane’s work. no comment. “Last” rather than “late” because he became ill and died too suddenly (on July 17, 1967), too early, to have properly entered a late period. He was forty. In any other field of activity that would be a desperately short life. Only in jazz could it be considered broadly in line with actuarial norms. Henry Purcell (1659-1695)-- age 36 Giovanni Pergolesi (1710-1736)-- age 26 Wolfgang Mozart (1756-1791)-- age 35 Franz Schubert (1797-1828)-- age 31 Felix Mendelssohn (1809-1847)-- age 38 Chopin (1810-1849)-- age 39 George Gershwin (1898-1937)-- age 38 etc etc i'll stop before World War II but hello, compare like to like, or would bringing musicians of similar historical stature into the conversation further reveal the author's idiocy rather than faux 'authority'? "Actuarial" is bullshit diversion, like he's about to offer a deeply researched socio-aesthetic discourse... right. I'm not suggesting there isn't AMPLE room for aesthetic criticism of Coltrane-- if someone wants to go that route, hey, the narrow road is open-- but Dyer is an arrogant simp.

Mods Squad, I'm OK with changing subject line to more clearly place blame where its deserved: * insipid NYRB critic Geoff Dyer * idiotic and/or wholly-- but 'innocently'-- clueless New York Review Book editor(s) Q: I wonder how many times, if any, Geoff has been to Philadelphia & what he did if was there. One can, if they wish, make a musicological argument without knowing the Schuykill from the Delaware but that's not what this fucking simp is playing at here-- at all. also, for Sunday morning--

LK, esteemed commenter, in theory, it shouldn't have anything to do with; in this instance, his thuggish drivel exacerbated by cultural ignorance/arrogance-- take your pick or choose both. didn't mean to imply there weren't excellent white critics & historians of myriad nationalities! (i'll leave NYRB's less-than-spectacular roster of black writers-- on any subjects-- for another discussion tho' that too is suggestive of how an editor would assign &/or accept this drivel.)

so now ya'll know http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/gallery/2014/oct/04/catastrophic-coltrane/ i just noticed from the comments i'm late but since i imagine i'm not alone in usually ignoring this idiocy... i do "love" that this turd throws "Adorno" into the mix; like that "helped" Schoenberg any either!

J. yes, stick to repertoire that grabs you & furrow from there. I drift in & out of older musics myself; there was a time in mid-90s however I went ALL medieval, renaissance & baroque, thought I shoulld work on 'fundamentals' or whatever, thankfully it was time when 'early music' ensembles were really starting to cook, throwing off romantic accretions & timid scholarship, sometimes dubious chops of '60s through '80s... there are some awful American & English early music groups, for example, that would scare anyone off even Bach, let alone Handel or Rameau... which shit is often virtuosic in the bebop sense so if you can't gimme at least that... thankfully tho', and Petibon's great hair is part of it, there are goodly # of musicians, instrumentalists & singers, who have the chops & gumption to make things as exciting, fresh as they were always intended to be. The French know how to dance too.

Christine Schaefer preceding & complementary to Petibon-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfdP4II20Cg earlier rep with good band, she's esp. excellent in Handel here & elsewhere-- check out her Rameau also--

Memphis Slim, Blue Memphis

...because I witnessed an example of that, Sonny going in between the time so much that the end result was "like" levitating in time, like you started out in one place, then went up into the air and then came back down to earth in the spot where you were supposed to be, but...how did you get there, it was not a linear path, it was like...I don't know, levitation is the best word I can think of for it. And because I was kind of like, WHOA, WTF was THAT????? I started looking around, and I saw Cranshaw just kind of shake his head, shift his body, and get back to normal, like, ok, yeah, he just did that to us, and I look around at the people in the seats, and many of them are doing the same thing, perhaps consciously, perhaps not, who knows, but yeah, Sonny can indeed "do some things". Also, fwiw, this was done on one of those "funk" type tunes, not on a standard, so the myth that Sonny didn't really have his heart into any of "that" stuff...that's not the right argument to have, I'd say. In the last year or two there was a good long interview with Clifton Anderson on WKCR... And we can nearly all say we don't listen for the trombone solos but obviously Clifron knows a thing or three about Sonny and is himself a fine musician... Worth looking for in the underground. re: OP, he may not be among the top 50 most interesting jazz pianists but he performed certain functions very well; Hersch, at best, is a footnote and Jarrett, both in both gospel ostinato and inane 'standards' blather is insufferable. I used to tolerate the idea that his banal success lets ECM do this/that more interesting, vastly more worthy but...

frankie newton at the onyx club woody herman in disco order

Carl & Dennis & ....

true, and of course Bird, Gene Ammons etc are & always will still be awesome; if there are folks who can achieve even significant % of their brilliance/sound/technique... But I keep thinking of the big bands, and arrangers*, composers and the capable musicians who are not heard at what could be better/best.. Not to quash anyone's enthusiasm (really) but when a guy like Tony Malably is touted as some great 'risk taker'... Or that ** anyone ** ever got laid inviting someone to listen to their "Sun Bear Concerts" box... true, it mght as well be useful for fucking something but... *Ralph Burns -->

Excellent to hear! Once you get into it you can really understand the fascination the form/sounds can have for composer, musician, listener... akin to Ellington or Sun Ra. And sure, there's a lot of lesser or merely well crafted classical compositions-- & performers-- also, but all in all, the potential-- and frequently enough-- the payoff is fantastic. to conflate threads, it's much to Braxton's credit what he's going for with the operas as works of musical theater, combining, in theory, some of the best qualities of classical composition, jazz improv, dance etc. Except at the very very highest levels of restructuralist etc like Sonny, playing changes on standards doesn't cut it, nor does whatever variety of erstwhile 'free' blowing, bracing as certain moments can be. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOaiD7DHO2o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIoHngLypJQ

I'd have to double check but I think Takacs-- though still fine-- is one of those groups which have cycled though all-- no check that, all but the cellist... like when I saw the "Tokyo String Quartet" in the late '90s and well, at least they were Japanese!

Definitely LK. The Hogwood Beethoven sounds nice and is mostly quiet good but... not quite good enough compared to best HIP or modern/HIP hybirds like Emmanuel Krivine. The Mozart & Vivaldi, most of the Handel & Bach etc... is "interesting" for the time but I don't think there's any question 1) Hogwood got better and 2) the whole movement got A LOT better. It's a fair argument too who was "better," Hogwood or Neville Marriner, say, with ASMF but unless your English and have a lot invested in a vinyl classical collection, it's a fool's game to sort it out when dozens upon dozens of fantastic French/Italian/German groups have revivified SOUND and performance practice so brilliantly. (Plus some of Hogwood's singers in Handel, Haydn are tough to take; he's FAR from alone in that-- it ruined a generation of UK and US sourced baroque recordings but...) some lesser known top notch Hogwood is his Gade series on Chandos btw; not saying everyone "needs" the music but if interests lead one to the period/place... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkDxfLH84mY

+ the earlier http://www.amazon.com/Martinu-cuisine-Christmas-Sinfonietta-ricercari/dp/B00000E4XT some of CH's baroque & classical period performances could be slightly bland in the Limey tradition but he could 'goose' it up when called for, inspired also. His William Byrd "My Ladye Nevelle's Books" is still valuable also. The Mozart PC series with Robert Levin is especially fine, hard to believe-- pace another thread-- people still tolerate say the ultra-bland conducting of Murray Perahaia & numerous others compared to later Hogood (he actually got better, or at least more lively, as a conductor) and best German/French +++ "alte" masters. I generally value CH most in lesser known middle-period Haydn symphonies but I wouldn't have walked outta this early--

Those of ya'll who enjoy Perahia Mozart should hear the Andras Schiff integrale conducted by Sandor Vegh; not that Schiff is all that much woolier (alas) but Vegh conducting the Salzburg Mozarteum DESTROYS Murray & the ECO in every conceivable way. An even greater step for those accustomed to the generalized blandness (and that's absolutely what it is) of Perahia/ECO can he heard in the recordings-- not complete-- of Andreas Staier with the Concerto Koln. Given Mozart's genius as orchestral composer etc, nobody should settle for the ubiquitous less. (Again, I'm not hugely suggesting Schiff over Perahia in this repertoire-- both musicians made MUCH better recordings of other repertoire later-- but Vegh >>>>>>>.) re: violin concertos... Nielsen, Sibelius, Berg, Szymanowski, Reger, Petterson, Hindemith, Korngold, Penderecki, Prokofiev, DSCH, Elgar, Walton, Delius, Rautavaara, Frank Martin, Bartok, Delius, Martinu...

Kofksy is a middlebrow jackass; just because he was a so-called "Marxist" middlebrow changes this naught, as his non-jass works demonstrate. He may or may not be an "interesting" foil-- fuck, he might as well be useful for something but ofay was in way over his head in every possible way. Jones was an intermittently great poet/prose writer, "interesting" polemicist & more than half a horse's ass as "critic." If we just called him an "experiencer"-- though not Anthony Braxton's ideal "friendly experiencer"!-- everyone would have been much better off. Indeed, thought of Anthony is perhaps instructive for this whole discussion, as HIS capacious aesthetic is far closer to demonstrable & reasonable intuitied historical truths than the bulk of most books. Not that AB is the world or The Word but... Also, tho' I love Tapscott, his relative lack of discography in addition to geography is partly to blame. Hell, tho' he's white, look at the relative lack of acclaim/interest Vinny Golia gets... I can understand, sorta, if you're a woodwinds hater but otherwise... Re: Peacock or Grimes, are you familiar w/ the great Steve Brown? (It's doesn't matter if it's unlikely Peacock or Grimes did; indeed, if Peacock knew anything about Bill Challis he couldn't suffer Jarrett's 'standards' crap regardless of the $$$.) And as for "energy music," it's pretty hard to take the category as such seriously EXCEPT as part continuum & judged according to those standards. Remind why I should give a f about Paul Motian again? (Would be very interesting to talk to Cecil about dance, however, esp. re: Balanchine and Michael Kidd.)

That's true CT though it's been so long since I looked at Val Wilmer, I don't recall to what extent she qualified her group portrait. (Would she even have known who Horace Tapscott is? That Sonny Criss album kills but...) Granted, the same-- or at least similar-- things have happened in classical historiography, especially the inane vilification of Schoenberg, though that at least admits-- & even promotes-- a counter narrative and-- let's face it-- the level of general discourse of significantly higher (though not without its knowledgeable cranks, cf. Richard Taruskin). Debussy and Schoenberg and Bartok, not either/or, etc. This is one reason I've felt uncomfortable with the "fire music" schtick, not always to objection but it's hard to argue in its favor other than as the title of one specific Shepp album. Matthew Shipp was on WKCR last week with Mitch Goldberg and the subject of the show was the Giuffre-Bley-Swallow trio, Matthew being a huge Bley admirer and always ready to zing Keith Jarrett also. Look ma, no drummer! Not a huge Smiley Winters fan but she definiitely had her moments, "Odds Against Tomorrow," natch, &

just need to sit in to note that even as 'provocation,' that's an astonishingly inane statement by Iverson (big surprise). 'American Quartet' is dogshit, not even Dewey can redeem that crap, its "influence" wholly baneful & looky looky (here comes cookie), there's Motian-ex Bill Frisell doing the omniverse's worst imaginable "Americana" Beatles covers! what a legacy. tho' I think this is a worthwhile discussion, the idea of "a" narrative is inane-- was, is, always will be. There was, in fact, no such thing & to whatever wht extent one has been propagated by simps on both sides of the aisle is a reflection of their own ignorance, unwillingness to do the historical research.