MomsMobley

Lots of people are called "giants", but few truly are. B.B. King was a gaint, and you don't kill a giant, they don't die, they just move on to the next phase. RIP to a genuine giant.

thank you. i gotta head out now but i'll bring back black & white cookies for anyone who wants-- lemme know.

Of course there are correct answers; we're talking musicology, not your favorite cookie. And while Beethoven has melodic moments etc... his genius is motivic And while Schubert did some astonishing things with developement, his genius is melodic These are the correct answers. Where one might 'rank' these in world historical competition Chuck posits is subjective, si, but blurring bar lines of musical construction/comprehension is the answer to nothing. And because I hestitated to start with even, say, Buxtehude or Handel... and this not even broaching the madrigals (which is as misleading as considering Schubert without lied...)

if not Schubert-- and the correct answers are probably Schubert and Rossini-- then Prokofiev who did so many things so well he's often underrated; Serge encore at 40:30 mark Gilels Three Oranges obviously not most melodic compared to hours of melody in the ballets etc but worth seeing anyway Ornette yes Ayler no

MUCH better than most 'star' pianists of her generation & after, her perspicacity reflected in relative modest discography, repertoire could/should have been (much) more venturesome in both 19th/20th c. esp. since she won Busoni competition, didn't even record Villa-Lobos 11, a goddamn shame, still her late period chamber programmes etc estimable within bounds, her Ravel & Prokofiev are ace, etc... whether you need want the same goddamn few handfuls of works as ten jillion saps perform/record... i dunno. Certainly any Argerich is better than all Perahia (say) but when there's so much else to learn... strength: beat cancer. weakness: repertoire. Christina Ortiz / John Neschling Argerich / Previn

If you only want "great" albums in your collection, don't bother. If you don't mind forking out small beer for an album that's merely enjoyable, and honest though commercial, pick up "Everybody come on out" or "Use the stairs" both on Fantasy LPs which I'm sure you can find cheap, or "More than a mood" (Music Masters), which is straight ahead stuff with Freddie Hubbard (and that one's deleted, too). MG --->

Oh, I agree "Lady In Satin" the original album is very interesting-- and a worthwhile listen in terms of biography-- musical & otherwise-- & the biz she worked with, struggled within. Skepticism born of obvious fact that how/why are two discs of outtakes only now emerging one of thee icons 20th c. American music, one with substantial non-jazz audience.. It seems highly unlikely this material wasn't looked at previously, though it's not like much was learned-- not like much could be learned-- from all those Commodore alternate takes, save that third take of "He's Funny That Way" when Eddie Heywood quotes the Chico Marx version of "On The Beach at Bali Bali"--

John was a great goddamn musician-- he could even make you think Stefan Grossman was soulful, which he assuredly is not. check out John's home page & the collage of inspiration he posted; gives good measure of the depths-- inc. much blues & a heavy dose of American Beat-- he was drawing from. http://www.johnrenbourn.co.uk/inspirers/ as noted elsewhere, live John would do a fine version "Buckets of Rain," the only tolerable song from callow, insipid "Blood On The Tracks" and then wash it down with Randy Weston "Little Niles." etc etc

What interests you about his composition compared to those of his like minded avant- contemporaries? Except maybe the 'landmark'(-ish) piano sonatas, Boulez the composer is second rate. He's written relatiely little and then tediously, endlessly fiddled with that not because he's a "perfectionist" but because he has a paucity of ideas, most of which are midding at best. Boulez can be an excellent conductor, though very few of his DG era recordings demonstrate that and even there, the repertoire he's chosen to record has been pretty goddamn middlebrow, for all his ersatz high modernism shuck. Indeed, Boulez's for an erstwhile "radical," Boulez has shown remarkably provincial, pedestrian tastes, especially given his long-term state & corporate subsidized power.

impossible to believe this will be anything but filler and garbage; and "they" waited so long to exacavate why again? because the quality of Satan was so high and there were so many unanswered questions the first time round? 7/4, a week long WKCR Billie festival is lame-- the discography doesn't sustain that level of immersion; compare to the week (or was it two?) they did the Duke centennial (i think it was two), which was never less than thrilling. And even a fucking "Mary Poppins" box set has more potential than three CDs of Satan even if each comes packaged in a custom monogrammed BH Sateen sleeve. Maybe if rumors about the string section breaking out to jam on Korngold's transcription of the Hadyn kazoo quartet prove to be true it might be worth a novelty listen. get behind me satin satin in high heels

Life's too short, world too vast, big music biz nearly always too banal then & now, do yourself a favor by skipping BOTH boxes & buying x # of CDs of new (to you) different repertoire. NONE of the performances by either Graffman or Fleisher or all that compared to best you've already heard elsewhere-- most interesting thing in the Fleisher is actually later one-hand set with the Schmidt & Korngold quintets. Otherwise, why not the Ahmed Adnan Saygun piano concertos? (There's an excellent two-cd set on CPO) granted the Busoni is a half-- maybe less-- a warhorse-- a quarterhorse?-- itself but... it goes places, forwards and back, most of Graff/Fleish don't even suggest-- though they should have.

best brooklyn jazz album cover in history, if dmitry was still around he'd know exactly where this is... some of those live tapes with Monk deserve much wider recognition.

... and what would the music have sounded like? Keepnews put Joe in a lot of different contexts whereas his live gigs were all following the same basic scheme. But, realistically-- i.e. financially-- what options did Joe have? Barely enough work and $$$ to keep a small group going, let alone anything more "ambitious," i.e. costly. 29 April 1972 Billboard https://books.google.com/books?id=mEUEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA14&dq=joe%20henderson%20orrin%20keepnews&pg=PA14#v=onepage&q=joe%20henderson%20orrin%20keepnews&f=false "He is working on an lp with Joe Henderson which an amalgam of ideas and technologies. Henderson is a new member of Blood, Sweat and Tears, and his playing of tenor sax, soprano sax, flute and alto sax turns him into his own band. He will play all these instruments on the upcoming Milestone LP*. Multi-tracking and overdubbing will be used to generate an excitement which rock listeners can appreciate." * Black Is The Color

R. Bialek Buys Milestone Line Billboard 2 September 1967 https://books.google.com/books?id=fCgEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA10&dq=milestone%20records%20dick%20katz&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q=milestone%20records%20dick%20katz&f=false Audio Fidelity to Distribute Milestone Line Billboard 24 October 1970 (Dick Katz, President, Keepnews back from recording Joe at the Lighthouse) https://books.google.com/books?id=gSkEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA3&dq=milestone%20records%20dick%20katz&pg=PA3#v=onepage&q=milestone%20records%20dick%20katz&f=false Fantasy Adds Milestone Line Billboard 2 December 1972 https://books.google.com/books?id=Ig8EAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA4&dq=fantasy%20milestone%20billboard&pg=PA4#v=onepage&q=fantasy%20milestone%20billboard&f=false

Bill Grauer, 40, Dies Suddenly, Billboard, December 28, 1963 https://books.google.com/books?id=SwsEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA4&dq=bill%20grauer%20riverside&pg=PA4#v=onepage&q=bill%20grauer%20riverside&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=AUUEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA16&dq=bill%20grauer&pg=PA16#v=onepage&q=bill%20grauer&f=false Now, is it "possible" Keepnews was the 'brains' and 'soul' of the operation and he considered Grauer nothing more than a useful hustler? And is it also possible Keepnews rarely spoke of Grauer out of politeness, not egotism? Seems highly unlikely but... Makes you wonder, though, what Billboard, politically correctly (??) tried to hint at by stating "The mistakes he might have made were done with the same boldness he built the firm". I think there's little question that Riverside was NOT, at least at certain points, a 'conservatively' run record company; indeed, think of hustling indies in other genres, and of the 1950s/60s independent record biz in general, and that's to be expected. But, it also seems clear it was that very boldness that gave Keepnews the window to do whatever things of merit he actually did. Has there been a Wonderland Records-- Riverside's children's label-- thread before? http://www.discogs.com/label/356330-Wonderland-Records-7 If anyone has the 2 January 1964 "Downbeat" at hand, there was an article on Riverside's bankruptcy there. https://books.google.com/books?id=F6wJAQAAMAAJ&q=grauer+bankruptcy+downbeat&dq=grauer+bankruptcy+downbeat&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qCj3VNe0CK7isATWlYDwAw&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAQ $3,056,000 in liabilities $1,300,000 in assets Textile Bank of New York largest creditor Would be interesting for some intrepid scholar to get the federal court records ...

Without Bill Grauer, there's no Riverside "up" to come down-- simple as that. Also, I'm pretty sure we don't know enough about Riverside & its associated labels internal accounting & management to say Grauer was "irresponsible." Lotsa variables there... See these Billboard mag articles 1960-1964 for starters-- https://books.google.com/books?id=4x4EAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA12&dq=bill%20grauer&pg=PA12#v=onepage&q=bill%20grauer&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=LkUEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA32&dq=bill%20grauer&pg=PA32#v=onepage&q=bill%20grauer&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=zBMEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA30&dq=bill%20grauer&pg=PA30#v=onepage&q=bill%20grauer&f=false Bill Grauer, 40, Dies Suddenly, Billboard, December 28, 1963 https://books.google.com/books?id=SwsEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA4&dq=bill%20grauer%20riverside&pg=PA4#v=onepage&q=bill%20grauer%20riverside&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=AUUEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA16&dq=bill%20grauer&pg=PA16#v=onepage&q=bill%20grauer&f=false Now, is it "possible" Keepnews was the 'brains' and 'soul' of the operation and he considered Grauer nothing more than a useful hustler? And is it also possible Keepnews rarely spoke of Grauer out of politeness, not egotism? Seems highly unlikely but... Now, if we want to talk about the great Gene Deitch

Duaneiac, I ask this respectfully, why don't you tell us about Bill Grauer & if you have nothing say about Bill Grauer yet... have such a strong feeling for Orrin Keepnews... why might that be? I defy anyone to read Keepnews' book and come away with a "better" opinion of the man-- or the professional-- than they began with. Ironic since much of his life was seemingly devoted to burnishing (inventing?) his own reputation but there you go. Sometimes acute self-conciousness comes out the other end, revealing truths one intended to obscure. *** LK, agreed on the transition of "Kulchur"; I like Berrigan but... I've also been going through the run of Jones/DiPrima "Floating Bear"; I can't recall which-- I think "Kulchur"-- but besides John, it was great to see a terrific poet like Kenneth Irby-- check him out Clifford Thornton, if you don't already know you'll quickly see why I point out) writing about music there-- Ellington I think?

that's it, excellent! I first got into Roy Hawkins via the Route 66 lp, "Why Does Everything Happen To Me?" but reason that came to mind besides the B.B. connection is underknown guitarist Ulysses James, who plays on a bunch of those sides. Here's a good little appreciation of both-- http://sundayblues.org/archives/50/comment-page-1

Tom, the DJ was the great Mitch Goldman, close friend & I believe former tour manager for Shannon Jackson, among myriad other credits. His "Deep Focus" programs are almost uniformly great, though I recall a Jarrett show and maybe sentimental-era Charlie Haden that did nothing to persuade me I shouldn't dislike/not listen to their respective musics.

DG, while we're on slight detour, you know Texas-to-California bluesman Roy Hawkins, si? Not just "The Thrill Is Gone"!

And how could it be otherwise? https://books.google.com/books?id=jk3Bx7KfdO8C&lpg=PA295&dq=orrin%20keepnews&pg=PA295#v=onepage&q=orrin%20keepnews&f=false "The guy thought he knew everything. He talked all the time and never listened." -- Randy Weston btw, I discovered Keepnews ridiculousness from an impeccable source-- himself, when in ignorance I bought his book at some Half Price Books years ago, pre- jazz bulletin boards so all one "knew" was public writing and whatever level of personal/scene experience one had. Bet we could do, say... a Lester Koenig thread and nobody would have a cross word or anecdote. # of times Keepnews is mentioned in Arthur Taylor's "Notes and Tones": precisely zero, which is, I suppose, better than being castigated but perhaps also indicative of his "importance" and certainly his affability/empathy (as opposed to paternalism.)