MomsMobley

El Jefe, just lost longer reply-- RJ at his best was effective guitarist but also diminution, transitionary figure. He sings OK but it's not 'haunting,' just schtick, which you can tell from all the mediocre-to-lesser sides where the schtick doesn't work. (Compare to Skip James. Now Lemon Jefferson has some lesser sides also, in which he's clearly simplified his style at producer's behest before and after he's awesome.) re: "Love in Vain"... you mean red light / blue light... like this? (sidenote to JSngry: note "Port Arthur" too.) Now you've heard this I'm sure-- as did Robert Johnson.

Columbia 1961 *** now, if we want talk about Okeh to Columbia & the rule of Don Law, that's another, mostly welcome, issue. *** Don Kent has excellent story about doing mail order for Bob K. early (first?) Chicago JRM store, Big Joe Williams drives up, tired, sleeps in same basement Don is working... There are mice down there, Joe sleeps naked... It's also via Don we know about Bob going to 1963 March on Washington, not that that's secret but I'd not heard it before... Don Kent on "Cairo," from John's Old Time Radio Show-- http://www.eastriverstringband.com/radioshow/?p=1449

Thank you. And I know you're a serious listener JL but it has little to nothing to do with 'fashion' per se. FACT: Robert Johnson offers absolutely nothing, ZERO, in terms of lyricism. There are precisely NO known verses by him that evince any individuality and even the assemblages are generally trite. That leaves the singing & guitar playing. On his best sides-- which I'll number four or five, no more, yes, he's a strong performer... But is that strong enough, just because Mitch Miller's record label said so? Why, when I have the ability to listen jazz-pop-blues 1923-1935 (say, though I strong advise all extend that back to the 1890s via Archeophone etc) am I supposed to stop in my tracks when Robert Johnson shows up in 1936 with marginally sharp, somewhat better sounding but also often rather simplified, 'standardized' versions of what's passed before? If someone wants to get in the same boat as Greil Marcus AND Eric Clapton, Chango help us all! Luke Jordan, Charley Jordan, Louis Jordan >>>>> ALL have far more to offer Robert Johnson and that's just for starters. I could, on another occasion, argue that Robert Johnson veneration is in some ways racist, or at least reductionist, in its prioritization of white boy bullshit mythos over unruly all black everything and if someone really wants to extol RJ as "Chicago electric blues" progenitor (a dubious assertion to begin with) I can only ask... are you sure that's a "good" thing? it can be, sometimes, true...

100 years later, Robert Johnson is still a decent performer-- on a handful, two handfuls tops-- of songs and creative mediocrity. He's also a mediocre guitarist though if one wants to posit his simplifications as "progressive" and laying groundwork imminent electric etc... fine, whatever. He was the "King" of nothing but a canny Columbia propaganda campaign and the second album still mostly sucks. Mr. Litweiler, were you friends with Don Kent at all when he lived in Chicago? I don't know Don's personal opinion on RJ but he certainly has-- and knows-- the records which glaringly highlight what a fraud the Johnson myth is-- that goes for Robert Lockwood and Johnny Shines dubious recollections etc. Why some people are so invested in this myth is beyond me; granted it's easier to valorize "rock" & corporate sanctified crap than actually work one's way through, say, Tampa Red's astounding discography but that doesn't make it true. Also, this "unfair" & inexact but hyping-- & believing Robert Johnson as anything but a diminution of the tradition he's tail end of is like, I dunno, choosing Lou Donaldson over Bird... people can do whatever they like but it's still ridiculous.

Betty was brilliant and those who dislike her reveal more about their musical limitations-- their black aesethetic or lack thereof-- than hers. also for many years Betty lived a pretty short walk from where Cecil still lives in Fort Greene. re: nets... dejohnette here making more music here than every second he's ever played (or ever will) with fucking Jarrett (granted dem check's are likely bigger)--

http://www.amazon.com/The-Journey-Home-David-Gitin/dp/0912652799 http://www.amazon.com/Passing-Through-David-Gitin/dp/0976492830

Chuck, I've owned about 1/2 of those over the years, great series even when versions not 'definitive' (usually a false grail anyway. I'm guessing they just offer tracklists and not repros of the booklets? Stravinsky, Hindemith, Villa-Lobos, Medtner, Roussel/Schmitt, Bartok were all faves. The Messiaen, Shosty & Elgar I had elsewhere etc. Don't know why EMI can't spend a few hours w/ intern to scan booklets and offer on disc or website but they're hardly the only ones so callous. (Conversely, they occasionally do it right: they're take on a Messiaen Edition remastered Ollie's solo organ works & did include texts.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/arts/music/remembering-what-made-ornette-coleman-a-jazz-visionary.html?smid=tw-nytimesmusic&seid=auto&_r=0 one funeral report, i've seen at least one other. good thing Phil Schaap just shut up and played the records (as if that's a 'service' to anyone, even before nearly all records were available at internet fingertips etc) or else he might have said something to 'offend' etc... Any Organissimonauts make it uptown today?

Concur. The biography is greater than a good % of music per se (Mr Bojangles is vomitous, Beatles covers worse than that etc etc) but lest we forget black ("as night") woman negotiating racist America, brutal show & record biz etc... "Ain't Got No" from "Hair" is excellent however, "Rich Girl" not bad... Was she a hard ass? She'd have been crazy if she wasn't (see also, say, Carmen McRae...) Her "Notes and Tones" interview was good also. I wish her "Brown Eyed Handsome Man" was better but... alas.

Ari Eisinger ---> anyone not stunned has never played fingerstyle guitar, right up there w/ Paul Geremia

Sabine Liebner = great great Cage-ian (& elsehwere Feldman-iac)

"Sing Sing Sing" 1983, aspect ratio a bit off, hail Bob Fosse & Ralph Burns, apologies to Sven Nykvist, great great GREAT movie

Is there an ** exciting ** version of the Mozart flute concertos? Maybe I only saw 'em good nights-- symphonies, overtures, maybe Masonic music warm up?-- late '90s but I thought they were fine-- albeit not in the style I most prefer in Mozart. Even taking Ross at face value, a combination of conductor & musician lassitude seems likely explanation. And, not to put Schwarz on the same level but look what "you" (Chicago, not LK personally) did to Jean Martinon & Rafael Kubelik... And, as I suggested, nearly over "major" NYC orchestra except the Met gets ragged on, perhaps deservedly but... *** Sandow sidenote, from his Fischer-Dieskau memorial And yet… strengths can also be weaknesses, and one could say that Fischer-Dieskau’s tricks with volume make his singing fussy, especially in Bach, where often I wish he’d just let the music speak for itself. http://www.gregsandow.com/old/fdieskau.htm even with scores unseen, I suspect that's something ** everyone ** can agree upon: that Sandow's music is best left to speak for itself. (I've run hot/cold DF-D but finally you gotta say he was a real artist, take or leave or choose wisely etc but I'd NEVER use that old (hack) saw against the man in any repertoire.)

Nobody was saying Schwarz was, say, Rene Jacobs, but he's certainly a more than competent Mozartean; is it possible-- even probable there were 'off' nights & on? Of course. But look at the orchestral situation in New York-- who has been pleasing, and who has pleased the musicians, besides Levine? AND you saw what Sandow-- out of nowhere then, the world's great "moralist" (sic)-- tried to do to him. Hint: maybe its "major" institution New York musicians who are as much the problem as the conductors, though, to be sure, I've been less than pleased a # of choices etc.

LK-- Sandow is a fucking crank just more than little embittered that, uh... nobody is playing his compositions. And yeah, good to great composers have also been interesting, sometimes weird, critics also but Virgil Thomson he ain't, let alone Berlioz. I won't dignify Sandow's schtick but running down list of conductors he's ambushed on slim, often fatuous, evidence but Schwarz ain't the only one. Also, no comment, from Sandow's website-- but maybe he'll help Anthony Braxton with his interplanetary aspirations etc?

Yeah, who knows but the question is, how much could he ultimately do with a band like Seattle? I did, years ago, hear him do Mozart etc in New York and he was very good but of course anyone damn well should be. Aside from some quasi-'juicy' content in the NYT piece, I think some motivation stemmed from grief on that side also. But you know what a snakepit etc... Also, this Hindemith recording is excellent-- http://www.amazon.com/Hindemith-Nobilissima-Visione-Pieces-Orchestra/dp/B00KQ31IZ2

Not so much: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/16/arts/music/16waki.html?_r=0 Times was mostly a hit piece, LK. Schwarz could be a hardass, possibly imperious on occasion, but isn't that his job? Case dismissed btw-- http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/symphony-violinists-lawsuit-dismissed/ http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Case-against-Seattle-Symphony-dismissed-1262642.php Without having examined the medical records etc, if above is the case... is violinist in full time symphony orchestra really the appropriate occupation? And maybe-- just maybe-- any musician who left Seattle would, because of GS, have a # of better-than-previous professional opportunities? Meanwhile, pretty much any GS conducted album is at least worth hearing & if one can snag his American orchestral series' recordings cheap (or find at library), they're estimable if, in my case, I usually prefer more modernist fare. also--

While I share your fascination with this story, I see the biz side the other way: Ornette is NOT a commodity, both for health & asspain reasons. To be blunt, who gives a fuck what Denardo thinks? However faithfully (let's presume) he's carried forth Dad's perogatives, it's done little good for anyone else (but Art)), all the Harmolodic Verve stuff is out of print (new recordings + reissues) despite their presumed ownership etc etc. If Antibalas can make me, as booking agent, festival and/or club owner $$$, let GuardianDenardo & his lawyers have a ball-- even with Ornette in best fettle, by his own choice he was setting himself apart etc & not really a player in the contemporary live music scene. Here's A's current date calendars by comparison-- http://www.antibalas.com/shows/ you think even 1% of their likely audience heard of or would care about this dispute if we could even explain it to them? What power is O's name? How many gigs has he played in the last 10 years? 15? 20? Yeah, sure there are "loyalists" but what's "loyalty"-- and what should it be, really?-- to such a quixotic cause worth when we got tickets to sell? Ornette & Denardo in their loft/castle is admirable as shit, OK, but it's their life & sure is shit isn't a living for the rest of us. And, obviously, assuming Antibalas not suicidal, O's discography is now littered with "questionable" or "questioned" releases.... well-- as I think you & others suggested earlier-- what's the common factor there? You probably have a saner grip on this, but one thing I've learned is to never underestimate the power of Anonymous Art Money when it gets pissed off. You look at all the Art Money (Anonymous & Otherwise) that has been invested in Ornette over the years, hey, Noble Cause Alert, write a check. "Commodity", no. Icon, yes, and deservedly so. But people invest in Icons just as surely as they invest in Commodities. And also, this is true, booking agents/etc. don't give a damn who' s in the band, they just want the name on the bill and on the stage. Antibalas can get a fucking trumpet player, ya' know? And there we go back to the question- if System Dialing Peoples NOT suicidal, whose Anonymous Art Money did THEY get promised if/when shit hit fan? So many angles to this, and none of them particularly savory, no matter how you come at them. There are definitely layers & layers of questions and clearly something was kinda-- if not 'shady'-- then purposefully 'shadowy' about this release. But just on functional level of, yes, people trying to compete, if Antibalas can handle their business, are pleasant to deal with etc... I just don't see anyone but Ornette's very very best personal friends taking sides and I'd suggest the same even if was 10 years & the prospect of 'future' Ornette more realistic. (Ten years ago CDs had greater value, natch; now, with almost everything available somewhere... Except for the obviously higher manufacturing costs, I'm surprised the label didn't do this on vinyl... And actually, in some ways that's weirdest thing about this is the sequal/"homage" to O re: "New Vocabulary" though maybe they see it in line with the provocative Contemporary & Atlantic titles?) Also, I'm not generally an NPR fan-- brought to you by swill beer whose sponsorship I won't repeat here-- but I didn't see their original Kevin Whitehead review posted so... http://www.npr.org/2015/02/20/387772281/ornette-coleman-returns-with-his-unmistakable-sound

While I share your fascination with this story, I see the biz side the other way: Ornette is NOT a commodity, both for health & asspain reasons. To be blunt, who gives a fuck what Denardo thinks? However faithfully (let's presume) he's carried forth Dad's perogatives, it's done little good for anyone else (but Art)), all the Harmolodic Verve stuff is out of print (new recordings + reissues) despite their presumed ownership etc etc. If Antibalas can make me, as booking agent, festival and/or club owner $$$, let GuardianDenardo & his lawyers have a ball-- even with Ornette in best fettle, by his own choice he was setting himself apart etc & not really a player in the contemporary live music scene. Here's A's current date calendars by comparison-- http://www.antibalas.com/shows/ you think even 1% of their likely audience heard of or would care about this dispute if we could even explain it to them? What power is O's name? How many gigs has he played in the last 10 years? 15? 20? Yeah, sure there are "loyalists" but what's "loyalty"-- and what should it be, really?-- to such a quixotic cause worth when we got tickets to sell? Ornette & Denardo in their loft/castle is admirable as shit, OK, but it's their life & sure is shit isn't a living for the rest of us. And, obviously, assuming Antibalas not suicidal, O's discography is now littered with "questionable" or "questioned" releases.... well-- as I think you & others suggested earlier-- what's the common factor there?

Late, if you like Toradze's Scriabin-- which I do-- check out his Prokofiev PCs, also with Gergiev. I'm great admirer of Ahmed Adnan Saygun, roughly 'the Turkish Bartok'-- Here's some ace later Casella --

LK, please consider: Schaap didn't need to "lead" anyone-- he didn't invent the line of inquiry, one or more Ellingtonians told him their version(s). What other possibility is there that Schaap would question the 'accepted' Avakian version? Now I would like to know who first told Schaap this; how (relatively) drunk & sober the various participants, witnesses were, etc. We know Duke's band, like nearly all others, often drank a lot. I know nothing about Avakian's habits. Nonetheless, those who drank with Duke were very experienced drinkers and why, if Avakian a benign, even benevolent figure in their professional lives, would they speak otherwise? Might Schaap have a 'secret' revisionist agenda? Anything is possible, sure, but that seems unlikely. And however much a nudge he might occasionally be, Schaap is a GREAT interviewer because he's both thoroughly prepared & unabashedly loving to his subjects-- not generalized "I Heart Jazz" but that you did this specifically & its wondrous, how did that happen? Here's another thought: besides the Newport question, I see that Avakian was Charles Lloyd's manager for a spell. Schaap is long-time good friends with Lloyd, continuing to this day. I have no beef with George generally but I've never viewed him as any kind of "saint." Who besides Johnny Mathis, maybe, am I to credit him for? And just because he was "classier"-- slicker anyway-- than, say, Syd Nathan?

More Villa-Lobos, starting with Choros 11... Uuno Klami ballets & symphonies ... Milhaud symphonies ... lots of Delius, choral music included... Dutilleux... Messiaen obviously... Casella ... Szymanowski... Tubin... lesser known Profkofiev inc. cantatas... tons of Martinu... MacMillan ... Sally Beamish ... how well do you know-- and I mean really know-- your Ives? Ives lives! There are Spanish composers, Portuguese composers, Greek composers-- Skalkottas !!! (some serial, lots not)... Leevi Madetoja ... How well do you know-- and I mean really, really know-- your Nielsen ? Take a whiff of Roy Harris sometime, not just Symphony #3. ******* LOU HARRISON !!!!!!! *********