thedwork

could you describe it for us? ...there are several comics you might want to watch who, IMHO, exemplify that style of humor. It is a style or manner of delivery of the lines which are unique to Jewish humor. A short list: Glenn Hirsch Jerry Seinfeld John Stewart Mel Brooks [more of a writer than comedian] Marty Feldman Gilda Radner Woody Allen Louis Nye Carl Reiner Mort Sahl George Burns Some were more edgy like: Andy Kaufman Lenny Bruce Lewis Black To down right silly: Milton Berle Jack Benny Sid Ceasar Bottom line: There is a definable delivery style of the lines and of the types of humor that sets it apart from strictly ethnic humor or country humor as two examples. A Wiki source, but gives a fairly good definition of the style, I think: Jewish-American Comedy Here are a few more comedians I think typify the genre: Rodney Dangerfield Madeline Khan Shelley Berman Then, of course, there's the Marx Brothers and the Three Stooges. Classic stuff, IMHO. Three Stooges Andy Kaufman Lenny Bruce Lewis Black Marty Feldman Gilda Radner Woody Allen Jerry Seinfeld John Stewart Mel Brooks etc... i personally don't see that as a list that shows any type of singular style of comedy. as matter of fact, i see that as showing just the opposite: there is so much stylistic variation in that list as to show that there is not a "typical" Jewish style of humor. sure they may all be Jewish but... it's like saying there's a typical Black style of playing jazz saxophone and then listing Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Anthony Braxton, Kenny Garrett, Dewey Redman, and Joe McPhee to prove the point. interestingly, the wiki link you provided that you say "gives a fairly good definition of the style," says virtually nothing about style. here's the entirety of what it says on the subject: Jewish comedy has often featured ridicule and insult jokes, including insulting other minority groups... Characteristics of comedians include wit, verbal skills, self-mockery, and a "critical edge" from my experience, all of the things listed there - insult jokes, wit, verbal skills, self-mockery, "critical edge" - are simply elements of most good comedy performers/writers arsenal no matter what their background. ok, maybe not insult jokes... but seriously, who in their right mind thinks that "wit" and "verbal skills" are found mainly in Jewish comedy and not all good comedy?! it's absurd. the little wiki article also says this: "Some common themes among American Jewish comedians include their heritage as Jews, experience of living between two worlds (ethnic and mainstream), anxiety of living as a minority in America and the foibles of American culture." this is definitely true, but that stuff is content, not style. anyone can feel free to see that as a semantic point. but you'd be wrong. content is definitely not style. it may contribute to it, but it's not it. not by the longest shot. i think there are things that many Jewish comedians (but by not by any means all...) generally share in terms of content but not necessarily style. and even some of those content things are not as specific to Jewish comedy as one may initially think. take, say, the wiki example of "Anxiety of living as a minority in America." ok. Jewish comedians certainly joke/write about that. but so do Black comedians. and i assume so do Hispanic comedians. and i can think of a bit off the top of my head that Bill Burr does about being the White minority in Harlem. it's not only a Jewish thing. or the 1st thing the wiki article lists as a Jewish theme: "[Their] heritage." ALL comedians use their heritage for material. and since certain styles and contents aren't only Jewish, it doesn't seem right to me to call them "Jewish Comedy." all that being said, i'd assume that there are some things in some Jewish stand-up and comedy writing that are somewhat unique (but not exclusive) to Jewish performers/writers. maybe a certain intellectual underpinning? but i dunno 'bout that. i wouldn't necessarily hold Adam Sandler and Judd Apatow up as intellectual humorists. and i'd also certainly say there are plenty of non-Jewish comedians who are quite "intellectual" - Bob Newhart comes to mind. maybe incorporating content on psychotherapy is pretty Jewy (though of course i just mentioned Newhart...). but yeah, that's it. joking about seeing your shrink. totally Jewy... From that same Wiki source: Themes [1] and styles [2] [1] Some common themes among American Jewish comedians include their heritage as Jews, experience of living between two worlds (ethnic and mainstream), anxiety of living as a minority in America and the foibles of American culture. Jewish comedy has often featured ridicule and insult jokes, including insulting other minority groups. [2] Characteristics of comedians include wit, verbal skills, self-mockery, and a "critical edge". Theme leads to content. Style, however, includes the non-verbal and/or visual aspect to the spoken word. The inflection of the voice, the wry smile, the engagement of the audience, the panache or je ne sais quoi during the delivery of the jokes/punchlines which set this humor apart from other styles. How, one might posit, does anyone verbalize a "critical edge"? I added the delivery aspect to the timing and manner in which the jokes are spoken. There is a certain "laugh-at-yourself" style unique to Jewish-American Comedy. Glenn Hirsch has it down pat, IMHO. It's there, you just have to watch and listen. Surely you aren't suggesting all humor/comedians are the same now, are you? Could you see a difference in style between say Larry the Cable Guy or Richard Pryor? If not, then maybe others here can do a better job of explaining than I can. well... if it wasn't crystal clear before, it is now. last straw and certainly not worth any more energy/time. peace out goodspeak...

could you describe it for us? ...there are several comics you might want to watch who, IMHO, exemplify that style of humor. It is a style or manner of delivery of the lines which are unique to Jewish humor. A short list: Glenn Hirsch Jerry Seinfeld John Stewart Mel Brooks [more of a writer than comedian] Marty Feldman Gilda Radner Woody Allen Louis Nye Carl Reiner Mort Sahl George Burns Some were more edgy like: Andy Kaufman Lenny Bruce Lewis Black To down right silly: Milton Berle Jack Benny Sid Ceasar Bottom line: There is a definable delivery style of the lines and of the types of humor that sets it apart from strictly ethnic humor or country humor as two examples. A Wiki source, but gives a fairly good definition of the style, I think: Jewish-American Comedy Here are a few more comedians I think typify the genre: Rodney Dangerfield Madeline Khan Shelley Berman Then, of course, there's the Marx Brothers and the Three Stooges. Classic stuff, IMHO. Three Stooges Andy Kaufman Lenny Bruce Lewis Black Marty Feldman Gilda Radner Woody Allen Jerry Seinfeld John Stewart Mel Brooks etc... i personally don't see that as a list that shows any type of singular style of comedy. as matter of fact, i see that as showing just the opposite: there is so much stylistic variation in that list as to show that there is not a "typical" Jewish style of humor. sure they may all be Jewish but... it's like saying there's a typical Black style of playing jazz saxophone and then listing Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Anthony Braxton, Kenny Garrett, Dewey Redman, and Joe McPhee to prove the point. interestingly, the wiki link you provided that you say "gives a fairly good definition of the style," says virtually nothing about style. here's the entirety of what it says on the subject: Jewish comedy has often featured ridicule and insult jokes, including insulting other minority groups... Characteristics of comedians include wit, verbal skills, self-mockery, and a "critical edge" from my experience, all of the things listed there - insult jokes, wit, verbal skills, self-mockery, "critical edge" - are simply elements of most good comedy performers/writers arsenal no matter what their background. ok, maybe not insult jokes... but seriously, who in their right mind thinks that "wit" and "verbal skills" are found mainly in Jewish comedy and not all good comedy?! it's absurd. the little wiki article also says this: "Some common themes among American Jewish comedians include their heritage as Jews, experience of living between two worlds (ethnic and mainstream), anxiety of living as a minority in America and the foibles of American culture." this is definitely true, but that stuff is content, not style. anyone can feel free to see that as a semantic point. but you'd be wrong. content is definitely not style. it may contribute to it, but it's not it. not by the longest shot. i think there are things that many Jewish comedians (but by not by any means all...) generally share in terms of content but not necessarily style. and even some of those content things are not as specific to Jewish comedy as one may initially think. take, say, the wiki example of "Anxiety of living as a minority in America." ok. Jewish comedians certainly joke/write about that. but so do Black comedians. and i assume so do Hispanic comedians. and i can think of a bit off the top of my head that Bill Burr does about being the White minority in Harlem. it's not only a Jewish thing. or the 1st thing the wiki article lists as a Jewish theme: "[Their] heritage." ALL comedians use their heritage for material. and since certain styles and contents aren't only Jewish, it doesn't seem right to me to call them "Jewish Comedy." all that being said, i'd assume that there are some things in some Jewish stand-up and comedy writing that are somewhat unique (but not exclusive) to Jewish performers/writers. maybe a certain intellectual underpinning? but i dunno 'bout that. i wouldn't necessarily hold Adam Sandler and Judd Apatow up as intellectual humorists. and i'd also certainly say there are plenty of non-Jewish comedians who are quite "intellectual" - Bob Newhart comes to mind. maybe incorporating content on psychotherapy is pretty Jewy (though of course i just mentioned Newhart...). but yeah, that's it. joking about seeing your shrink. totally Jewy...

could you describe it for us?

in which post?

is there a Jewish comedy "style?" i don't know. i tend to think yeah, somewhat. but i also tend to feel that much of it may just be Jewish people being creatively funny and people point to that and say, "Jewish Comedy" when it's more like comedy that happens to be made by a Jewish person. same as many cultural traits that are claimed by certain groups but which are actually relatively universal: like the importance of family (italians like to claim that one...), tradition, self-reliance, guilt, etc etc... "Jewish guilt." as if other groups don't have guilt. catholic guilt, etc... anyway, here's some comedy that has specific references to Jewishness (or at least Jewish stereotypes...) and issues relating to Jewish identity/culture. i strung together the bits that were pertinent to this thread from her Jesus Is Magic show. self-deprecating? sometimes. Jewy? for sure. imo, she's a hero and fucking hilarious: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh8IJX6-6Aw

is there anything about the humor in this clip that is particularly "Jewish" in content/style? aside from the fact that Mel Brooks is Jewish? by the way - she is of course insanely hot...

well this is interesting: the 2nd scene i wanted to post here is "blocked worldwide" on youtube. its being blocked in and of itself is not surprising. it's an HBO program after all and they own it and etc etc etc... but the previous scene i uploaded above is from the same episode and was not detected. both were uploaded as "unlisted" videos. here are the two reasons supplied by youtube for the blocked status: "Olivia Munn Shares Her Paparazzi Face-Olivia Munn Shares Her Paparazzi Face", audiovisual content administered by: Associated Press (AP) "Late Night With Jimmy Fallon", audiovisual content administered by: NBC Universal there's audio auto-detection software on youtube that blocks music content from being uploaded (sometimes only in certain parts of the globe), but there's no music content in this scene that would cause that to click in. no idea what the Jimmy Fallon connection would be, but "Olivia Munn Shares Her Paparazzi Face", audiovisual content administered by: Associated Press (AP)" is interesting. maybe Munn's face is video auto-detected right now 'cuz she's doing so well? the scene i tried to upload was all about her character and she's terrific in the scene. so is Sam Waterston. oh well. hope i don't get penalized too harshly... * Edit! weird goings on. i deleted the "worldwide blocked" vid (double meltdown). then 3-4 hours later, after it was deleted, i got this email from youtube: Dear thedwork65, Your video "Double Meltdown", may have content that is owned or licensed by Associated Press (AP), but it’s still available on YouTube! In some cases, ads may appear next to it. This claim is not penalizing your account status. Visit your Copyright Notice page for more details on the policy applied to your video. Sincerely, - The YouTube Team well, if anyone is interested here's the scene. it's kinda long and i had to edit it together 'cuz there were other subplots interspersed that i figured folks here didn't need to see if they only wanted to check out one good scene. anyway, enjoy if you feel so inclined (it might be gone soon...): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Fi_U672EoA p.s. - anyone else w/ youtube experience that has advice for this kind of thing please chime in...

still feel the same about Sorkin's The Newsroom now as when it started 'bout a month or two back: not his best but still worth watching. it's worth it because within each hour-long episode there's at least one or two scenes which are better than most everything else on television at that moment. last week's episode was no exception. there were two scenes (both somewhat longish...) which i thought were exceptional. here's one below. don't give up in the first couple minutes - it builds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCV4RdqnzKQ will post the next scene as soon as it finishes uploading...

Yeah you did, Pete. We have already gone around on this notion that a person can claim to be atheist but not claim he is Jewish. wow goodspeak. is goodspeak short for gobbledygook? i'll let David Rabe speak for me here: If your manner of [writing in this thread] is in any way a reflection of what goes on inside your head, you are lucky you can tie your shoes. maybe you make sense in person? fun w/ words and phrases! clever clever. how's that working out for you?

likely the thread's title and how it started out. but it's still a good question Shawn. but then how long 'til it gets locked...

I absolutely agree with you. Why more Christians don't get on board with that concept is beyond me. You simply cannot shove religion down somebody's throat...it has to be a personal choice. Well put. An atheist simply cannot be a Jewish believer. i don't know what you wanted us to understand when you replied to Pete C. "An atheist simply cannot be a Jewish believer." did you think he wasn't aware that the term 'atheist' means a person who thinks there's no God? 'cuz i assume he does know that. and i also assume that you know he knows that. what are you saying exactly? do you know? i'd like to know... not interested, eh? not surprised... Pete knew what I meant and that is enough for me. that's cool. you two obviously have some kind of forum history w/ each other. rock on... just so you know, when i read this exchange below...: An atheist simply cannot be a Jewish believer. ...it reads to me as you stating that one cannot be Jewish without believing in God. i actually can't see reading it any other way. i assume you know there are a lot of people who would disagree w/ you on that. or maybe you and Pete have some running gag that gives a completely different meaning to that exchange that nobody from outside the joke could decipher? whatever the case may be, just wanted to let you know what it looks like to this reader...

horrifying. just when you think you know how fucked up things can be, this report lands at your feet. i couldn't read much past the 4rd or 5th paragraph. monstrous.

An atheist simply cannot be a Jewish believer. i don't know what you wanted us to understand when you replied to Pete C. "An atheist simply cannot be a Jewish believer." did you think he wasn't aware that the term 'atheist' means a person who thinks there's no God? 'cuz i assume he does know that. and i also assume that you know he knows that. what are you saying exactly? do you know? i'd like to know... not interested, eh? not surprised...

sad to lose such a deep thinker/artist. La Jetee is of course a masterpiece and very a soulful intricate film. but i'm still dealing w/ A Grin Without A Cat. that thing is mind-blowing and in some ways, more "important." RIP Chris Marker...

An atheist simply cannot be a Jewish believer. i don't know what you wanted us to understand when you replied to Pete C. "An atheist simply cannot be a Jewish believer." did you think he wasn't aware that the term 'atheist' means a person who thinks there's no God? 'cuz i assume he does know that. and i also assume that you know he knows that. what are you saying exactly? do you know? i'd like to know...