oneofanotherkind

So now the forum moderators in their infinite wisdom are deleting various posts ( mine included ) in the interests of ... what exactly ? Playing nice ? Respect for the deceased who can't defend themselves ? Protecting innocent ears ? Protecting the reputation and image of Oganissimo , the band ? Well guess what ladies & gents ( and apologies in advance since almost none of you know me in real life ) ... THIS IS WRONG. The last time I was censored was on a technical analysis forum -- yeah, that fuzzy science used to analyze stocks and bonds 'n' shit. Why was I censored ( and banned ) ? Well , see I posted a defense of Obama against a bunch of right-wingers who were attacking him as the worst thing ever for free markets and free economies. See, the **owner** of those forums is a well-known markets analyst down in San Diego who happens to be a rather outspoken right-winger ( " if you come to take my gun away, I'll shoot you " , " don't give *my* money to those lazy inner-city black folk" -- that type of fellow ). CENSORSHIP IS WRONG. CENSORSHIP IS THE PRACTICE AND TOOL OF THE RIGHT-WING OPPRESSORS. Sorry Bev Getz , your interests and emotions pale in comparison to the principles of free speech that now loom large for this forum

I don't mean to hijack this thread ( which after all is in the "Recommendations" section ) ... but didn't we lose something by deleting the other thread ? ... something more important than determining which SG stories were true , false , or somewhere inbetween ? In my opinion, the ( surprise ) hidden value of that thread was that it was catalyzing people ( well, at least me ) to do some serious thinking about the attraction of transendental art vis-a-vis the human failings of the artist ... It may be hip, but is it virtuous to dig the art while reviling the artist ? What is the true connection between artist and audience , and is it possible for the audience to influence the artist ? My own thoughts are that true artists are skilled at conveying the fantastically impossible *conception* of a *potential* beautiful/meaningful/thrilling reality we all maintain inside, which exploded within us when we were young ( and dumb ) , and which we courageously maintain despite age's proferring up of an ever-growing evidence of its impossibility ... But skill in conveying inner conceptions to an audience via an art unfortunately has little to do with creating a commensurate reality in the real world of relationships , economics , and the omnipresent greyness which surrounds. In fact , for some it might even serve as an ultimately debilitating distraction. Nevertheless , we must study those who found the courage to endeavor to poignantly convey a strikingly better reality and in doing so potentially change others' boundaries of the realm of the possible. I know that in my study of 3 of jazz' most tragic figures ( Woody , Jaco , Lee ) I have ultimately found that understanding the real man behind the public persona made the music more meaningful and a better teacher to me ... not a worse one.

Just a guess , but perhaps Bev Getz threatened a libel suit ? I'm not an attorney, so I'm not sure exactly how that would work since SG is deceased ... does the law ever consider relatives to be indirectly slandered ? The problem I had with that thread was that in the original discussion people weren't saying "Let's learn something important about life from the following SG anecdote ..." , instead they were saying "Here's some juicy SG gossip ..." , which is fine I guess since Getz was a public figure and is no longer around in any event ... but then later when BG showed up , the same people are getting righteously defensive and acting like they meant their stories as high-minded education. Hmmmm ....

I saw Jaco a couple of times in the 70s at The Greek Theatre in Berkeley. WR, and also w/ Joni Mitchell ( can't remember if Mike Brecker was there ). Jaco was electrifying -- there is no question who the vast majority of the crowd came to see. I didn't see Jaco live in a nightclub, but I'm not sure I agree that Jaco was better in the studio -- after all, 4 of his best recordings are live ( Trilogue Live , Birthday Concert , Twins , 8:30 ). From what I've read , few jazz musicians ever enjoyed the luxuries of production Jaco did on Word Of Mouth -- so figure that into the mix. I've read Mikowski's book twice and I think it's brilliant. I can understand why anyone who was friends with Jaco would perhaps would be dissappointed & angry because Bill just lays it all out -- all of his extensive experiences and knowledge about Jaco -- and the 2nd half is a painful read. But don't forget that Bill was a close friend of Jaco , just like Metheny , and much closer to him than Jaco's family. I don't think Bill did it for the money or the fame. I think it was both joyous & painful for him to write the book -- a true labour of love. Check it out for yourself and perhaps you'll agree with me. In the 1st half of the book, Jaco's life is like a supernova. I grew up in the 70s , and I can see how Jaco was The Sun -- a kid from truly modest beginnings who fabricated his own dreams and propelled himself into the stratosphere on positive thinking alone. In my opinion, someone like Jaco comes along in this world maybe once a century. Miles wasn't a virtual rockstar in his 20s ... and what other jazz musican ever pulled that ? The most interesting thing I read in the book is the recollection of a name musician who knew Jaco well that Jaco never equaled his form in '73-'74 in Florida when he was teaching at University of Miami, before he got famous. My favorite Jaco is the playing on Trilogue Live in '76 which I find truly transcendental. My favorite Jaco composition is Liberty City.

Someone already mentioned this , but Khalid 9:45 to the end is freakin' mind-boggling ... does anyone know if there's a live version ? I actually don't own very much Larry Young. Just Unity & Lawrence of Newark. Trying to expand my collection ... but it ain't easy. Could Larry currently be the most unfarily out-of-print jazz artist ? btw , if any Peter Apfelbaum fans out there, but sounds to me like Peter's sound , compositions , and orchestrations were influenced by Larry ... but that's just a guess on my part.

Teo was being crotchety ? Really ? You mean like Ernest Grainger ?

Excerpt from this 1998 interview with Zawinul : "When I found out about the Holocaust, I was like unconscious for about a year. The media had been contolled by the Nazis and nobody came back from the camps to talk about them. How could my people do this? I learned that there were beasts everywhere. How could those monsters come from the same place as Beethoven? I had all the weight of my past on my shoulders like a camel."

I haven't listened to Joe's Mathausen , but I've read about it. I believe that the initial ( and only ) live performance in 1998 was presented at the camp itself, with Joe the only live musician ( it being a multimedia thing with much spoken word ). It forcibly ( and painfully ) strains the limits of my imagination that Joe could sit for hours inside the very grounds where 120,000 horribly lost their lives , personally recreating the insane depravity that went on 50-60 years before in an intense multimedia barrage , while at the same time privately sympathizing with Hitler and the Nazis and believing that what happenned there was somehow justified. I believe that even an openly Nazi musician ( if there is such a thing these days ) would experience severe psychological troubles attempting to create, stage, and deliver such an event.

???? Are you for real ? Sorry ... not believing you ... not capable of believing what I'm reading , more precisely.

Hi Jeff , and thanks for the awesome response. Please, more on Stockhausen taking back his recordings from DG. How was he able to pull this off ? I just now have "Eotvos Conducts Stockhausen : Gruppen , Punkte" BMC 2006 , which is Westdeutscher Rudfunk, Koln (WDR) conducted by Peter Eotvos ( and also Arturo Tamayo & Jacques Mercier for the other two orchestras on Gruppen ). I wonder if this WDR orchestra is somehow associated with the WDR Big Band , or just a coincidence ? Yes , my interest in Stockhausen derives from his influence on Shaw, Braxton, and other members of the avante garde.

I am trying to get into Stockhausen ... wondering where to start ... any ideas anyone ?

I don't listen to Roney much , but that's not really due so much to his playing as it is to the fact that of all the major threads that emerged from the supernova of experimentation of the late 60s / early 70s , Miles' pathway is my least favorite. That being said , I think the jazz world needs a good Miles' derivative way more than it needs a lot of other things , and I think Roney does a fine job moving along that path. There aren't too many true innovators these days ( in part because jazz is at an advanced age and it isn't too easy these days to sound fresh and new ) , so perhaps we should acknowledge those who found a personal voice within one of the acknowledged major pathways.

I like it !

Bey with Silver in 1972, part 1 Bey with Silver in 1972, part 2

Anyone know the real scoop on Billy's ambitious dual-kits project with Louie Bellson in 1978 , "Matterhorn" ? Cobham's name doesn't appear in the credits -- in fact in the liner notes he is only referred to as "the other drummer". An entire suite of music written specifically for two drum kits and jazz orchestra and it's Louie and "the other drummer" ... ya gotta chuckle at that. Additionally, in the few clips I've seen of the video they made of the recording, Billy doesn't look too thrilled to be there. More like "I'm a professional, just doing his job." btw , I found Matterhorn to be mildly disappointing ... but it's definitely one of a kind ! ( that I know of )