Jim R

Joe, I hear you. BTW, you're too modest. Ray, some folks may not have nailed 11 out of 16 (like one of our esteemed colleagues did), but everybody had their clever comments and interesting insights. Like I said at the top, I wish I had time to address every one of 'em. At any rate, if you're like me, you gotta be proud of those "little victories"! Bev, I'm glad to hear about your getting reacquainted with Louis. OVERDRIVE (for those who aren't familiar with it) is dynamite, IMO. A live trio date where Louis really cuts loose and displays his chops in his most comfortable setting- BEBOP. That CD is one where a Pat Martino comparison would be more accurate, I think, although in no way do those two players sound the same. They both have supreme flatpicking chops- that's the primary similarity. Louis is more versatile than Pat, and that's not to knock Pat. Louis' style includes more variety, including those amazing Wes-like chordal solos. At any rate, this Villa CD (now OOP) is more laid back overall, and for those of you who dug this version of "The Dolphin", I hope you'll return to it from time to time. I've had this for 10 years, and I like it more now than I ever have.

Interesting. Elaborate if you'd care to, Joe. Unless you're talking more about tone, I might disagree, only because Bickert tends to emphasize chordal playing (even in his solos) more than Raney. He also is more relaxed/legato than either Raney or Hall, but perhaps more like Hall in that sense. (Generalizing here, of course)

AB, thanks a lot. Fortunately, since my last post I've received an e-mail from the friends in Murrieta. They feel "surrounded", but are doing fine thus far. Apparently the closest any blaze got to their place was about 20 miles away. Scary stuff. Thanks again, best wishes to all.

In case anybody missed it... I POSTED THE ANSWERS!! (In another thread, natch).

Come on... it wasn't THAT boring, was it?

Here goes... First of all, I wish I had time to go through everyone’s posts and respond to every interesting comment in every post. There were a lot of them! Instead, maybe you guys can help me out in the following discussion phase by comparing your own initial reactions to these answers and pointing out anything you now find interesting or surprising (and of course respond to any of my comments below, in italics). 1. Vince Guaraldi - Samba de orfeu (Luiz Bonfa) - from “Cast Your Fate To The Wind (Jazz Impressions Of Black Orpheus)” (Fantasy) Vince Guaraldi (p), Monty Budwig (b ), Colin Bailey (d). Recorded 1962 When I think of the word “swinging”, this track is one of the first things that comes to mind for me. I wish Guaraldi had recorded more, and gotten more attention over the years beyond the connection with the “Peanuts” soundtracks (which I enjoyed too). 2. Lem Winchester - Why don’t they understand (Henderson / Fishman) - from “With Feeling” (Moodsville) Lem Winchester (vib), Richard Wyands (p), George Duvivier (b ), Roy Haynes (d). Recorded 1960 Quite a few people said this tune sounded familiar... and suggested it could be a standard. I wonder... I had never heard of the song until I got this CD, but a little research suggests that this was a country (!) hit back in the late 50’s, for a guy named George Hamilton IV. Not the actor with the ridiculously permanent tan, I presume. Petula “Downtown” Clark also recorded it, apparently. I like the tune, but my main purpose was just to sneak in a nice example of Lem’s playing, and this is from my favorite Winchester album. 3. Lee Morgan - Bess (Lee Morgan) - from “Here's Lee Morgan” (Vee Jay) Lee Morgan (tpt), Clifford Jordan (ts), Wynton Kelly (p), Paul Chambers (b ), Art Blakey (d). Recorded 1960 I’ve always liked this tune, and since it doesn’t get mentioned very often in Lee Morgan threads, I thought I’d take the opportunity to share it. It also features the twist of the muted trumpet; a somewhat undersung tenor man whose distinctive sound I love; and a rhythm section to die for (even if Blakey is a bit out of his normal “volcano” element on this ). 4. Louis Stewart - The dolphin (Luiz Eça) - from “String Time” (Villa) Louis Stewart (g), Knut Mikalsen (rhythm g), Terje Venaas (b ), Ole Jacob Hansen (d). Recorded 1988 I’ve written about this one on the boards a few times. This is a unique recording. First of all, you have an (albeit acclaimed in hardcore jazz guitar circles) obscure Irish bebop guitarist playing a Brazilian piece with a group of Norwegian musicians- recording IN NORWAY. Let’s face it, that might have been a recipe for disaster, instead this is one of my favorite solos in the history of jazz on the guitar. This tune is a bitch to solo on- perhaps some of you musicians who have tried playing it might agree on that. Not only does Louis fluently navigate the changes, but he does it with great style and cohesiveness, surpassing even the Getz and Bill Evans versions, IMO. 5. Benny Golson - How am I to know (Jack King / Dorothy Parker) - from “Turning Point” (Mercury) Benny Golson (ts), Wynton Kelly (p), Paul Chambers (b ), Jimmy Cobb (d). Recorded 1962 Another player who doesn’t get enough props, IMO. He gets them for his composing, but not so much for his playing. The cat had/has his own thing, his own sound, and to me it’s always been exhilarating. Relatively obscure album (on CD from Japan only) 6. Eddie Higgins - Favela (aka “O morro nao tem vez”) (Antonio Carlos Jobim) - from “Live at the Van Dyke Cafe” (Soyka - Wilner) Eddie Higgins (p), Don Wilner (b ). Recorded 1999 E.H. is one of the most versatile and talented jazz piano veterans out there. He’s another relatively low-profile guy (just like Louis Stewart), but it’s worth it to seek out his work. Hopefully, everybody will soon get a chance to read Dan Gould’s interview/blindfold test with Eddie from this past Spring (including the interesting story about Eddie declining the offer to join the group of a certain legendary jazz leader). BTW, the Van Dyke Cafe is in Miami, so maybe there was some sort of Florida Kharma going on with those Nat Adderley quotes... 7. Bill Mays / Ed Bickert - Sometime ago (Sergio Mihanovich) - from “Bill Mays / Ed Bickert” (Concord) Ed Bickert (g), Bill Mays (p). Recorded 1994 Ed Bickert... another low profile, under-appreciated master, in this case, from Canada. I really love this tune, and really love this performance of it, and was kind of curious to see how many people knew the song. Bickert’s intro on this just kills me. His style and sound are akin to Jim Hall as some suggested, but his tone is generally brighter (he uses a Fender Telecaster- a solidbody guitar, BTW), and his playing is less often dissonant, less “progressive” than Hall’s, and generally a little more lyrical, I think. For those who dig the Desmond/Hall Mosaic set, and who enjoyed this, you will want to look for Bickert’s 1970’s work with Desmond on various labels (A&M/Verve; CTI; Telarc). Personally, I like these even better than Desmond’s collaberations with Hall. 8. Harry Allen - Chega de saudade (aka “No more blues”) (Antonio Carlos Jobim / Vinicius de Moraes) - from “Eu Nao Quero Dançar (I Won't Dance)” (RCA Victor) Harry Allen (ts), Larry Goldings (p), Dori Caymmi (ac g), Joe Cohn (el g), Dennis Irwin (b ), Duduka Da Fonseca (perc), Maucha Adnet (voc). Recorded 1997 The classic Bossa Nova anthem that Joao Gilberto made famous in Brazil. Not my favorite version, but I wanted to add some mystery as well as a jazz element. This recording is relatively new to me, as is Harry Allen. This may not even be the best cut on the CD, which is not just any “jazzman goes Brazilian” CD. Allen really knows this music, and the supporting cast here (a member of Brazil’s legendary Caymmi family; a great Brazilian percussionist; and a vocalist who was in Jobim’s “Banda Nova”) is the real deal. Larry Goldings on piano (he did a Brazilian CD on organ- “Caminhos Cruzados”, which is excellent). Guitarist Joe Cohn is the son of tenor great Al Cohn, BTW. 9. Frank Strozier - Just think it over (Frank Strozier) - from “Long Night” (Jazzland / Milestone) Frank Strozier (as), George Coleman (ts), Pat Patrick (bs), Chris Anderson (p), Bill Lee (b ), Walter Perkins (d). Recorded 1961 I’ve recently become more and more of a Strozier fan, and this track seemed to fit in nicely with some of my other jazz choices. Nice piece of writing from Strozier, I thought. 10. Barney Kessel - Aquarela do Brasil (aka “Brazil”) (Ary Barroso) - from “Solo” (Concord) Barney Kessel (g). Recorded 1981 Another classic 20th century Brazilian composition (by one of their seminal composers). Kessel was a true giant on his instrument. For some reason, his name just doesn’t come up that often in our jazz guitar discussion threads (even when it focuses on “legends” of the instrument). Even Wes was highly influenced by Kessel, who was a primary bridge early on between Charlie Christian and the modern jazz that followed. This track is a good- if brief- example of his versatility, flair, chordal mastery, and pure musicality. A fine example of a guitarist who didn’t think in terms of guitaristics, but making good music. 11. Hampton Hawes - Hamp’s blues (“Black Forest”? *) (Hampton Hawes) - from “Hamp’s Piano” (Saba/MPS) Hampton Hawes (p), Eberhard Weber (b ). [Klaus Weiss (d) lays out on this track]. Recorded 1967 * This tune is labeled as “Hamp’s Blues” on Saba album (NOT the same as the “Hamp’s Blues” he recorded for Contemporary). I also have another version of the tune (on a european jazz guitar album) where it’s labeled as “Hamp’s Blues”; This same tune is labeled as “Black Forest” on Hawes’ Black Lion release BLUES FOR BUD (recorded 4 months after the Saba version). The Saba album includes a track titled “Black Forest Blues”, but that’s yet another composition. So... ??? (discographers’ nightmare ). Another relatively obscure album, only available on CD via Japan. Hawes could play pretty with the best of them, while always retaining that deep, earthy soulfulness and commitment to the blues. This track gives us a little of both, which I find very appealing. 12. Lalo Schifrin - Samba para dos (Lalo Schifrin) - from “Bossa Nova Groove” (Ubatuqui CD); Originally released under Eddie Harris’ name as “Bossa Nova” (Vee Jay 3034) Lalo Schifrin (p), Eddie Harris (ts), Jimmy Raney (g), Art Davis (b ), Chuck Lampkin (d), Osvaldo Cigno (pandeiro), Jack Del Rio (cabaca). Recorded 1962 Okay, this was kind of off the wall, I’ll admit. This is somewhat of a curiosity, an Argentinian pianist and a group of (primarily) U.S. jazzmen in a Brazilian romp... and I couldn’t resist the idea of giving folks a sample of Eddie Harris in this sort of setting to see if he was recognizable. He’s even more recognizable (IMO) on some of the other cuts on this CD, but I see I couldn’t fool some of you! 13. Joshua Breakstone - I mean you (Thelonious Monk) - from “Let’s Call This Monk” (Double Time) Joshua Breakstone (g), Dennis Irwin (b ), Mickey Roker (d). Recorded 1996 I’ve been a fan of Breakstone since about 1984, and he has always struck me as a unique voice in mainstream guitar (the dark tone along with a distinctive bebop single-string style become unmistakable with repeated listening and exploring of his catalog). If you look at who he’s gotten as sidemen on his LP’s/CD’s (Barry Harris, Kenny Barron, Pepper Adams, Jimmy Knepper, Jack McDuff, Al Harewood, etc), you know the cat is doing something right. Josh has done tributes to Monk, Bud Powell, Wes, Grant Green, The Beatles and The Ventures! I hear he’s very big in Japan... 14. Sarah Vaughan - Chovendo na roseira (aka “Double rainbow”) (Antonio Carlos Jobim) - from “Copacabana” (Pablo) Sarah Vaughan (voc), Helio Delmiro (g) (others unidentified). Recorded 1979 I knew this was a risk, with the widespread distaste for jazz vocalists on the board. Sarah’s voice was getting WAY down there in her later years, and no, this isn’t the best example of her jazz singing (or of this great Jobim composition), but I love this recording anyway. Helio Delmiro is fun on this, at least for me. Sarah recorded three Brazilian albums between ‘77 and ‘87- two on Pablo and one on CBS. Uniformly excellent, IMO. 15. Dexter Gordon - Tivoli (Dexter Gordon) - from “The Other Side Of Round Midnight” (Blue Note) Dexter Gordon (ss), Palle Mikkelborg (tpt), Cedar Walton (p), Mads Vinding (b ), Billy Higgins (d). Recorded 1985 A dirty trick, yes, but a good test for the ears. Mr. Sangrey said it beautifully. Go back and read Jim’s post again, if you don’t recall what he said about this track. Oh- BTW, the fade-out was not my doing. That’s the way it occurs on the CD, and it’s regrettable, as I would have loved to hear more. 16. Jack Wilson - The good life (Distel / Reardon) - from “The Two Sides Of Jack Wilson (Atlantic) Jack Wilson (p), Leroy Vinnegar (b ), Philly Joe Jones (d). Recorded 1964 After Dan had used an “uncharacteristic” Jack Wilson track on his test, I thought I’d squeeze (literally ) another Wilson track onto my disc. One of my favorite ballads, and an interesting performance by one of my favorite pianists. This was a great way to share some of my favorite music, and I hope that some of you discovered something new to enjoy. Thanks to everyone who participated, whether or not you felt “successful” at solving the mysteries. I really respect everyone’s efforts and contributions. Special thanks to Tom Storer, Ray “RDK” Kolasa, and everyone else who burned and forwarded discs (you know who you are). Last but NOT least, thanks to Dan Gould for the shoulder-tap for test #3 leadership, and for his continuing logistical support and behind-the-scenes problem solving.

I just want to echo what Maren just said, but I'm also wondering if somebody can help me out a bit. I did some searching on Google last night, trying to get some specific detail as to exactly where the fires are and what communities are affected or in danger. I have some friends in Murrieta (between L.A. and San Diego), and they haven't yet responded to an e-mail I sent yesterday. So, does anybody have a link to a good map? I found one, but it was kind of vague... Thanks

Before opening this, I expected the choices to be B.B., Albert, and Freddy. Gotta go with B.B., although at one time they were all pretty much equal for me.

Hmm... while I understand the underlying concept of what Jim was talking about, I'm not so sure we're not going overboard a tad. Whether or not he copped Getz's "concept" and "ideas"remains slightly blurry for me. As for "memories and thoughts"... I'm not sure I even follow you there. Anyway, once you're that close to Getz's TONE, and you're playing Jobim tunes, isn't it possible you're going to be accused of copping the whole "concept"? I've heard a lot of saxophonists play this genre of music, and very few really "get" the rhythmic nuances and swing like Getz did. Maybe the fact that Allen is in Getz's league when it comes to having that ability is working against him here to some degree. I'm not necessarily defending Allen entirely here, I'm just trying to be objective. The part about "it's as if he transcribed a Getz solo...", well, I'm not buying that. He DIDN'T copy any Getz recording note for note, so I think that part is unfair and over the top. I still haven't listened to the whole CD with the purpose of analyzing the whole thing to see how much of Stan I hear throughout, but I'm inclined to say that if it hasn't already jumped out at me (a complete "xerox" of Getz), I'll probably disagree with the notion. That's not to say that I don't recognize a significant similarity, but beyond the tone he was using, I'm not yet convinced about the "concept/phrasing/ideas/etc" issue.

Well, this might be a good time to pose the question... when should I start up the ANSWERS/Further discussion thread? At this point, slightly less than two thirds of disc recipients have posted here, but I'm beginning to feel like the auctioneer who isn't going to be getting any more bids... Opinions welcomed (but I think I'm inclined to do it soon)...

maren, It wasn't my intent to degrade the rapper, or in fact to comment on him at all. I only used "not our hero" to emphasize that it was a different Harry Allen from the one being discussed here ("our hero" was tongue in cheek, of course). I was only pointing out the latest in a long history of amusing gaffes I've encountered on the AMG site. Some kid's going to see that and say to his friend- "DUDE, check it out- rap was happening in the 1920's!" Marcus, Thanks again for your insights. I certainly value your perspective and knowledge.

Jim, have you read anything online (AMG bio, while you were there, for example) about Allen? My impression at this point is that he did indeed adopt the Getz sound on this CD only. Why, I don't know. I don't necessarily hear the "exactness" of sound and style that some of you do (and apparently a few others agree, such as Mike Weil, and the gentlemen who thought it sounded like Zoot), but it's pretty clear that he went into Stan's zone pretty deeply (part of me wonders how many tenor players could avoid that zone completely on a bossa session like this, though... at least from a style/phrasing standpoint... the tonality aspect is something else altogether). At any rate, I have Allen's Ellington tribute (with Bill Charlap and the Washingtons). Nice recording. Very nice, IMO. No Stan Getz impression... Just went to AMG to refresh my memory on Allen's bio. A little sidenote... I did a search for "Harry Allen", and two Harry Allens came up at the top of the results list: Harry Allen (our hero) - "Jazz" - 1980's / 1990's Harry Allen (not our hero) - "Rap" - 1920's You gotta love AMG. FWIW, here's an excerpt from Dave Nathan's bio on Allen: Fathers serious about seeing their sons one day becoming famous athletes begin developing their offspring's skills at a very young age. In the case of Harry Allen's father, who was a big band drummer, he played jazz records each day for Harry before he went off to kindergarten. Starting off with accordion lessons, there was a fortuitous switch to saxophone a few years later. Attending Rutgers University, Allen studied saxophone with Sahib Shibab, Bob Mintzer, and John Purcell. In 1989, he graduated from Rutgers with a degree in jazz tenor saxophone. While at Rutgers, Allen got his first gig with the help of master bass player Major Wholley (um, that would be Holley, Dave) where he replaced Zoot Sims at a studio recording with John Bunch, George Masso, Bucky Pizzarelli, and Ruby Braff. During the session, Dizzy Gillespie dropped by. Quite heady company for a young tenor player doing his first recording. Wholley (um, that would be Holley, Dave) also led Allen to Oliver Jackson, who Allen subsequently accompanied on several tours to Europe. A 1986 session with Kenny Barron was Allen's first recording date. After that, Allen had 19 recordings to his name for such labels as Progressive, Audiophile, and Nagel-Heyer. Later, his recordings were with major label RCA-Victor. Three of his discs have been awarded a Gold Disc by Swing Journal Magazine and his CD, Tenors Anyone, won both the Gold Disc and New Star awards. He has recorded as a sideman with Bucky Pizzarelli (with whom he performs quite frequently), Warren Vache, and Jeff Hamilton. Allen's musical inspiration and interpretive approach come from the giants and innovators of mainstream saxophone, including Coleman Hawkins, Ben Webster, Stan Getz, Illinois Jacquet, and Lester Young. BTW, Jim, I ain't going to laugh at anything you post unless it's a gag. B)

Marcus, Thank you for elaborating. I don't doubt you, but just wanted to point out what I had read in the biographical volume of the Cancioneiro, which Tom and Paulo assembled. I'm not sure why they wouldn't have made it more clear that Tom had had formal training under Villa. The suggestion in the book is that there was a (strong) influence (beginning quite early in Tom's life), but not extensive formalized instruction. The anecdote about Villa's noisy environment was mentioned, but in reference to an unplanned visit Tom made to Villa's residence. Ah well, if only I could read portuguese, I might see the details more clearly. The Cancioneiro contains only limited passages in english... Thanks again, Jim

Interesting... I know that Villa-Lobos was a great influence on Jobim, but the biographical volume included in the "Cancioneiro" set does not mention any formal training of Jobim by Villa-Lobos. The teachers that are mentioned are Hans Joachim Koellreutter (a German); composer/conductor Paulo Silva (whom Villa-Lobos admired); Tomas Gutierrez de Teran (a Spanish pianist who was invited to Brazil by Villa-Lobos); and Lucia Branco. Apparently Jobim met Villa-Lobos in 1956, but nothing is said about any formal instruction...

I can appreciate both sides on this, but I'm inclined to agree with Mike (VERY well stated, Mike). BTW, that's two people now that were thinking Zoot... ! Okay- that's IT, I'd better shut up.

Wow- I've been waiting for a CD version of this for a LONG time. Thanks for the heads up, vibes

Kenny Burrell - Have Yourself A Soulful Christmas Vince Guaraldi - Charlie Brown Christmas Ron Eschete - Christmas Impressions All i can think of right now...

VERY cool idea, Mr. Gould.

I would have to go with "Classic"... ... Bossa Nova, 1958 - 1965-ish B)

... and they're BASTARDS!

Hmmm.... Yeah, just "Hmmm". I'll have to leave it at that!

Thanks for the nice comments.

:rsmile:

Hi Bob, One of your PM's DID get through, but I haven't been able to get a reply to go through. ======== Edit: Bob, I recieved your latest PM, letting me know that mine did reach you after all. Very good then- I hope you are able to get in touch with Eddie and purchase something from him. You won't be disappointed.

I just wanted to jump in and say that I have no problem at all with this. Sure, I'd love it if everybody dug every track, but I'm more realistic than that, and as long as it's sincere and honest and not nasty (no reason to expect that from anybody, as I currently have no running feuds with anyone ), it's cool. So, by all means be critical of what you don't like. I actually agree with some of the specific criticisms, believe it or not. The flipside of this might be that I hope I can feel free to challenge some of the negative comments if I feel they're not completely well-founded in my opinion. I think some of my comments in this regard will have to do with the guitarists, because that's one area where I feel I'm qualified to say I've had more experience than most jazz fans. I think I might be able to share some knowledge in this area that could help some folks out in terms of appreciating jazz guitarists in general. More on this later... I'm going to try to jot down some topics for discussion in a word-processing document that I'm saving for later. Oh- I'm still having a blast reading everyone's comments. I hope that everybody that received a disc will post something, even if they feel too stumped to comment on every track. Please don't be shy about making any sort of comments that come to mind. Participation is what makes this whole thing worthwhile! Thanks- Jim