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Gheorghe
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Posts posted by Gheorghe
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At one point, they were playing some burning ass tune with lots of changes. During his solo Coleman starting modulating around into
all sorts of keys (something he's known for) and Kenny Barron was just kind of laughing and shaking his head while trying to keep up.
It was pretty funny and keep up he did!
bigtiny
Yeah, that´s the way how he did it. A topnotch musician, he had it all.
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I first heard him on that Miles at Antibes album and it became one of my favourite albums. I saw him once in Vienna around 1979 with about the same group as his famous "Amsterdam at Dark". Hilton Ruiz on piano, Billy Higgins on drums (I was a huge Billy Higgins fan) and I think Ray Drummond on bass instead of Sam Jones who is on the album.
George Colman was in his prime when I saw him, like everybody else I saw during that time. All those great tenor players, Joe Henderson, George Coleman, Archie Shepp, Pharoah Sanders, Sonny Rollins, Dexter Gordon, Johnny Griffin, they all were in their late forties, early fifties and playing on the peak of their powers, so I really heard some music.
I remember George Coleman played a lot of music from his "Amsterdam" album, his latest album, and he was great, and his sidemen too. And he was such a nice person.
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As far as people he didn't ever record with, it's hard for me to say. I think a session with Getz
Miles did a session with Stan Getz in 1950: Miles, J.J. Johnson, Stan Getz, Tadd Dameron, Gene Ramey and Art Blakey : Conception, Max is Makin Wax, Woody´n You, Ray´s Idea, and Old Black Magic (with Stan Getz featured)
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In the mid sixties: Maybe Jackie McLean, Andrew Hill, Roy Haynes?
And about Miles after his comeback 1981: Well I like that band with Mike Stern, and I´m not necessarly a patriot who would push people just because they from my country, but .... the austrian guitarist Karl Ratzer.....he got it all, I often wondered how the Miles from the early 80´s would have liked him.
Dave Liebman, well he was with Miles in 1973/74, but I would have liked to see him back with Miles after his comeback, at least for a period....
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I must admit I didn´t buy yet the Miles Davis/Jimmy Forrest "Live at the Barrel". I should purchase it eventually.
Well, about "Wahoo", that´s like most bop tunes, they are lines written on chord changes of older tunes or standard tunes.
Some say, "Wahoo" is Benny Harris´ tune based on Perdido. Other´s say it´s Tadd´s riff on "Perdido". Anyway, Miles played it as "Wahoo" on the 1949 Paris Festival "Miles Davis-Tadd Dameron Quintet". Many bop musicians played it as "wahoo", like Bird with Fats and Bud at Birdland 1950, or Tadd Dameron with Allen Eager and Kai Winding at Royal Roost 1948.
Later, some mainstream musicians, who played "Perdido" , used the "wahoo" theme at the ending instead of repeating the original theme. I saw Oscar Peterson do that (I´m not Petersons´biggest fan, but when he ended Perdido with "Wahoo" I thought "wow, he starts to flirt with bop?"
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My interest in Mobley was what drew me to the old Blue Note board in the first place, he was my doorway into the label. Why? His playing connects with me, simple as that.
Same with me!
Hank Mobley is one of my favourites, I´d go so far as saying he´s my idea of a tenor player. But......not for Miles, especially during the things that would settle in the 60s.
A player like Hank Mobley would have been ideal for the Miles of 1950,51, when he played a strong bop oriented horn and sometimes had Lestorian players like Brew Moore or Stan Getz together with J.J. Johnson as a line up.
And yeah, sure I also have the book about Hank Mobley, but there could be space for another book.
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Well, Neloms, Walrath, Ford, that was his last working band, from 1976 on. During 76, the last personnel change was Bob Neloms who replaced Danny Mixon on piano. This working band did the whole touring from later 1976 until late 77. But as I always told, it´s a drag that his studio recordings were so overproduced, and the solo space was left much more to the other big names who where on the record.
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I´d say I´m really a be bop fan, but not only.... . But thinking of be bop, that´s what Miles did in the 40´s. I´d say the last vintage bop sessions of Miles are those Birdland live recordings from 1951 with J.J. Johnson, Rollins or Jaws on ts, stuff like that.
But see, Miles never stood still or looked back. To dig Miles means to dig the whole developement of jazz.
Miles, after his first great quintet with Trane, with Philly J.J. etc. had started modal jazz around 1958. He had to look for musicians that can inspire him, not to make him look back.
The blackhawk recordings are nice to listen, and Hank Mobley is one of my favourite players, I love everything he did, but not for Miles! It was not a happy period for Miles before 1963. You can almost feel how he is bored, musically uninspired.
How can you say Miles went nuts after that? You miss a lot of good, exiting stuff. Anyway, if "nuts" means to you "new thing", "free jazz", "avantgarde" ....anyway....that´s something Miles never did.
With George Coleman and later Wayne Shorter, with Herbie, Ron, and above all Tony Williams, Miles got some of the greatest musicians ever....
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Thanks, Marcello!
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Yes, that two albums from Switzerland, Lausanne and Geneva. It´s really great Bud Powell, this and the "Blakey in Paris 1959" and "Essen Festival All Stars" . If I listen to that Geneva album and to the worst tracks from "Golden Circle" especially on the limited edition of 3 C Ds "Budism" it seems that Bud still could be the greatest of all the time, if the vibrations were rite. If something hurted or annoyed him, he would loose all his musical energy....
But all that great albums from some happy moments during his European stay from ´59-´64´don´t have much to do with that album "Up´s n Downs". That´s another story. I got that album to and have been listenig much to it. I got the original Mainstream LP and later a CD with the two bonus tracks "No Smokin" and "I´m alway chasing after rainbows". And it has some studio photographs, you can see Diz on it, and Stollmann the producer, and Rashied Ali and Scott Holt, who are the "unknown" bassist and drummer.
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yeah, I remember Rollins´ collapse. Thanks God he is still there and I´m lucky I saw him live.
but back to my questions:
I asked if somebody knows more: That discography ends in july 77 and that must be incomplete, I´m sure! Mingus also played in Tunisia, it´s where he got his inspiration for "Three Worlds of Drums", and he did his last tour through Arizona in october 77. Sue Mingus mentioned it in her book, and Brian Priestly mentions it in his book about Mingus.
And I remember a tour with the line up with the electric guitars to promote his "Three Or Four Shades of Blues" album was already scheduled and we were lookin forward to it, when it was chancelled (November 30 1977).
So, what´s about Mingus´ activities between the last European concert and before his album with Hamp from november 6th 1977 (supposed to be the last time he played bass) ????????
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What an amazing time you must have had, Gheorghe. Sounds great. I like the "European avant-garde" stuff as well as bop and hardbop (but sometimes the mood strikes for one or the other).
Kleinschuster's sextet was pretty fine IMO, but definitely "of its time."
Hi, yeah of course I saw and heard some great stuff.
About an austrian trombone player you mentioned: Good trombone, sure. Saw him play "Move" once at a pretty fast tempo. But if I remember rite, it was in 1973 at "Stadthalle" when Miles was doin his stuff he did then and some of those "local big names" would boo him out (exactly at a point when there was a more quiet and lyrical passage, which determined Miles to spit on the floor and leave the stage not to come back) . We all hoped Miles would return but I think it was enough for him. It was just a drag how they put him down only because he managed to go into some directions, and the most ridiculous thing was that those guys later tried to copy some of his stuff, trying to play "jazz rock" at the clubs......
Miles´midseventies stuff was heavy for me and I must admit I feel more comfortable if I listen to his acoustic or semi acoustic stuff, but at least I was hip enough to listen to it, to buy that stuff and hear some things......
Back to Tyner: Yeah! It must have been Fambrough on the bass and Ronnie Burrage on drums. Now I got the line up I was lookin for. Thanks!!!!
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Rite now I remember they also played a short version of "Wee" (Griffin). About the broadcast, is it possible it was "Jazz mit Erich Kleinschuster" (the austrian trombonist).... I´m not his biggest fan, especially how he did that broadcast, well he´s not as hip as "Symphony Sid" *smile*.....
About "Wee". Anyway, Griffin loved to play fast rhythm-change based tunes, Wee was a favourite of his.
And now I remember why I know they played it. I listened to the broadcast, taped it and was quite annoyed when Mr. Kleinschuster made his anouncements or comments and the last thing he said was " ...jetzt läuft dahinten noch Wiiiii (that´s how he pronounced "Wee") ......"
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King ubu:
yes, that might be the exact track list from Johnny Griffin. Anyway, Autumn Leaves was the first tune, the second tune was a 3/4 time vehicle, and announced as "slightly viennese" because of the waltz metro. Griffin seemed to like that gimmick, because I remember he announced 3/4 tunes played in my hometown as "slightly viennese" also on other occasions. And the last tune was the at least 20 minutes long "soft and furry" , that´s sure, I remember that. And I already knew it from the Steeplechase album "Blues for Harvey".
The personnel from the guitar -vibes duo is correct. I didn´t want to mention names because I don´t want to be killed if I say I didn´t dig it.
My "fault" in general is, maybe I´m not "sophisticated" enough for "european jazz". Don´t misunderstand me, I love so many aspects of jazz, but some kind of it, mostly the more "cerebral" stuff just doesn´t make me happy.
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Yeah, still great memories about that one spring festival 1980.
My long-time memoriy´s better than my short-time memoriy.
It was like „heaven on earth“ especially that month:
The 3 day´s festival at the auditory of a Viennes University had on it´s schedule:
On the first day: Sam Rivers Trio, Johnny Griffin Quartet (with Ronnie Matthews, Ray Drummond, Kenny Washington), Chet Baker Quartet (drumless, vibes Wolfgang Lackerschmied, with piano possibly Phil Marcovici ….I don´t remember exaxtly) .
On the second day:
Mel Lewis Big Band (with musical director Bob Brookmeyer, I don´t want to put it down, but somehow it didn´t exite me the way it went 2 years before with Thad Jones still involved.)
Max Roach Quartet (with Cecil Bridgewater, Odeon Pope, Calvin Hill), I remember a fast version of „It´s Time“, a Billie Harper composition „Peaceful Heart“ and an extended version of „6 bits Blues“.
Sun Ra Archestra: Great, really great, I remember the vocal contributions of June Tyson, the boppish Lady Bird/Half Nelson, and some Fletcher Henderson arrangements. Standing Ovations…..
Third Day:
First some european stuff (duo guitar-vibes), sure some intellectual stuff, but sorry to say not my alley
McCoy Tyner Sextet great with the now identified violin player. I ´m not so hip to violin players but that was some great music
Dexter Gordon (with Kirk Leightsey, John Heard, Eddie Gladden: Needless to say, the master himself at the peak of his power and popularity, he sure played for about 2 hours, I remember he played a tune from his homecoming album and announced it as a „CBS plagiat“, never lost his humour, other tune: Fried Bananas, etc.
And dig that: Few days before the festival, Sonny Stitt was in town at „Porr House“
And few days after the festival Dizzy was here.
Did it really happen? Such great times, and I was lucky do be there…..
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I got to get that album "Horizon"
Anyway right now I build up a collection of albums recorded by the many real artists I saw live, records mostly from about the time I heard them.
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Definitely John Blake. Can picture him now up on the bandstand in that white suit ! Saw that band with Blake around that period a couple of times (around 1981/82) and it was absolutely smokin'. Never heard Tyner play better than back then. Joe Ford completed the front line. John Lee was on bass and Wilby Fletcher on drums I think (had recently replaced Sonship Theus).
I think the band I saw was a quintet though - don't recall George Adams being in the front line (it was at Ronnie Scotts). They played several of the tunes from 'Horizon'.
To this day, I still rate hearing this band as one of the finest performances I've ever witnessed.
Thank you Pete C. and sidewinder!
Yeah, John Blake. And I didn´t know who had completed the front line. But I´m sure on bass was Avery Sharpe, I can´t remember the drummer.
But as you say it: This Band was really smoking. Imagine: That was the last day of a 3 days festival (Vienna Jazz Spring March 80) and on schedule on that last evening was first the McCoy Tyner Sextet and then Dexter Gordon.
I didn´t see albums with that sextet then, the big runner in record stores was "Super Trios" which I also love.
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I remember I saw McCoy live in Vienna (march 1980) with a sextet featuring a violin player. But I don´t know who it was.
Does someone have informations about that special group McCoy Tyner had during that period?
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Since I finally got myself an LP player again, I can listen to all them wonderful LPs I had collected, among them - needless to say - those two Impulse.
Many years I also have wondered why there´s no CD reissue of it. It seems "Impulse" doesn´t have someone like Rudy VanGelder, too much stuff has never been reissued on CD. Anyway, now I can listen to them again.
"Crisis" actually was my second or third album of Ornette Coleman (after "The Shape of Jazz to come" and "Empty Foxhole") and it was much harder to listen to me than the before mentioned, because there´s no straight ahead part, on which I could have relaxed, just to "hold on". But I realized it´s fantastic music and it helped me to learn more about free jazz, to learn to listen it without missing that 4/4 time.
I don´t know about Denardo bashing. I liked him from the first moment on, on "Foxhole" he even swings on "Good Old Days" and other tunes.
"Ornette at 12" I got a little later but I like it very much also, especially the kind of free "ballad" titled "New York" or something like that.
I think this composition from "Ornette at 12" was the theme for one later Ornette album only for strings and Denardo on drums, titled "Prime Design, Time Design" or something like that. It might be from 1983 and I loved that string version of the tune from Ornette at 12, though usually I´m not familiar to string quartets.
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Thanks for your answer!
So many live recordings, you are lucky!
Well, I also have been told that he had slowed down at that period. As I said, I saw him live in january 1983 but don´t have no live recordings. I didn´t know he still played in july 1984.
Do you remember what tunes he played? There was very little press about him during that time.
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From 1980-1983 I heard Dexter Gordon quite often with his working quartet with Kirk Lightsey, Eddie Gladden and (first ) John Heard and (later) David Eubanks.
The last time I saw him was in 1983 on an occasion that was titled „be bop supernight“ with first Johnny Griffin quartet, Woody Shaw quinted and Dexter Gordon. It was supposed that all the three leaders would play together at the end but that didn´t happen.
Though Dexter on the earlier occasions from 1980-1982 always was in top form and played for almost 2 hours, on the 1983 occasion he only played 4 tunes (Secret Love, More Than You Know, a quite slow Good Bait and Jelly Jelly Jelly on which he „sang“ (with a very hoarse voice, not as good as on Swiss Nights) into the closer LTD.
I remember he came on stage only after the rhythm section had played three tunes.
I heard he continued touring, I read a long review about a club date in Germany, where the first set was played without him, and later he was not in top form but recovered and played for two hours.
I also read he had an extended gig at „Rick´s Cafe“ in Chicago, followed by Billy Eckstine.
What happened after that? I read he played in Finland early in 1984 but became ill, and had to play in Marocco, where he actually arrived but I don´t know what happened.
Who has seen Dexter live from 1983 – 1984 and how did he sound?
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Music That Makes Your Wife Dance...that's a good idea for a thread of its own...
started that thread at your suggestion.
on "miscellaneous music"....
0 replies......why?
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The discography ends with the festival gigs from july 77 from various places in Europe like Italy, France and Spain. but I think Mingus also played in Tunisia during the summer of 1977. That´s where he got some of his inspirations for his final work "Three Worlds of Drums".
And didn´t he tour Arizona in autumn 1977? It is reported that his last concerts took place somewhere near his birthplace. He also intended to visit the "Mingus Mountain". It´s reported Mingus played one of his last concerts in Boulder and wanted to do an encore on piano, but as he sat down and wanted to play, the guy from the soundboard had started a tape of some Wheather Report recording, so Mingus left the stage.
No information or track list about those dates. I couldn´t find further informations.
What´s sure is, that after the recording date with Lionel Hampton in nov. 1977 Mingus had planned a tour to Europe with Larry Coryell, Phillip Catherine and John Scofield to promote the "Three Shades of Blues" album. I remember it already was announced to public in the German Jazz Magazin "Jazz Podium" but had to be cancelled.
so, I think the discography isn´t complete.
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This talk about the Eckstine band...how about the Earl Hines band w/Bird & Sarah Vaughn? Everybody, even the most experty experts, says no recording exist. Period.
Yeah, I also wondered how it might sound. Has something to do with one of those recording bans during 1943...
Addison Farmer
in Artists
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Car accidence. That´s what I heard.
By the way: Another bass player from the Farmer family is Julius Farmer (el-b), I saw him once on stage in 1979 with Larry Coryell. I think he was announced as a nephew of Art Farmer.