David Ayers

Chuck At the time of the definitive/mingus scandal did you go into the legal question (which I raised above) about the possibility of copyright in remasters? Also, as far as (what may be) a clone of European provenance like the Patton is concerned, what is the legal position regarding its sale in the US? With the Mingus, if Definitive tried to sell it in the states Uptown could jump on them, right? Or not? All, BTW I have no difficulty rejecting an unethical product even if it is legal - I just notice how the accusations fly in these cases and I am aware that they haven't always been investigated. Have Revenant commented on this or taken any action, do we know? I would really like it if someone could clear up the legal points I raised in my previous post (above) just for my curiosity.

It is also possible that the labels are doing it themselves. That said, I tried to figure out the law on this by looking at UK and US legislation. I have no idea what precedents there are, but my reading of the law in each case is that it is not possible to claim copyright in a remastering. Once the original recording is out of copyright, that follows for any remastering, since it is only the original which is subject to copyright. Or so it would seem, except that I note the whole point of US remasters is to declare a new (p) date , i.e. date of copyright in the sound recording. I don't know if this works legally or not but it looks like it might. I doubt that the law will be changed to reflect copyright in remastering. When US legislation was framed in 1971 it was in response to pressure from major elements in the industry which persuaded Congress that 100,000,000s of dollars were being lost to pirating and home taping.

It must be clear from what I have already said that I think it would be wrong. But I don't automatically draw the conclusion that this is what happened, as you seem to. People who have compared them find the JSP sounds better, and do not make the claim you are making. So for me the jury is out. By the way the JSP is not the first UK issue of Patton. Catfish records did a 3-Cd set a few years ago, including rare material. People in Europe can collect records too, whether or not they are released here.

The amazon reviewer claims that the sound of the revenant and the JSP are dramatically different. Even if that is not true, I don't agree that you can accuse people of a crime and then challenge them to disprove it. The burden of proof is on the prosecution. PS To save on gruffness I mailed John Stedman to ask him. Let's see what he says.

This material is public domain in Europe. Is there evidence that the remasterings in the Patton case or the Berigan case are stolen? If so, it would be good to hear it. As things stand, the tendency to denounce all European issues as thefts is not helpful (and potentially libellous). I would like to know for sure, what is copied and what not, and I won't take the copied material. But to do that I would like to have accurate information, if anyone can help with that.

I can see why people selling records might want customers to shut up, stop whining, and hand over the money. But it's not compulsory. As it happens, photographs are expensive to license, and a good part of the cost of hearing the music goes to pay for visual and textual production. Apologists for sloppiness may be thought to be sloppy. If well recognised historic photos appeared reversed, the editors would be judged incompetent. In fact, the same applies when the photographs are not well known. These sets are offered as historic documents. As I noted, the DG sets which lack the visuals cost less then half the EMI (sorry, Mosaic) sets. The price should and must reflect the quality. These mistakes are careless editing. The line that we should be grateful for whatever we get in whatever form it comes cuts no ice with me.

No nothing missing on the Eldridge that I know of. I was generalizing about recent issues. There was a query on the completeness of the Mulligan set which is unresolved. I notice that Deutsche Grammophon have started to imitate the Mosaic model with a series of historic classical sets which are editorially good if less lavish, and come out much cheaper than the comparable deluxe jazz set.

Am I the only person to feel whose enthusiasm is dampened by reversed photos, damaged source tapes and missing tracks? I just feel that if the marketing pitch is quality, detail and care then those things should be 100% present. Maybe you guys are more tolerant than I am, or maybe its just old age. These sets cost an average $100 each. Maybe I expect too much? There just seems to be evidence of carelessness...

Be sure to let us know.

Thanks for the input. I hadn't heard of anyone being ill, but I had noticed the online site had vanished. It sounds ominous. If I find out anything else I'll post it.

I called in Mole just before closing yesterday and found the stock seriously run down. Maybe they had had a good day? Or maybe they are in difficulty? Maybe this is the run up to the January sale?? Or none of the above? Anyone in the UK know what is going on? If anything?

The cover photograph is a big feature of these sets. I really hope Mosaic correct it.

First, Proper and History are unrelated. Second, Proper boxes are credited as "compiled and prduced for release by Joop Visser" and "digitally remastered by Peter Rynston". That, plainly, does not tell the whole story.

I really like this LP. Those who want a copy should order the JRVG from Hiroshi Tanno NOW! It is good clear remaster, though the balance gives the trumpet too little prominence. You can certainly hear the bass though...

I wonder of Mosaic actually ran out of sets, or were contractually obligated to stop selling them? If the latter, I bet they would sell a copy over the phone.

Mathis der Maler. Again. Hey why couldn't I 'edit' my post to correct my previous wrong spelling?

Ohhhhhh.... silly me. Serves me right for reading all the old rubbish that gets trawled up.

Didn't we have a whole thing here from mnytime's brother saying he was in a coma and about to die? I can't find any of it now as it seems to have been deleted. What was the outcome of all of that? No-one seems to have made any further reference to it.

OK I will admit to being more of a skimmer than a deep reader of this board.... BUT, someone has to help me out here. How come mnytime is posting here months after we all attended his funeral? No doubt this has all been discussed but I missed it and I feel a need to know...

Nice one. Thanks. Hey you got me going with the lurid promises of over-the-topness.

its gone...... hey why isn't there a little crying smiley?!?

It shows you how close Unitarianism is to being secular! I came out as an Orthodox Quaker (which I am NOT...!). Or maybe I am... I believe in Belief-o-Matic!

Too too good...

Here is the full list of the current ongoing JRVG batch. The numbers are the original BN number, not the new TOCJ number. For those who don't know... the quickest, cheapest and best way to get these is from Hiroshi Tanno at Early Records. You can order by email and pay by Paypal. He charges shipping at cost. June 25, 2003 4001 Newk's Time / Sonny Rollins 4183 Talkin' About / Grant Green 4252 Sweet Honey Bee / Duke Pearson 4229 Got A Good Thing Goin' / John Patton 4060 At The Half Note Café Vol.1 / Donald Byrd 4061 At The Half Note Café Vol.2 / Donald Byrd 4227 Mode For Joe / Joe Henderson 4159 Judgement! / Andrew Hill 4085 Ready For Freddie / Freddie Hubbard 4129 Never Let Me Go / Stanley Turrentine July 23, 2003 1575 City Lights / Lee Morgan 1547 A Date With Jimmy Smith Vol.1 1548 A Date With Jimmy Smith Vol.2 4033 Soundin' Off / Dizzy Reece 4220 The Cape Verdean Blues / Horace Silver 4145 Shoutin' / Don Wilkerson 4174 The Way I Feel / Big John Patton 4277 Serenade To A Soul Sister / Horace Silver 4280 Midnight Creeper / Lou Donaldson 4260 Conquistador / Cecil Taylor Aug. 27, 2003 1561 Palo Congo / Sabu 4415 The Final Come Down / Grant Green 4141 Rockin' The Boat / Jimmy Smith 4200 Softly As A Summer Breeze / Jimmy Smith 4121 Elder Don / Don Wilkerson 4158 Good Move / Freddie Roach 4120 It Just Got To Be / The Three Sounds 4197 Out Of This World / The Three Sounds 4188 I'm Tryin' To Get Home / Donald Byrd 4118 Free Form / Donald Byrd Sept. 2003 4230 A Caddy For Daddy / Hank Mobley 4310 Goin' West / Grant Green 4106 Let Freedom Ring / Jackie McLean 4131 Silver's Serenade / Horace Silver 4238 Mustang / Donald Byrd 4172 Breaking Point / Freddie Hubbard 4326 Move Your Hand / Lonnie Smith 4136 African High Life / Solomon Ilori 1525 The Incredible Jimmy Smith At The Organ Vol.3 4164 Prayer Meetin' / Jimmy Smith Oct. 2003 4083 Dexter Calling / Dexter Gordon 4050 Home Cookin' / Jimmy Smith 4100 Jimmy Smith Plays Fats Waller 4092 The Golden Eight / Kenny Clarke 4342 Green Is Beautiful / Grant Green 4087 Let Me Tell You 'Bout It / Leo Parker 4189 Inner Urge / Joe Henderson 4177 Some Other Stuff / Grachan Moncur III 4214 Down With It / Blue Mitchell 4273 Hi Voltage / Hank Mobley Nov. 2003 4335 The Sixth Sense / Lee Morgan 4079 Gravy Train / Lou Donaldson 4144 Little Johnny C / Johnny Coles 4096 That's Where It's At / Stanley Turrentine 4165 Destination Out / Jackie McLean 1587 Back On The Scene / Bennie Green 4104 Buhaina's Delight / Art Blakey & The Jazz Mssengers 4170 Free For All / Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers 4323 Merry Ole Soul / Duke Pearson 1556 The Sounds Of Jimmy Smith Dec. 2003 1572 Bone & Bari / Curtis Fuller Vol.2 4257 Boss Horn / Blue Mitchell 4297 Schizophrenia / Wayne Shorter 4153 Evolution / Grachan Moncur III 4307 Time For Tyner / McCoy Tyner 4196 Blue Spirits / Freddie Hubbard 4239 Let 'Em Roll / "Big" John Patton 4334 Moon Rappin' / Brother Jack McDuff 1599 Soul Stirrin' / Bennie Green 4191 Wahoo / Duke Pearson Jan. 2004 4010 Walkin' & Talkin' / Bennie Green 4353 The Song Of Singing / Chick Corea 4178 The Thing To Do / Blue Mitchell 4128 Mo' Greens Please / Freddie Roach 4207 The Night Of The Cookers Vol.1 / Freddie Hubbard 4208 The Night Of The Cookers Vol.2 / Freddie Hubbard 4322 Down Home Style / Brother Jack McDuff 4259 Blackjack / Donald Byrd 4253 Street Of Dreams / Grant Green 4193 Indestructible / Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers Feb. 2004 1517 Patterns In Jazz / Gil Melle 4125 Good Gracious / Lou Donaldson 4218 Action / Jackie McLean 4290 Think / Ronnie Smith 4151 Black Fire / Andrew Hill 4160 Smoke Stack / Andrew Hill 4077 Doin' Allright / Dexter Gordon 4148 Two Souls In One / George Braith 4171 Extention / George Braith 4344 How Insensitive / Duke Pearson Mar. 2004 4176 One Flight Up / Dexter Gordon 4288 Reach Out! / Hank Mobley 4072 Feelin' Good / The Three Sounds 4313 Turning Point / Ronnie Smith 4113 Down To Earth / Freddie Roach 4245 Like Someone In Love / Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers 4161 Soul Stream / George Braith 4166 In 'N Out / Joe Henderson 1563 Jimmy Smith Plays Pretty Just For You 4275 Tender Moments / McCoy Tyner

The JRVG of this will be issued in December - maybe an alternative?